Vikings Message Board.Com

One of the things we feel we do better than anyone, is assess offensive line play. We’re watching these maulers on the line getting to the second level, pancaking defensive linemen, and every so often getting beat.And we do it on every single play of every single game.

So as much as anyone can be qualified to rank offensive lines we feel we’re up to the challenge of doing so. Thus, after seven weeks of NFL action, it’s time to unveil some offensive line rankings.

In a rather crude way we’re adding together the cumulative grades for every offensive linemen on a team to give a score for every team. With teams having played different numbers of games this number has been divided by how many games they’ve played to give an average score per game in each area.

3. Minnesota Vikings

PB = 8th, RB = 5th, PEN = 7th

Matt Kalil has been as advertised and is yet to give up a sack in the NFL. The star though is none other than John Sullivan who is proving 2011 was no fluke.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... ankings/2/

Maybe they did this before the game against the Cardinals?

Otherwise, pretty hard to throw the Viking O-line under the bus for Ponder's struggles if this evaluation is correct.

VikingLord wrote:Maybe they did this before the game against the Cardinals?

Otherwise, pretty hard to throw the Viking O-line under the bus for Ponder's struggles if this evaluation is correct.

Your implication is clear but the film doesn't lie. The offensive line was giving up a lot of pressure in the second half against the Cardinals...

... and just to be clear, nobody is throwing them under the bus for Ponder's struggles. I'm simply saying they allowed a lot of pressure and that influenced the QB's performance. Ponder still bears responsibility for his own mistakes.

BTW, I'm almost positive Kalil gave up a sack against the Colts.

Mothman wrote:BTW, I'm almost positive Kalil gave up a sack against the Colts.

I'm not sure. I know credited sacks aren't as cut and dry as the guy Kalil is blocking tackling Ponder behind the line of scrimmage. I've seen a couple of reports that have said the same thing. Perhaps they take into account the time the QB has the ball (say 5 seconds and he's sacked it's on Ponder not Kalil), the scheme (if Kalil has passed his guy along to someone else), if the blitz was picked up by the RB or other factors? I'm not sure. It could be the case where several of the sources I'm thinking of are referencing back off each other. Regardless, he's done an outstanding job in pass protection and has been every bit as advertised even if he may have not been perfect this season.

They o-line was abysmal in pass protection last night, a serious disappointment for the second week in a row. They allowed 3 sacks and way too many pressures to a defense that only had 8 sacks coming into the game. Ponder was under too much pressure from the very start of the game and although he is (unsurprisingly) taking most of the heat from fans, the role pass protection is playing in the offense's struggles the past two weeks simply can't be overlooked. The Vikes have 10 days to get this straightened out before they face a very aggressive, very tough defense on the road. If they don't, they will have no chance to win that game.

Mothman wrote:They o-line was abysmal in pass protection last night, a serious disappointment for the second week in a row. They allowed 3 sacks and way too many pressures to a defense that only had 8 sacks coming into the game. Ponder was under too much pressure from the very start of the game and although he is (unsurprisingly) taking most of the heat from fans, the role pass protection is playing in the offense's struggles the past two weeks simply can't be overlooked. The Vikes have 10 days to get this straightened out before they face a very aggressive, very tough defense on the road. If they don't, they will have no chance to win that game.

He was under a lot of pressure, but it seemed like most of it was heavy blitzing. When 8 guys rush the quarterback, there will be pressure, and it's on the QB to stay calm and poised, make the quick hot read, and deliver the ball. A good QB kills teams that blitz. Ponder is just not doing this. He panics and either makes a bad decision or makes no decision and takes the sack. Maybe it's just that he's young but to me he really struggles with his reads and making quick GOOD decisions.

Well, I have been a Ponder supporter all year, but he is starting to lose my support after last night. Mothman is right about the o-line and pressure though. For the last two weeks Ponder has been under pressure a lot and quickly. There were a lot of times last night he dropped back and there was pressure in his face before he even got set. That said he did make some terrible reads. There were guys open and he either didn't see them or didn't throw to them trying to make a bigger play. That's poor decision making.

But our pass protection has really dropped off lately and has got to get fixed.

Delaqure wrote:Well, I have been a Ponder supporter all year, but he is starting to lose my support after last night. Mothman is right about the o-line and pressure though. For the last two weeks Ponder has been under pressure a lot and quickly. There were a lot of times last night he dropped back and there was pressure in his face before he even got set. That said he did make some terrible reads. There were guys open and he either didn't see them or didn't throw to them trying to make a bigger play. That's poor decision making.

It is and he's pressing. Everyone has been saying the Vikes need to make more plays down the field and last night, Ponder was clearly trying to do that. The guy gets ripped for checking down too often but when he doesn't check down, we get what happened yesterday. He gets ripped for throwing INTs but people get upset at the number of incompletions when he throws it away. We hear about how he should throw it to Rudolph even if Rudolph has no separation because Rudolph has great hands and a wide catch radius. That's great but asking a young, struggling QB to avoid INTs but throw it to the guy who's covered is asking quite a bit.

