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Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:53 pm
by allday1991
makila wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:36 pm
Alaskan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm
I guess I don’t follow that train of thought. If you look back at the Vikings last 20 first and second rounders. Pick the best 6 and then tell me you wouldn’t give them up to have a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years Personally, I am in the fandom of this team for a championship and/or a dynasty at this point. To ME anything less we might as well win zero games. That’s my train of thought. I am tired of all the patched together mediocre teams the Vikings consistently put out there. Without the franchise guy, the chances of winning a championship are near zero, and that is a fact.
I'd frame it this way, it isn't "a franchise qb". It's the opportunity to try and swing for one. Absolutely no guarantee.
They miss and I suspect most fans would be livid in that scenario. And they lose their jobs.
It's about how confident THEY are if they think they can get a franchise qb.
To play devils advocate if qb is a position of need and a gm doesn’t take a swing and draft a qb, and then some of those QBs turn out to be good would be enough to get you fired as well as a gm. You neglected the most important position cause you were scared of losing your job and another team got him. That would be bye bye imo.
How many QBs does a gm usually get to draft before they lose their job? May as well make it a good one.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:02 pm
by makila
It's about how much risk you put in it.
Is it trade away next four 1st round picks to move into top 3?
Is it trade away a two first to get to #5?
Is it stand pat because they like someone they think is available at #11?
There's a difference between never swinging and sending out a value that rivals any nfl trade before.
I am a take a swing guy personally. I don't think four first is where I'd go though. But if they think they have their guy I get their thinking. I'm a fan of drafting a QB every few years, just to keep loading the room on the chance you find a gem.
Who is the can't miss prospect you guys trade away four first for? Williams? Maye? Or Daniels? Just curious. I don't think any of them are Andrew Luck level prospects. Which is what I want for four first. I've seen too many sure #1 qbs be meh in my lifetime. Franchise qbs aren't just #1 picks. And there are also a lot of franchise QBs who never won a ring. If it was that simple, a team would be doing it every season. Lots of risk involved.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:08 pm
by cmoss84
We basically traded hunter (2/50) for Greenard and Cashman. Seems like less risk and guaranteed money, and more years. Will see how it plays out...
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:10 pm
by Angels Wings
Alaskan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:04 pm
Angels Wings wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:49 pm
I'm also old enough to remember the Herschell Walker trade, the Ricky Williams trade and as recently as the Bryce Young trade which now has the Bears with another #1 pick. Someone even mentioned JJ AND picks; what?!!!!
I think you missed the point
Ok, what's the point I'm missing then? Who is worth that haul in this year's draft?
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:30 pm
by makila
fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:49 pm
makila wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:36 pm
I'd frame it this way, it isn't "a franchise qb". It's the opportunity to try and swing for one. Absolutely no guarantee.
They miss and I suspect most fans would be livid in that scenario. And they lose their jobs.
It's about how confident THEY are if they think they can get a franchise qb.
It's not really that big of a risk.
If they don't draft a franchise qb they aren't winning a championship and they will soon be fired.
If they risk it all and select a qb who is a dud they aren't winning a championship and they will soon be fired.
The only way they keep their jobs at this point is by taking the swing, especially after now letting Kirk walk. Fans might be bummed, but the viking will either trade the farm to get their guy around 2-3 or reach at 11 for whatever is left.
Out of curiosity, if trading away four first round picks, for the chance to draft a college player, isn't really a risk why don't we see that more often?
And who has it worked out for in the past?
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:33 pm
by makila
allday1991 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:53 pm
makila wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:36 pm
I'd frame it this way, it isn't "a franchise qb". It's the opportunity to try and swing for one. Absolutely no guarantee.
They miss and I suspect most fans would be livid in that scenario. And they lose their jobs.
It's about how confident THEY are if they think they can get a franchise qb.
To play devils advocate if qb is a position of need and a gm doesn’t take a swing and draft a qb, and then some of those QBs turn out to be good would be enough to get you fired as well as a gm. You neglected the most important position cause you were scared of losing your job and another team got him. That would be bye bye imo.
How many QBs does a gm usually get to draft before they lose their job? May as well make it a good one.
That's a good question that I haven't dug on before. Draft qb isn't the same as trade away four first for a draft pick though. Agree, we should he drafting qbs more often, and trying to develop one.
