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Most people seem to lack faith in Ponder because of his arm. In this day and age people think you need a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning arm to be successful. But I was looking at some videos of Fran Tarkenton. I wasn't born in the Tarkenton era so the only way I can inform myself is by watching old clips. Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auZY7RByfmg

In that video, I learn that people accused Tarkenton of having a weak arm, and that the only reason he was half as good as he was is because of his ability to scramble around the field and keep plays alive. Later in the video, I learn that during his comeback to the Vikings he took the short pass and turn it into a winning formula.

Im not saying that Ponder will ever be on Tarkenton's level but I see some similarities. They both dont have the strongest arm and they both are effective when scrambling around the pocket. Now I doubt Frazier would like Ponder dancing around the field like Tarkenton did but I think he is able to scramble enough to make a play. And Fran Tarken agrees if you look at the 4:00 mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCYc6E4ILdc

Moral of the story is that you dont need a strong arm to win in this league. When you have the athletic ability to move around like Ponder can, you can still make some big plays. Guys like Brady and Manning have big arms and good awareness but that skill makes up for them not being able to extend plays moving out the pocket. And for guys like Ponder, who may not have the biggest arm, are able to atleast extend plays with their feet while still looking down and field with the chance to hit an open target.

Sow do you guys think about Ponder so far and his potential??

It's about time we had a thread on Ponder's potential


The question I have is if anyone thinks that Tark would have as much success in todays game as he did in his own era. My first inclination is to think he wouldn't have been able to stay on the field due to getting injured.

There's a big difference between designed roll-outs/bootlegs and scrambling. Ponder does one well, while the other not so much.

I found this nugget, which I posted in another thread:

Ponder - most designed roll-outs last yr and QB rating a superb 104.6 but when scrambling QB Rating = 17.1 (only Vick worse)

With that in mind, Ponder shows very little comparisons to Tark. He really doesn't scramble much, and if he does, he's historically not been effective doing it. Big Ben is another guy that I think is one of the league's better scramblers and Ponder isn't nearly as good as he is at extending plays and then hitting a receiver.

I wish we could put this issue of arm strength behind us. Ponder has shown he has an adequate arm. It's not a cannon, but it's not a considerable problem. His pre-snap reads, progressions, pocket-awareness/toughness, vision and decision-making are much more areas for concern -- though he has improved in most all of these categories over the last year, even considering his mid-season regression (which coincided with other team failings). They just need to keep their upward-trending direction as he also improves his consistency.

He IS athletic enough to tuck and make plays with his legs, which is a nice secondary trait. But I'm sure the Vikings would tell you they'd be just fine if Ponder never had to scramble during a game.

So while I accept your premise (you don't have to have a big arm to be a successful quarterback), it's my hope Ponder succeeds as a traditional pocket-passer that can occasionally pick up first downs with his legs as opposed to shifty scrambler. His fundamentals also suffer when scrambling (as opposed to in the pocket and designed roll-outs), which contribute to his inaccuracy.

Christ... Another Ponder thread?

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Christ... Another Ponder thread?

No one forced you to read it or any other Ponder threads you may have read in the past.

dead_poet wrote:There's a big difference between designed roll-outs/bootlegs and scrambling. Ponder does one well, while the other not so much.

I found this nugget, which I posted in another thread:
With that in mind, Ponder shows very little comparisons to Tark. He really doesn't scramble much, and if he does, he's historically not been effective doing it. Big Ben is another guy that I think is one of the league's better scramblers and Ponder isn't nearly as good as he is at extending plays and then hitting a receiver.

I wish we could put this issue of arm strength behind us. Ponder has shown he has an adequate arm. It's not a cannon, but it's not a considerable problem. His pre-snap reads, progressions, pocket-awareness/toughness, vision and decision-making are much more areas for concern -- though he has improved in most all of these categories over the last year, even considering his mid-season regression (which coincided with other team failings). They just need to keep their upward-trending direction as he also improves his consistency.

He IS athletic enough to tuck and make plays with his legs, which is a nice secondary trait. But I'm sure the Vikings would tell you they'd be just fine if Ponder never had to scramble during a game.

So while I accept your premise (you don't have to have a big arm to be a successful quarterback), it's my hope Ponder succeeds as a traditional pocket-passer that can occasionally pick up first downs with his legs as opposed to shifty scrambler. His fundamentals also suffer when scrambling (as opposed to in the pocket and designed roll-outs), which contribute to his inaccuracy.

Was this a designed scramble? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO6M58aT6nM And to Ponders credit, I dont know who all Tarkenton had to work with at WR but this years WR group may be the only legit WR group Ponder has had.

