Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

[StumpHunter]

You can make all the excuses you want for Cousins...Bottom line, he currently is a 500 QB.
What has he done in his career

41-40-2 in career.
15-10-1 with the Vikings.

Guess which one I'm concerned with?

The one you want to be.

[Pondering Her Percy]

lol yeah because him getting sacked 6 times in the bears game was because cousins held the ball too long Not this elite pass blocking OL lol. It’s easy to sit here and pick apart his bad games. It’s the only thing you have to run to at this point. Regardless, a 112.1 passer rating throwing over 2.5 seconds doesn’t just happen. Nobody gave him that stat for fun. It’s not a lie. Clearly he’s performing at just as high of a level over 2.5 than he is under. Otherwise he’s would have a passer rating like that. But you and fiesta are trying to defy reality and say that he’s still worse when throwing over 2.5. Just stop...just stop. You’re back to hunting for shi# again. Trying to find flaws in the system. Trying to find leaks in the roof. Problem is, you try to hard because you’re so deep at this point. You’re beyond committed to him being the bad QB you claim him to be. But it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you’re arguing this stat. I could tell you Kirk Cousins middle name is Daniel and you’d find a way to argue it

PHP, if you would take a step back you would realize that holding the ball longer has a number of clear benefits. For instance, receivers have more time to get separation, screen passes have time to develop, play action passes have time to develop, etc. Nobody is denying your statistic, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum and it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. There was a 3rd and 5 sunday night that resulted in a sack and illustrated where there is also a real value in getting the ball out early, just as there was the week before on passes to Thielen (early in the game) and Ham (late in the game). As you may know, I'm not a big stat's guy, and I'm not saying holding the ball too long is the big problem for Kirk. At times it is, and at times it isn't. I just don't think he deals well with pressure, whether physical pressure in the moment or the pressure Kirk applies to himself at times, when you can see him aiming, overthinking, and failing to react. This year his slide on the QB scramble was perhaps the iconic illustration of this. Last year it may have been the panicked backward pass to his RB. I thought other than aiming his pass to Rudolph down the sideline, and missing Bisi Johnson on his rollout, Kirk did a pretty good job in this game.

Fiesta, I get what you're trying to say but using the Robert Quinn sack Sunday night is a poor example. And this is the type of thing I'm referring to when I say some guys just hunt for dirt on Cousins. That was the 7th fastest sack of week 10. Quinn was unblocked. Reiff literally didnt touch him and he was a free rusher. Quinn initially got to Cousins in roughly 1.97 seconds. Which is insanely quick. If Cousins gets that out before Quinn gets to him, he's a hero.

A sack like this would have never been used against a guy like Teddy or Case. But some fans have leaned towards believing that every time Kirk Cousins gets sacked, he's holding the ball too long. Some fans have become so prone to blaming most of the offensive issues on Cousins that they now defend the OL over him. The hatred and finger pointing towards him took precedence over our poor OL (which every fan ragged on for as long as I can remember). Fans have now strayed away from that which I dont get. Granted some sacks will be Cousins fault, some will be the OL's fault. But the sack by Quinn Sunday night was in no way Cousins fault. The OL let him walk in untouched. Thats on them. If Cousins is holding the ball too long on a play and takes a sack, I have no problem admitting that. But if a guy is getting to him in 1.97 seconds, that's not Kirk's problem. It's the OLs. I'm giving Cousins a fair shot. I have since day 1. He's going to make mistakes but this is 110% not a mistake on his end.

Give credit to where credit is due and criticize when they are deserving of it. That's what you rarely see with fans vs Cousins. It's about 80% criticize (even more with some fans) to 20% giving credit for IMO. It's not even close and using a sack like this AGAINST him, is exactly what I'm talking about. Fans hunting for things to blame Cousins for and not giving him a fair shot.

[Pondering Her Percy]

41-40-2 in career.
15-10-1 with the Vikings.

Guess which one I'm concerned with?

The one you want to be.

No I can answer that for him. He's concerned with the current record he has here because that's all that matters. Not living in Cousins past and continuing to hold it against him like 99.9% of the Cousins haters do.

[Raptorman]

The one you want to be.

No I can answer that for him. He's concerned with the current record he has here because that's all that matters. Not living in Cousins past and continuing to hold it against him like 99.9% of the Cousins haters do.

Aaron Rodgers is the better QB? Right? Anyone here would say so. Any football fan would say so.

Code: Select all

The last two years, regular-season games.