I think all of that and more is probably getting into his head now and Ponder is obviously struggling. He's regressed and his confidence has suffered but this is the time when his teammates to pick him up and help him out. Musgrave needs to call a better game and keep Peterson involved. Receivers (and by that I mean eligible receivers) need to create separation and get open. The o-line needs to protect him, give him the time to step up in the pocket and deliver throws and they need to help him feel confident in doing it by creating and maintaining a pocket. All of that needs to happen and if/when it does, Ponder needs to reward his teammates by playing better and coming through for them too.

Ponder's bad play impacts his teammates and their bad play impacts him. If the Vikes are going to get back on the winning track, it ALL needs to change and fast.

There's no doubt the line had some poor blitz recognition on some of those sacks. However, Ponders job is to also read blitzes pre-snap. If they bring 8, someone is open. I think a good QB can make a bad line look good and vice versa. Both need improvements but I think some of the pressure has to do with the Vikings bunch sets and not spreading out the field. Anyone notice how well those slants to Jenkins works so well late in the game? Where is that earlier? If a team brings their LBs that play will be there. Or how about a double move by the receiver with a pump fake by Ponder. When have we ever seen that? To me personnel is a poor excuse for lack of creativity.

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S197 wrote:There's no doubt the line had some poor blitz recognition on some of those sacks. However, Ponders job is to also read blitzes pre-snap. If they bring 8, someone is open.

How often do you think they brought 8?

I think a good QB can make a bad line look good and vice versa. Both need improvements but I think some of the pressure has to do with the Vikings bunch sets and not spreading out the field. Anyone notice how well those slants to Jenkins works so well late in the game?

Sure, because late in games where the Vikes are trailing, the coverage is soft because defenses are looking to prevent quick strikes, not slants to slow receivers. I DO think they could run that play with some success at other times because Jenkins runs the route well and uses his body effectively to shield defenders from the ball but it looks so easy late in games because the coverage is making it easy.

Or how about a double move by the receiver with a pump fake by Ponder. When have we ever seen that?

I think they did it on thursday. i remember the pump fake (the announcer even described it). I don't recall if it was a double move by the receiver.

I think at this point, people are trying to find a small handful of people to blame for the Vikings offensive problems when I suspect the reality is that there are problems everywhere and they are combining to kill drives and ruin plays.

Week 10 update. I believe both are a few spots too high, but that's just my subjective opinion. 49ers and Lions are #1 and #2 respectively.

3. Minnesota Vikings (3rd)

PB = 11th, RB = 2nd and PEN = 5th

This line is only getting better, and if they’d replace Brandon Fusco with Geoff Schwartz? Well who knows how much higher they’d be. John Sullivan is the premier performer on the line but he won’t have that title for much longer if Matt Kalil continues his development. I don’t necessarily agree with taking a tackle that high, but if you’re going to it doesn’t hurt that he hits the ground running like Kalil.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -update/3/

Kalil has really impressed me, one thing that really stands out is on Adrian's 61 yard TD run against the Lions, Kalil is one of the first guys in the endzone congratulating him, that's some good speed and athleticism from a lineman and sticking with the play! So glad he was the pick over the other jokers claiborne and blackmon!

dead_poet wrote:Week 10 update. I believe both are a few spots too high, but that's just my subjective opinion. 49ers and Lions are #1 and #2 respectively.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -update/3/

I'm not sure why you wouldn't take a tackle that high. It's an important position and it's not as if quality left tackles are easy to find.

The run blocking has been very good so i can't really quibble with that grade. However, if the Vikings o-line is the 11th best pass blocking unit in the NFL, I feel sorry for the QBs playing behind the other 21 lines!

mondry wrote:Kalil has really impressed me, one thing that really stands out is on Adrian's 61 yard TD run against the Lions, Kalil is one of the first guys in the endzone congratulating him, that's some good speed and athleticism from a lineman and sticking with the play! So glad he was the pick over the other jokers claiborne and blackmon!

No doubt. Claiborne has been pretty good though (better earlier in the year pre-injury than lately). At this point I'm really glad we passed on Blackmon (even though QB play might be partially to blame for his disappointing season). Kalil should be a major contributor and staple of the line for years. To me, Charlie is still the weakest link (even if Fusco seems to be trying his best to beat him for that "honor" as of late). Kind of hope we re-sign Schwartz after the season. He's been playing pretty well from limited action. Hopefully Fusco can turn things around.

dead_poet wrote: No doubt. Claiborne has been pretty good though (better earlier in the year pre-injury than lately). At this point I'm really glad we passed on Blackmon (even though QB play might be partially to blame for his disappointing season). Kalil should be a major contributor and staple of the line for years. To me, Charlie is still the weakest link (even if Fusco seems to be trying his best to beat him for that "honor" as of late). Kind of hope we re-sign Schwartz after the season. He's been playing pretty well from limited action. Hopefully Fusco can turn things around.

Personally, I think Johnson's been better than Fusco. CJ has actually been a very strong run blocker this season. His pass protection needs work but I think that's true of the whole line. I think Fusco's probably the weakest link but Loadholt aggravates me just about every game by completely whiffing on a pass block or two and letting uncontested defenders into the backfield. He can look great at times but there are plays where he's really slow off the ball or just turns an outside rusher loose by blocking inside.... even when he has no help to pick up that outside rusher.