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That's the number of plays opposing defenses have run 8 man fronts against AD since he came into the league. That's just crazy.

from Seifert's blog:

A.D.: A few of you pointed out an omission from my earlier column: The impact of tailback Adrian Peterson's presence. Jennings noted in his news conference that all receivers dream of running routes against defenses who are focused on the running back. Jennings should see a significant difference. Since 2007, when Peterson entered the NFL, the Vikings have run a league-high 1,013 plays against defenses with at least eight men in the box, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The league average over that period is 634, and the Packers have run 569. That's a quantitative view of one advantage Jennings will have in Minnesota.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth


I'm really interested in how Musgrave evolves this offense this season.

The Breeze wrote:That's the number of plays opposing defenses have run 8 man fronts against AD since he came into the league. That's just crazy.

from Seifert's blog:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth


I'm really interested in how Musgrave evolves this offense this season.

That is mind blowing, I feel tired just envisioning the efforts of weary defenses.

As for the latter, I believe our offensive game plan will remain primarily the same, though with greater emphasis on the accuracy of Christian. Although we have recently acquired Jennings, I don't believe our pass:run ratio will alter dramatically, a solidified receiver corps will however hopefully improved the player of our QB.

Should anything happen to AD, it's imperative that we have an approach to fall back on. It's all too easy to become completely one dimensional.

ViciousBritishVike wrote:
That is mind blowing, I feel tired just envisioning the efforts of weary defenses.

As for the latter, I believe our offensive game plan will remain primarily the same, though with greater emphasis on the accuracy of Christian. Although we have recently acquired Jennings, I don't believe our pass:run ratio will alter dramatically, a solidified receiver corps will however hopefully improved the player of our QB.

Should anything happen to AD, it's imperative that we have an approach to fall back on. It's all too easy to become completely one dimensional.

I'm expecting a heck of a lot less 2-3yd passes as we go. Whether that's on CP or Musgrave, should be clear to me this year. I expect a guy like GJ to take full advantage of 8 man fronts and also be able to help CP noodle out his options on Blitzes.

If those kinds of things start to happen, the way AD is used will change. Not so much his carries but the lack of "obviousness" about when he's getting the rock. Play action, draws and delayed handoffs on 3rd downs etc. will be more effective and keep defenses on their heels.

There's been several takes on how GJ will be Ponder's best WR, from a route running POV, since he's been here. Same thing goes for Musgrave. I'm hoping this offense's predictability factor is drops significantly.

The Breeze wrote: I'm expecting a heck of a lot less 2-3yd passes as we go. Whether that's on CP or Musgrave, should be clear to me this year. I expect a guy like GJ to take full advantage of 8 man fronts and also be able to help CP noodle out his options on Blitzes.

If those kinds of things start to happen, the way AD is used will change. Not so much his carries but the lack of "obviousness" about when he's getting the rock. Play action, draws and delayed handoffs on 3rd downs etc. will be more effective and keep defenses on their heels.

There's been several takes on how GJ will be Ponder's best WR, from a route running POV, since he's been here. Same thing goes for Musgrave. I'm hoping this offense's predictability factor is drops significantly.

Definitely, the ability to stretch a defense should considerably improve and merely the presence of Jennings should, as you so correctly pointed out, detract from the obviousness and ensure that defenses must stay honest in accounting for players other than AD.

I view play action in particular as a perfect way to improve the confidence in Ponder's game, freeing up space on the field and allowing for easily completable passes. With this factor, hopefully other facets of his game will improve.

Not only that, I think the skeptics are underestimating the significance of this signing. Other than the fact that Greg's a viable threat, the impact off the ball, to the overall offensive approach could potentially be huge.

ViciousBritishVike wrote:



Not only that, I think the skeptics are underestimating the significance of this signing. Other than the fact that Greg's a viable threat, the impact off the ball, to the overall offensive approach could potentially be huge.

All of this is dependent on whether or not Ponder gets the time he needs to throw the ball, and then consistently makes accurate throws.

News flash: Defenses are capable of changing their formations. They've even been known to do it on a play by play basis.

