Vikings Message Board.Com

I think so, prime years locked.

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:03 pm

StanM wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:57 pm

You’re projecting Diggs type antics on the hardest working, most humble and appreciative future HOF player we’ve had in many years. I’m not seeing any indication that he’s not the same hard working team player we’ve known and loved before this contract. He’s not injury prone and coaches aren’t going to rush a player of that caliber back into the lineup.

This is all a fairly easy concept to understand but after all the Viking bad luck and disappointment glass half full thinking is our default mode. I think it’s all going to work out.

I think he earned the money. Character wise he's better than most NFL players. He's vital to the development of JJ. At the end of the day I can't blame him for not rushing back with the hamstring after Kirk went out and the season was over anyway. I just hope it doesn't happen again. Especially if we are in contention.

Thinking back to last year KOC made it clear on numerous occasions that the medical and coaching staff were cautious with the hamstring. He said in pretty much every press conference that they weren’t going to bring him back too early:

Turn the clock ahead to the past month and people on social were blasting JJ for being “injury prone” and a diva. I read, comprehend and remember what was said in the past so the attacks on his character over the contract got old after the first rumor. I have thick enough skin to follow the Vikings since 1961 but I can’t handle the misguided fan opinions. Projecting Diggs behavior onto JJ was hard to watch.

StanM wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:34 am

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:03 pm

I think he earned the money. Character wise he's better than most NFL players. He's vital to the development of JJ. At the end of the day I can't blame him for not rushing back with the hamstring after Kirk went out and the season was over anyway. I just hope it doesn't happen again. Especially if we are in contention.

Thinking back to last year KOC made it clear on numerous occasions that the medical and coaching staff were cautious with the hamstring. He said in pretty much every press conference that they weren’t going to bring him back too early:

Turn the clock ahead to the past month and people on social were blasting JJ for being “injury prone” and a diva. I read, comprehend and remember what was said in the past so the attacks on his character over the contract got old after the first rumor. I have thick enough skin to follow the Vikings since 1961 but I can’t handle the misguided fan opinions. Projecting Diggs behavior onto JJ was hard to watch.

I just don't remember anyone ever missing that long with a hamstring strain. He missed 9 weeks from a likely strain which takes 2 to heal from. Unless it was a partial tear and they didn't disclose it then that's excessive. If it was a partial tear those take 4 to 8 weeks. He also had a chest injury that was labeled a bruise. So the injury prone label has some merit for last season at least. Granted we were out of the playoffs so who cares.

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:17 am Hopefully now he doesn't sit out with a hamstring issue for half the season.

He's not going to sit out any games with a fake injury. He may miss some games with an actual injury.

StanM wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:34 am

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:03 pm

I think he earned the money. Character wise he's better than most NFL players. He's vital to the development of JJ. At the end of the day I can't blame him for not rushing back with the hamstring after Kirk went out and the season was over anyway. I just hope it doesn't happen again. Especially if we are in contention.

Thinking back to last year KOC made it clear on numerous occasions that the medical and coaching staff were cautious with the hamstring. He said in pretty much every press conference that they weren’t going to bring him back too early:

Turn the clock ahead to the past month and people on social were blasting JJ for being “injury prone” and a diva. I read, comprehend and remember what was said in the past so the attacks on his character over the contract got old after the first rumor. I have thick enough skin to follow the Vikings since 1961 but I can’t handle the misguided fan opinions. Projecting Diggs behavior onto JJ was hard to watch.

I don't pay much attention to social media so I don't know what was being said about JJ's injury generally, but I never got the sense he didn't want to play or was avoiding the field. He strikes me as someone who wants to be remembered as one of the all-time greats and the pace he's on would put him right up there among the best receivers to ever play the game. Kind of hard to believe anyone could credibly argue he's sitting out for any other reason than he had to sit out.

I always expected JJ to extend his contract with the Vikings right up until Cousins left. At that point I wasn't so sure. JJ has consistently praised Cousins and it did seem possible that with no established starter at QB in Minnesota JJ might want to go somewhere he could play on a team that he knew what he would get at QB. These are his prime years coming up and I'm sure he'd like to at least have a chance to compete for a championship at some point. So his staying in Minnesota says something more than the size of the deal he signed. It says he believes in the organization behind the team and that they will resolve the questions at QB in the near future.

