Vikings Message Board.Com

I'm sure this will be a heated topic, but here's what I think:

Switching to the 3-4 would be catastrophic in the short term for our defense. Many of our best players would be nearly useless in the 3-4, especially in the front 7. Our LB's are already among the worst in the league, and switching would necessitate us getting another starting quality LB, essentially making us need to get 3 starting linebackers for next season. The D line is also built differently as well. We don't have a nose tackle that could take over that position, and I don't think that Floyd or Williams are built to play the ends in this scheme. Nearly all of our DE's would be useless, with the exception of Everson Griffen (maybe). I'm not as well versed in the secondary in the 3-4, so I won't comment on that, but I just think it would be too arduous and painful to switch at this time.

We've seen that the 4-3 can work, and we've been successful with it. It's just a matter of fixing our defense. I'm not sure whether it's a personnel issue or a gameplanning one, but something is clearly broken. Perhaps we understated the value of Antoine Winfield to this defense. He was a sure tackler and one hell of a football player. On top of that, a lot of key players are getting older. Jared Allen, Kevin Williams, and Chad Greenway have been the heart of this defense for several years, but they're starting to show their age. Combined with that, we have a LOT of very young players on defense. I've liked what I've seen out of a few of them, and there are reasons to have hope for the future of this team.

That said, It took a freak year from a freak running back to get the vikings where they were last year. Our expectations were too high coming into this season, especially with a solid draft from the front office. This team is in full rebuild mode, and we will likely see Ponder exit after this season (maybe even Frazier and Musgrave as well). There will be growing pains. It will be frustrating. All-in-all, though, it looks like the vikings are finally trying to build the team the way they should have been for the past 20 years, instead of the "win now" mentality.

I don't see why we need to change?

Jim Johnson ran a high pressure defense in Philly during his tenure there (RIP) and he ran it out of a 4-3 base. Our current coaching doesn't like blitzing and wants to get it's pressure from the front 4. We also seem to want to play a ton of zone instead of man coverage.

IMO this is a philosophy issue more than anything else.

I've heard things like "Leslie runs Cover-2 because he hates giving up big plays". All that system does is give up big plays!

All in all I actually really like our defense, we've been forcing a good amount of turn overs and that's huge. At the same time of course we're under performing because we don't have the personnel to be better. Robinson has given up 23 passes on 24 targets, sanford isn't a good player, and we have no line backers so obviously it's going to be pretty shaky there. I think it's pretty clear though that our d-line is decent and built for the 4-3, harrison smith is making a ton of plays as a 4-3 cover 2 safety. We just need some better LB's and some picks to pan out like xhavier rhodes and I think this defense as a scheme / whole is fine.

Are Robinson's numbers really that bad? OMG...

This AJ Jefferson got benched after one bad play. Why isn't Robinson getting a similar treatment? For that matter, why did the draft Rhodes if they are going to have him ride the bench? This stinks of "Frasier's Guy" syndrome just like the Marvin Mitchell thing stinks of it.

Not necessary to switch, but I would like a more aggressive D. This team never has the LBs for cover 2.

mansquatch wrote:Are Robinson's numbers really that bad? OMG...

This AJ Jefferson got benched after one bad play. Why isn't Robinson getting a similar treatment?

Jefferson sprained his ankle. That's why he was benched.

With those stats, it hard to believe that Xavier Rhodes isn't starting over Josh Robinson. Then again, maybe Rhodes would be even worse.

When? Right now? No way.

After the season when hopefully Zygi finally blows the entire thing up? Maybe. Rex has been a good DC, he runs a 34. Why not?

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:You can't just change your defense mid-season.

We don't have the personnel for it either.

This.

How can we run a 3-4 when we don't even have two decent linebackers?

Eli wrote:With those stats, it hard to believe that Xavier Rhodes isn't starting over Josh Robinson. Then again, maybe Rhodes would be even worse.

I wonder how many of the catches Robinson has allowed have been from the slot and how many were caught when he was playing outside.

For those who missed it, in the OP GBFavreFan asked if they should switch to a 3-4 next season, not this year.

Basically if Vic Fangio (49ers D Coordinator) became our coach and drafted the right players for it...then yes. 49ers are good at executing it because Justin Smith is almost impossible to bring down and Aldon is a speedster with a gigantic wing span for arms.

mansquatch wrote:Are Robinson's numbers really that bad? OMG...

This AJ Jefferson got benched after one bad play. Why isn't Robinson getting a similar treatment? For that matter, why did the draft Rhodes if they are going to have him ride the bench? This stinks of "Frasier's Guy" syndrome just like the Marvin Mitchell thing stinks of it.

Jefferson was burned on two consecutive plays and as Jim mentioned, wasn't really benched but was taken out because of injury. He still played but only in the dime package. The Viking's base 43 defense started Cook opposite of Robinson. When Cook went down, Jefferson came in, it was only in nickel packages that Rhodes seems to see the field. I think what may be happening is the Vikings have two guys (Rhodes and Robinson) who are not comfortable playing in the slot. Neither played there very much in college and it's a very different coverage. Robinson seems like the more likely fit due to his speed but sometimes that's just not enough. Last year Jefferson seemed to have decent coverage skills but his tackling is really poor. Maybe that's why he got the nod over Rhodes, I do find it puzzling that a 1st round pick is that far down the depth chart.

S197 wrote:Jefferson was burned on two consecutive plays and as Jim mentioned, wasn't really benched but was taken out because of injury. He still played but only in the dime package. The Viking's base 43 defense started Cook opposite of Robinson. When Cook went down, Jefferson came in, it was only in nickel packages that Rhodes seems to see the field. I think what may be happening is the Vikings have two guys (Rhodes and Robinson) who are not comfortable playing in the slot. Neither played there very much in college and it's a very different coverage. Robinson seems like the more likely fit due to his speed but sometimes that's just not enough. Last year Jefferson seemed to have decent coverage skills but his tackling is really poor. Maybe that's why he got the nod over Rhodes, I do find it puzzling that a 1st round pick is that far down the depth chart.

As I understand it, he's #2 on the depth chart behind Robinson. In nickel packages, when Robinson moves into the slot, Rhodes comes on the field. The coaches have said they want to keep him at left cornerback for now rather than asking him to play both sides so that's why Jefferson and Sherels were backing up Cook. That makes it look like Rhodes is behind all of those players on the depth chart but it's actually just that they want him to play the left side. The wisdom of that approach is debatable (like everything else!).

I think you're right on target regarding what they're doing with the slot position. It probably makes sense to keep Rhodes on the outside anyway since he's a very physical player and slot receivers line up behind the line of scrimmage.