The Breeze wrote:I'm expecting a heck of a lot less 2-3yd passes as we go. Whether that's on CP or Musgrave, should be clear to me this year. I expect a guy like GJ to take full advantage of 8 man fronts and also be able to help CP noodle out his options on Blitzes.

I think that short, quick stuff was used so frequently to manufacture touches for Harvin, who better was as a runner with the ball than as a route runner without it. That said, most of the time, it was effective so I never understood why it rubbed so many fans the wrong way. Short, high percentage passes are bread and butter plays for many NFL offenses and I expect that stuff to remain in the Vikings arsenal but be used somewhat less. I never thought those throws were about Ponder's skill set. I think they were an effort to get the ball to Harvin and where they could set up blocks and let him do his thing. At least that was my take...

I think Ponder's at his best when he can drop, set and throw in rhythm and I expect Jennings to help him with that by being able to un crisply timed routes and be open when Ponder is ready to release the ball. Hopefully, it will work out that way.

If those kinds of things start to happen, the way AD is used will change. Not so much his carries but the lack of "obviousness" about when he's getting the rock. Play action, draws and delayed handoffs on 3rd downs etc. will be more effective and keep defenses on their heels.

Good point, although the way things went down the stretch last year, maybe it's better if defenses know when AD will run and bring as many as 9 men up. That seemed to lead to big play after big play because once he beat the first two lines of defense, there was no third and he was just gashing opposing teams for big gains!

Eli wrote:News flash: Defenses are capable of changing their formations. They've even been known to do it on a play by play basis.

well yeah. and i think it's high time this team forces them to do it regularly rather than load up and take shots at AD.

do you think an 8 man front is to AD's advantage or the defenses'?

The guy had 1000yds after contact last season and was probably hit by DBs at the line of scrimmage more than any other RB in the era of the forward pass.

The Breeze wrote:
well yeah. and i think it's high time this team forces them to do it regularly rather than load up and take shots at AD.

do you think an 8 man front is to AD's advantage or the defenses'?

The guy had 1000yds after contact last season and was probably hit by DBs at the line of scrimmage more than any other RB in the era of the forward pass.

Sadly 8 men in the box is easy mode, it's when they bring 9+ in, then they can either stop us or AD runs for 50+. Seriously though, I don't think you will EVER see a non 8+ man front against Peterson, unless its like 3rd and 7+. It's harder to complete a 20 yard pass then to just hand it off to Adrian so if anyone ever "picks their poison" it'll be to the deep ball / passing game.

Mothman wrote:
I think that short, quick stuff was used so frequently to manufacture touches for Harvin, who better was as a runner with the ball than as a route runner without it. That said, most of the time, it was effective so I never understood why it rubbed so many fans the wrong way. Short, high percentage passes are bread and butter plays for many NFL offenses and I expect that stuff to remain in the Vikings arsenal but be used somewhat less. I never thought those throws were about Ponder's skill set. I think they were an effort to get the ball to Harvin and where they could set up blocks and let him do his thing. At least that was my take...

i agree about Harvin... and I expect them to use Wright in a similar fashion. what stood out to me about it was that they seemed to completely rely on it to the point where defenses had 8-9 guys in the box often. the chances were it was either a running play or a short pass to Harvin. both of whom had the ability to make you pay for stacking the box.....or get stuffed. seemed to be feast or famine to me.

Mothman wrote: I think Ponder's at his best when he can drop, set and throw in rhythm and I expect Jennings to help him with that by being able to un crisply timed routes and be open when Ponder is ready to release the ball. Hopefully, it will work out that way.

i'd like to see them go into some no huddle this year to help set that rhythm and tempo between the running and passing attack. we all know, this offense has been stunted by lack of down field options, because of line play and not having any real down field options ...i imagine that makes it tough to call a game plan as an OC. I want to see what Musgrave can do with a more complete arsenal.