I'm kind of excited about the team now. Yes, Cousins is gone and with him is the level of QB play we've all become accustomed to over the last several years, but also gone is his contract and the general lack of hope that the team has a chance to compete for something more significant than an early playoff exit. I know it could be worse, especially in the short term, but if it were hopeless I really don't believe JJ would have remained a Viking no matter what they would have paid him. I think he would have forced his way out one way or another.

Let's hope that faith is rewarded. I hear good things about McCarthy's arm strength and ability to put zip on the ball.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:59 pm On the bright side the Vikings are all set at #1 WR for the foreseeable future. JJ is established, makes an impact when he's on the field either by making plays or by forcing defenses to focus on him, and is by all accounts a hard worker and a player leader.

But to get what they're paying for, they need their rookie QB to pan out, and sooner rather than later. The Vikings have invested a lot of cap into receiving talent (Hockenson was and/or is the highest paid TE in the league IIRC, and now JJ is the highest paid non-QB in the league). Since those guys can only make a real impact if the guy throwing the ball can get it to them reliably, if McCarthy doesn't pan out these mega deals are going to become an albatross around the Vikings proverbial necks.

I generally like the move. In the economic world of pro football, JJ is probably worth it. But without an established QB this is risky play by the Vikings. Here's hoping the dice cooperate...

The point you make about McCarthy goes way beyond contracts. If that pick don't pan out this current group needs to go. He can sit a year but year 2 is a must do for him. If he can't play the albatross will be bad drafting. No team can compete for anything with bad drafting. Teams that make consistent runs typically draft better than the rest. This was year 3 draft and it needs to be a home run or see you later.

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 10:20 am

I just don't remember anyone ever missing that long with a hamstring strain. He missed 9 weeks from a likely strain which takes 2 to heal from. Unless it was a partial tear and they didn't disclose it then that's excessive. If it was a partial tear those take 4 to 8 weeks. He also had a chest injury that was labeled a bruise. So the injury prone label has some merit for last season at least. Granted we were out of the playoffs so who cares.

Probably more serious than the Vikings let on. Greg Dulcich, tight end for the Broncos, has missed most of his first 2 years with hamstring pulls. If my memory is correct (not always the case) he pulled his hamstring last year in training camp or first game or 2, came back after missing about 4 games, pulled it again in the first game back and that was it for the season. Those muscle pulls are stinkers once you get one.

cogitator wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 6:33 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 10:20 am

I just don't remember anyone ever missing that long with a hamstring strain. He missed 9 weeks from a likely strain which takes 2 to heal from. Unless it was a partial tear and they didn't disclose it then that's excessive. If it was a partial tear those take 4 to 8 weeks. He also had a chest injury that was labeled a bruise. So the injury prone label has some merit for last season at least. Granted we were out of the playoffs so who cares.

Probably more serious than the Vikings let on. Greg Dulcich, tight end for the Broncos, has missed most of his first 2 years with hamstring pulls. If my memory is correct (not always the case) he pulled his hamstring last year in training camp or first game or 2, came back after missing about 4 games, pulled it again in the first game back and that was it for the season. Those muscle pulls are stinkers once you get one.

I doubt the Vikings would have been OK inking JJ to the extension they did had they not been satisfied that the hamstring issue was resolved. Not to say it can't flare up again, but just that it isn't an issue they must have been concerned about, not with all the guaranteed money in that deal.

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:05 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:59 pm On the bright side the Vikings are all set at #1 WR for the foreseeable future. JJ is established, makes an impact when he's on the field either by making plays or by forcing defenses to focus on him, and is by all accounts a hard worker and a player leader.

But to get what they're paying for, they need their rookie QB to pan out, and sooner rather than later. The Vikings have invested a lot of cap into receiving talent (Hockenson was and/or is the highest paid TE in the league IIRC, and now JJ is the highest paid non-QB in the league). Since those guys can only make a real impact if the guy throwing the ball can get it to them reliably, if McCarthy doesn't pan out these mega deals are going to become an albatross around the Vikings proverbial necks.

I generally like the move. In the economic world of pro football, JJ is probably worth it. But without an established QB this is risky play by the Vikings. Here's hoping the dice cooperate...

The point you make about McCarthy goes way beyond contracts. If that pick don't pan out this current group needs to go. He can sit a year but year 2 is a must do for him. If he can't play the albatross will be bad drafting. No team can compete for anything with bad drafting. Teams that make consistent runs typically draft better than the rest. This was year 3 draft and it needs to be a home run or see you later.

Very true.