JEC334 wrote:Moral of the story is that you dont need a strong arm to win in this league. When you have the athletic ability to move around like Ponder can, you can still make some big plays. Guys like Brady and Manning have big arms and good awareness but that skill makes up for them not being able to extend plays moving out the pocket. And for guys like Ponder, who may not have the biggest arm, are able to atleast extend plays with their feet while still looking down and field with the chance to hit an open target.

Sow do you guys think about Ponder so far and his potential??

I think he has plenty of it.

Honestly, I think there are only two serious problems with Ponder's game: decision-making and mechanics. He improved in those areas down the stretch last season and hopefully, he'll continue to do that. There's obviously room for improvement in other areas as well but his arm is strong enough and personally, I don't think he has trouble going through his reads/progressions. Most of the issues in his game are pretty common for a young QB so hopefully, he'll become more patient, make better decisions, improve his footwork, etc. as he continues to play.

JEC334 wrote:Was this a designed scramble? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO6M58aT6nM

There's no such thing as a "designed scramble." Scrambling occurs on a broken play and/or when the QB is flushed out of the pocket. Designed roll-outs/bootlegs/QB runs are completely different. We're talking about different things if you're including tucking and running. To me, a scrambling QB is a guy that can extend plays with his feet, make defenders miss behind the LOS and then throw the ball downfield. Ponder can most certainly pick up yardage/first downs with his feet. But he also has, time and again, been brought down behind the line of scrimmage when attempting to do so (often I get the sense he thinks he can outrun the first one or two defensive linemen and misjudges how fast they are in the NFL).

And to Ponders credit, I dont know who all Tarkenton had to work with at WR but this years WR group may be the only legit WR group Ponder has had.

I'm not sure what this has to do with scrambling, perhaps the intelligence/athletic ability of the receiver to work back towards the QB and find an opening? That'd require quite a bit of film analysis to determine how each receiver is able to do that and compare that to last year.

On paper, this could be the most talented unit Ponder has played with, however I maintain it could be even or possibly worse than last year (depending on how you view Jennings compared to Harvin and the rawness/inexperience of Patterson and how, historically, rookie receivers -- even polished ones -- rarely catch more than 50 balls).

Again, I agree with your premise, but I don't think there's much similarity between Ponder/Tark. Tark had the uncanny ability to just dance around behind the line of scrimmage and somehow find an open receiver. Ponder doesn't do that often or well. What he does (perhaps better than Tark) is occasionally picking up yards on the ground after tucking it. But, despite how deceptively fast Ponder is, that shouldn't be something he relies on because IMO that's not THAT skilled at it (like Vick, Kaepernick, Wilson and a few others are).

Put another way, Big Ben is a "scrambling" QB. He's not a threat on the ground, though. Ponder > Big Ben in that area but Big Ben > Ponder in scrambling ability.

If Ponder is going to be a top-15 QB in this league, it's going to be from the pocket with accuracy, decision-making, poise, etc. with running a secondary attribute that he can rely on from time-to-time.

Ooh, a new Christian Ponder thread. Has it been a day already? How time flies...

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Christ... Another Ponder thread?

Eli wrote:Ooh, a new Christian Ponder thread. Has it been a day already? How time flies...

Sheesh, if you're not interested in a thread, just don't read it.

Is it really more interesting to discuss Mike Wobschall?

A thread about how they paint goal posts would be more interesting than the 500th Christian Ponder discussion this offseason. Seriously. What HASN'T been said yet?

Seriously guys. Is this not a Vikings message board? Isn't this where you discuss about Vikings football, players, and etc? Isn't Christian Ponder apart of the Vikings? Sue me for making another Ponder thread. I wasn't aware that we exceeded our amount of opportunities to create threads discussing Christian Ponder. And please call the cops on the person who put the gun to your head and force you to read this thread.

I am still relatively new here and during my time on this board I only seen 2 or 3 Ponder threads other than this one. And Im not a fan of digging up old threads that are buried deep into the archives. I have a suggestion to those who dislike Ponder topics. Instead of complaining about this being the x number of Ponder topics you've seen on here, then create your own topic that is not about Ponder and I will gladly give my two cents on it.

And unlike all the other Ponder threads that are usually anti-Ponder, this is a thread praising his athletic ability to make plays.

And if you can really count the number amount of Ponder threads you've seen on this board then maybe you need to take a break from the internet some. Some of us aren't on the computer long enough to catch all the threads about Ponder.

JEC334 wrote:And unlike all the other Ponder threads that are usually anti-Ponder, this is a thread praising his athletic ability to make plays.

It is?











F*CK

dead_poet wrote: It is?











F*CK

I dont know if you were being sarcastic or not. But whatever.