Rodgers.  14-11-1
Cousins.  15-10-1

2015-2017
Rodgers   24-15-0   (2017 Rodgers only play in 7 games after walking into a Barr)
Cousins   24-23-1

[fiestavike]

PHP, if you would take a step back you would realize that holding the ball longer has a number of clear benefits. For instance, receivers have more time to get separation, screen passes have time to develop, play action passes have time to develop, etc. Nobody is denying your statistic, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum and it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. There was a 3rd and 5 sunday night that resulted in a sack and illustrated where there is also a real value in getting the ball out early, just as there was the week before on passes to Thielen (early in the game) and Ham (late in the game). As you may know, I'm not a big stat's guy, and I'm not saying holding the ball too long is the big problem for Kirk. At times it is, and at times it isn't. I just don't think he deals well with pressure, whether physical pressure in the moment or the pressure Kirk applies to himself at times, when you can see him aiming, overthinking, and failing to react. This year his slide on the QB scramble was perhaps the iconic illustration of this. Last year it may have been the panicked backward pass to his RB. I thought other than aiming his pass to Rudolph down the sideline, and missing Bisi Johnson on his rollout, Kirk did a pretty good job in this game.

Fiesta, I get what you're trying to say but using the Robert Quinn sack Sunday night is a poor example. And this is the type of thing I'm referring to when I say some guys just hunt for dirt on Cousins. That was the 7th fastest sack of week 10. Quinn was unblocked. Reiff literally didnt touch him and he was a free rusher. Quinn initially got to Cousins in roughly 1.97 seconds. Which is insanely quick. If Cousins gets that out before Quinn gets to him, he's a hero.

A sack like this would have never been used against a guy like Teddy or Case. But some fans have leaned towards believing that every time Kirk Cousins gets sacked, he's holding the ball too long. Some fans have become so prone to blaming most of the offensive issues on Cousins that they now defend the OL over him. The hatred and finger pointing towards him took precedence over our poor OL (which every fan ragged on for as long as I can remember). Fans have now strayed away from that which I dont get. Granted some sacks will be Cousins fault, some will be the OL's fault. But the sack by Quinn Sunday night was in no way Cousins fault. The OL let him walk in untouched. Thats on them. If Cousins is holding the ball too long on a play and takes a sack, I have no problem admitting that. But if a guy is getting to him in 1.97 seconds, that's not Kirk's problem. It's the OLs. I'm giving Cousins a fair shot. I have since day 1. He's going to make mistakes but this is 110% not a mistake on his end.

Give credit to where credit is due and criticize when they are deserving of it. That's what you rarely see with fans vs Cousins. It's about 80% criticize (even more with some fans) to 20% giving credit for IMO. It's not even close and using a sack like this AGAINST him, is exactly what I'm talking about. Fans hunting for things to blame Cousins for and not giving him a fair shot.

I'm not hunting for dirt, and it wouldn't have been heroic to run the play as it was designed. These things don't exist in a vacuum. 1.97 isn't a long time on a play that was designed to be an immediate slant route. Cousins just got a little scared and skittish and hesitated, and the margin for error was pretty small since they left the DE unblocked on the play. I'm really enjoying seeing the offensive line perform as well as it has this year.

[StumpHunter]

No I can answer that for him. He's concerned with the current record he has here because that's all that matters. Not living in Cousins past and continuing to hold it against him like 99.9% of the Cousins haters do.

Aaron Rodgers is the better QB? Right? Anyone here would say so. Any football fan would say so.

Code: Select all

The last two years, regular-season games.

Rodgers.  14-11-1
Cousins.  15-10-1

2015-2017
Rodgers   24-15-0   (2017 Rodgers only play in 7 games after walking into a Barr)
Cousins   24-23-1

Rodgers has a SB ring and has consistently won nearly every season he has started the majority of games. When he gets hurt, his team immediately sucks. Cousins best season is 9-7 and joined a team where when the starter went down, the team won 13 games. The team he left went 7-9 and seemed to have improved with Alex Smith before he got hurt, after going 7-9 with Cousins the year before.

The two aren't comparable. One has earned the right to have a bad season excused away, the other has not proven he can win 10 games.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Fiesta, I get what you're trying to say but using the Robert Quinn sack Sunday night is a poor example. And this is the type of thing I'm referring to when I say some guys just hunt for dirt on Cousins. That was the 7th fastest sack of week 10. Quinn was unblocked. Reiff literally didnt touch him and he was a free rusher. Quinn initially got to Cousins in roughly 1.97 seconds. Which is insanely quick. If Cousins gets that out before Quinn gets to him, he's a hero.

A sack like this would have never been used against a guy like Teddy or Case. But some fans have leaned towards believing that every time Kirk Cousins gets sacked, he's holding the ball too long. Some fans have become so prone to blaming most of the offensive issues on Cousins that they now defend the OL over him. The hatred and finger pointing towards him took precedence over our poor OL (which every fan ragged on for as long as I can remember). Fans have now strayed away from that which I dont get. Granted some sacks will be Cousins fault, some will be the OL's fault. But the sack by Quinn Sunday night was in no way Cousins fault. The OL let him walk in untouched. Thats on them. If Cousins is holding the ball too long on a play and takes a sack, I have no problem admitting that. But if a guy is getting to him in 1.97 seconds, that's not Kirk's problem. It's the OLs. I'm giving Cousins a fair shot. I have since day 1. He's going to make mistakes but this is 110% not a mistake on his end.