The hard part about the draft this year and the Vikings QB situation is that they didn't really have much of a choice when it came right down to it because of where they were drafting and who went off the board by the time they were able to pick. If KAM and KOC had their pick of the QB litter in this past draft, I wonder who they would have chosen. But they didn't have that, and were really left choosing between McCarthy and Nix.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if McCarthy, Nix, or both, turn out to be the best QBs out of this past draft. Drafting QB is notoriously difficult, and none of the QBs taken this year were sure things. All had serious question marks and many of them are going to be thrust into immediate starting roles on bad teams and that, more than anything else, might ultimately determine how successful they are in the pros.

But with that said, the fact remains that its very possible that the Vikings were forced to take McCarthy where they did. All we know is among the choice they had between McCarthy and Nix they chose McCarthy. So if McCarthy fails and Nix succeeds, I suppose we could fairly criticize KAM and KOC for their ability to evaluate at least those two prospects coming out.

Along those lines I suppose the Bears GM is the most exposed of all of the GMs to that criticism as he had the pick of the litter. If Williams doesn't pan out and one or more of the other QBs taken in this last draft does, he won't have any excuses.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:32 pm

Along those lines I suppose the Bears GM is the most exposed of all of the GMs to that criticism as he had the pick of the litter. If Williams doesn't pan out and one or more of the other QBs taken in this last draft does, he won't have any excuses.

I think that would be seen to more of a failing by Williams than the GM. I think out of every team that needs a qb, if any of them had the number one pick this year they all would have taken Williams.

cogitator wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:39 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:32 pm

Along those lines I suppose the Bears GM is the most exposed of all of the GMs to that criticism as he had the pick of the litter. If Williams doesn't pan out and one or more of the other QBs taken in this last draft does, he won't have any excuses.

I think that would be seen to more of a failing by Williams than the GM. I think out of every team that needs a qb, if any of them had the number one pick this year they all would have taken Williams.

True, but the great GMs see those pending flaws and avoid them at worst or exploit others' failure to see them at best. I wonder what the Bears could have gotten had they traded out of the 1st pick this year? And let's say they traded out, got that stash, and still ended up then drafting a great QB? The Bears GM would be legend, taking his place (rightfully) among the GM gods.

I do wonder whether Williams is another fool's gold college QB. A guy with tons of talent but who is essentially uncoachable and is despised by his teammates because he's arrogant, selfish and unreliable.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:32 pm

cogitator wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:39 pm

I think that would be seen to more of a failing by Williams than the GM. I think out of every team that needs a qb, if any of them had the number one pick this year they all would have taken Williams.

True, but the great GMs see those pending flaws and avoid them at worst or exploit others' failure to see them at best. I wonder what the Bears could have gotten had they traded out of the 1st pick this year? And let's say they traded out, got that stash, and still ended up then drafting a great QB? The Bears GM would be legend, taking his place (rightfully) among the GM gods.

I do wonder whether Williams is another fool's gold college QB. A guy with tons of talent but who is essentially uncoachable and is despised by his teammates because he's arrogant, selfish and unreliable.

That is not at all how his teammates at OU felt. I can't speak first hand to what happened after he left here however.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:32 pm

cogitator wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:39 pm

I think that would be seen to more of a failing by Williams than the GM. I think out of every team that needs a qb, if any of them had the number one pick this year they all would have taken Williams.

True, but the great GMs see those pending flaws and avoid them at worst or exploit others' failure to see them at best. I wonder what the Bears could have gotten had they traded out of the 1st pick this year? And let's say they traded out, got that stash, and still ended up then drafting a great QB? The Bears GM would be legend, taking his place (rightfully) among the GM gods.

I do wonder whether Williams is another fool's gold college QB. A guy with tons of talent but who is essentially uncoachable and is despised by his teammates because he's arrogant, selfish and unreliable.

That's funny. With his BS talking about taking a pay cut to turn pro and stating he will only play for a few teams would turn me away if I was a GM.

In all seriousness. Where did CW say he would only play for a few teams? Him. On record. Did his dad say things? Yes.

What are your thoughts on John Elway and Eli Manning?

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:18 pm
That's funny. With his BS talking about taking a pay cut to turn pro and stating he will only play for a few teams would turn me away if I was a GM.

I think he backpedaled on that only playing for a few teams statement. Which really means he meant it when he said it, then saw how much criticism he got and tried to do damage control by saying he didn't really mean it, or was misquoted, or whatever the usual thing people say when they step in it. I wonder if the pink fingernails might kind of turn off a few teammates.