Mothman wrote: Good point, although the way things went down the stretch last year, maybe it's better if defenses know when AD will run and bring as many as 9 men up. That seemed to lead to big play after big play because once he beat the first two lines of defense, there was no third and he was just gashing opposing teams for big gains!

ha! and there's a lot of truth to that IMO....and I've wondered how stretching the defense would effect the big plays in the run game...

this offense can really be a dynamic nightmare for defenses as is, if Ponder can steadily progress. this team has had 1 good year at the QB position since AD has been here. it's a shame really.

mondry wrote:
Sadly 8 men in the box is easy mode, it's when they bring 9+ in, then they can either stop us or AD runs for 50+. Seriously though, I don't think you will EVER see a non 8+ man front against Peterson, unless its like 3rd and 7+. It's harder to complete a 20 yard pass then to just hand it off to Adrian so if anyone ever "picks their poison" it'll be to the deep ball / passing game.

and i wouldn't argue with you...just remarking, after seeing the actual numbers, at the potential that is there when he is on the field to do a heck of a lot more with the offense than they've done. in spite of 2000 yds rushing last season.

sometimes i get the purest sense of Demi's frustration

The Breeze wrote: i'd like to see them go into some no huddle this year to help set that rhythm and tempo between the running and passing attack. we all know, this offense has been stunted by lack of down field options, because of line play and not having any real down field options ...i imagine that makes it tough to call a game plan as an OC. I want to see what Musgrave can do with a more complete arsenal.

I do too and I'd love to see some no huddle offense from the Vikes in 2013.

ha! and there's a lot of truth to that IMO....and I've wondered how stretching the defense would effect the big plays in the run game...

I have too. It could actually mean more 30 yard gains and fewer long TD runs.

this offense can really be a dynamic nightmare for defenses as is, if Ponder can steadily progress. this team has had 1 good year at the QB position since AD has been here. it's a shame really.

"A shame" barely describes it.

I think the offense needs at least one more piece to really be a dynamic nightmare for defenses...unless someone on the roster significantly raises their level of play this season. It may sound silly to say but they need that 4th option (after AD, Jennings and Rudolph) to emerge. When that happens, that's what can really transform a good offense into a killer.

I'd love to see a lot of things. But the team is kind of limited by their quarterback. Ponder had 5 completions all season over 20 yards. 5 for 32. Why would a defense even consider dropping their safeties when the noddle armed QB they're facing can't even accurately throw past about 15 yards? Even when receivers get open the ball is rarely where it should be.

This number is less about AD in the backfield, and more about Ponder, TJoke, Gus. What were these numbers like the year Favre was here would tell more of the tale of whether or not defenses where scheming to stop Peterson, or just running these fronts because they have zero fear of the opposing quarterbacks doing anything about it. Obviously it could be both, but get a QB in there that can hit open receivers down field, and teams wouldn't for a second think they could run those players, regardless of how many Peterson's were in the backfield.

Demi wrote:I'd love to see a lot of things. But the team is kind of limited by their quarterback. Ponder had 5 completions all season over 20 yards. 5 for 32. Why would a defense even consider dropping their safeties when the noddle armed QB they're facing can't even accurately throw past about 15 yards? Even when receivers get open the ball is rarely where it should be.

This number is less about AD in the backfield, and more about Ponder, TJoke, Gus. What were these numbers like the year Favre was here would tell more of the tale of whether or not defenses where scheming to stop Peterson, or just running these fronts because they have zero fear of the opposing quarterbacks doing anything about it. Obviously it could be both, but get a QB in there that can hit open receivers down field, and teams wouldn't for a second think they could run those players, regardless of how many Peterson's were in the backfield.

I think you have to include the play of the O line in there as well.

This is what I find intriguing about AD and these numbers. Regardless of how many times he faced 8-9man fronts with Favre, in 2009 AD had his lowest yds/pc(4.4) and his highest # of receptions (43) and by far his most TDs in a season(18). He still had nearly 1400 yds rushing but he had over 400 yds receiving also. Meanwhile, Favre enjoyed an incredible season picking apart defenses bent on stopping AD.

i hope you're wrong about Ponder.

Mothman wrote: "A shame" barely describesit.

I think the offense needs at least one more piece to really be a dynamic nightmare for defenses...unless someone on the roster significantly raises their level of play this season. It may sound silly to say but they need that 4th option (after AD, Jennings and Rudolph) to emerge. When that happens, that's what can really transform a good offense into a killer.

I think Wright could be that guy...and sooner than some of us think. He has big time speed and the benefit of not being the main option, which translates into lots of single coverage.