I am not, nor have I said anywhere, they shouldn't be drafting a qb. I am saying that sending out four 1st, and some 2nds, is too much for the risk involved. Every trade I can think of where they give out that kind of value, ends poorly for the team sending out the value. Roster building becomes a problem fast. This team has so much it needs.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:44 pm
by Cliff
Texans, DE Danielle Hunter agree to terms on two-year, $49M contract
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:15 pm
by fiestavike
The game has changed. It might as well be called QB ball, not football. A great QB is worth more to a team than all the rest of their players combined.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:23 pm
by makila
fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:15 pm
The game has changed. It might as well be called QB ball, not football. A great QB is worth more to a team than all the rest of their players combined.
Gotcha! I don't agree. Game favors passing offense now, absolutely. Still think the trenches are the most important. I follow your logic if that's end all, be all, though. Thanks for reasonably discussing. : )
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:42 pm
by fiestavike
makila wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:23 pm
fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:15 pm
The game has changed. It might as well be called QB ball, not football. A great QB is worth more to a team than all the rest of their players combined.
Gotcha! I don't agree. Game favors passing offense now, absolutely. Still think the trenches are the most important. I follow your logic if that's end all, be all, though. Thanks for reasonably discussing. : )
No problem. The truth is, I don't really care at this point. I get the itch around this time of year because draft season used to be my favorite part of the season. It still calls to me a little. I hardly ever watch the games anymore over the last couple years. Don't miss that even a little to be honest. The game today just stinks.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:49 pm
by allday1991
makila wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:33 pm
allday1991 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:53 pm
To play devils advocate if qb is a position of need and a gm doesn’t take a swing and draft a qb, and then some of those QBs turn out to be good would be enough to get you fired as well as a gm. You neglected the most important position cause you were scared of losing your job and another team got him. That would be bye bye imo.
How many QBs does a gm usually get to draft before they lose their job? May as well make it a good one.
That's a good question that I haven't dug on before. Draft qb isn't the same as trade away four first for a draft pick though. Agree, we should he drafting qbs more often, and trying to develop one.
I am not, nor have I said anywhere, they shouldn't be drafting a qb. I am saying that sending out four 1st, and some 2nds, is too much for the risk involved. Every trade I can think of where they give out that kind of value, ends poorly for the team sending out the value. Roster building becomes a problem fast. This team has so much it needs.
I’ll agree there, four 1st and 2nds is way to much. I’d be ok with two 1st and and some 2nds or a similar combination for any of the top 3 QBs.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:24 pm
by Maelstrom88
Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:44 pm
Texans, DE Danielle Hunter agree to terms on two-year, $49M contract
So we swapped edge guys with them. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:41 pm
by cmoss84
cmoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:08 pm
We basically traded hunter (2/50) for Greenard and Cashman. Seems like less risk and guaranteed money, and more years. Will see how it plays out...
Posted this a while ago...
Who would you rather have? Hunter or the other 2?
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:29 pm
by Alaskan
fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:49 pm
makila wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:36 pm
I'd frame it this way, it isn't "a franchise qb". It's the opportunity to try and swing for one. Absolutely no guarantee.
They miss and I suspect most fans would be livid in that scenario. And they lose their jobs.
It's about how confident THEY are if they think they can get a franchise qb.
It's not really that big of a risk.
If they don't draft a franchise qb they aren't winning a championship and they will soon be fired.
If they risk it all and select a qb who is a dud they aren't winning a championship and they will soon be fired.
The only way they keep their jobs at this point is by taking the swing, especially after now letting Kirk walk. Fans might be bummed, but the viking will either trade the farm to get their guy around 2-3 or reach at 11 for whatever is left.
Great points, couldn’t agree more! Even if they miss on the pick after
Giving up the Farm. The rookie deal and the cap space that creates gives them a lot of options with structure of contracts and signing impact players.
Re: 2024 Free Agents
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:31 pm
by Maelstrom88
cmoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:41 pm
cmoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:08 pm
We basically traded hunter (2/50) for Greenard and Cashman. Seems like less risk and guaranteed money, and more years. Will see how it plays out...
Posted this a while ago...
Who would you rather have? Hunter or the other 2?
Honestly I'm not sure. I haven't watched the new guys. They had good numbers and PFF grades.