Give credit to where credit is due and criticize when they are deserving of it. That's what you rarely see with fans vs Cousins. It's about 80% criticize (even more with some fans) to 20% giving credit for IMO. It's not even close and using a sack like this AGAINST him, is exactly what I'm talking about. Fans hunting for things to blame Cousins for and not giving him a fair shot.

I'm not hunting for dirt, and it wouldn't have been heroic to run the play as it was designed. These things don't exist in a vacuum. 1.97 isn't a long time on a play that was designed to be an immediate slant route. Cousins just got a little scared and skittish and hesitated, and the margin for error was pretty small since they left the DE unblocked on the play. I'm really enjoying seeing the offensive line perform as well as it has this year.

Dude what??!! Go watch the play.

First of all, how do you know what the play call was or how it was designed?

Second, how did he get skittish? If you watch the play, nothing signifies him getting "skittish and scared".

Third, you're saying you're enjoying how the OL has played this year but somehow dont think they are to blame on this play? What fricken play call is designed to let a DE go unblocked? Reiff looked inside on a guy that was 1 on 1 with Elflein. He didnt even look at Quinn.

If you look at the screenshot, nobody is running a slant. Diggs and Rudolph and Bisi are all running in routes. Not one of them has even turned around yet and even at this exact point, it is impossible for Cousins to get that ball out because if he pulls it back to throw, he would be stripped sacked because you can see Quinn's arm directly behind Cousins. So essentially, what this is saying is that he would have had to get this out even earlier than at the time of this screenshot, so even quicker than 1.97 seconds, when clearly the WRs arent even close to coming out of their routes given they arent even out of them during this shot.

It literally baffles me that a fan is questioning Cousins on this play, saying he got scared, skittish and hesitated and didnt get rid of the ball quick enough when a DE goes unblocked and on his lap in 1.97 seconds. Literally BAFFLES me!! That sir, is indeed hunting for dirt. Fans are getting THIS nitpicky with Cousins and how quick he gets the ball out. Never have I seen this with any other Vikings QB, ever. If he holds the ball too long and gets sacked, by all means, say he held it too long. But 1.97 seconds when he had a free rusher on his blindside...and you're going to say he's at fault? Give me a break dude

I'd love to see a stat of how often a QB is sacked when the OL lets a DE go unblocked on the QBs blindside. I guarantee that any NFL QB gets sacked on this exact play. Wilson, Mahomes, I dont care who, they are getting sacked AND/OR stripped on this play 10 times out of 10.

And another thing that kills me....

After Cousins wins a big primetime game (something he supposedly cant do), after Cousins beats a winning team (something he supposedly cant do), after Cousins plays very well and doesnt turn the ball over (something he is often criticized for), after we have a record now of 7-3 (Cousins always criticized for his records)......THIS is what it has come to. Dissecting the ONE sack he took all game when he had a free rusher coming at his blindside. Blows. My. Mind.

You know, I've learned that some fans (mostly the Cousins haters) will ALWAYS find a way to complain about something Cousins did. Win, loss or draw, it's just in their nature at this point. And it just further proves my point that this guy never got a fair shot from the start with many fans, media, etc. Instead of enjoying the win, getting excited about the team and how Kirk is playing, it's like some fans HAVE to find something he did wrong otherwise they wont be satisfied with themselves. They go on a mission to HUNT for something he did wrong. Again, I've never seen fans come at a QB like they do Cousins. Never in my life. And the sad thing is, he didnt even do anything wrong here!! This could have EASILY been a strip sack, Reiff failed to execute and Cousins protected the ball. Imagine what guys would be saying if he fumbled there. Instead he protects it but guys still want to claim he got "skittish and hesitated" and that's why he got sacked. Just unbelievable. You guys must think that we have the greatest OL to ever step on a football field given how much you complain about Cousins holding the ball too long and taking sacks.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Aaron Rodgers is the better QB? Right? Anyone here would say so. Any football fan would say so.

Code: Select all

The last two years, regular-season games.

Rodgers.  14-11-1
Cousins.  15-10-1

2015-2017
Rodgers   24-15-0   (2017 Rodgers only play in 7 games after walking into a Barr)
Cousins   24-23-1

Rodgers has a SB ring and has consistently won nearly every season he has started the majority of games. When he gets hurt, his team immediately sucks. Cousins best season is 9-7 and joined a team where when the starter went down, the team won 13 games. The team he left went 7-9 and seemed to have improved with Alex Smith before he got hurt, after going 7-9 with Cousins the year before.

The two aren't comparable. One has earned the right to have a bad season excused away, the other has not proven he can win 10 games.

Maybe they arent comparable skill wise, but given the numbers he posted, if their records are that close, maybe they are more comparable than many think. Rodgers has been crowned the best in the game for how long and hasnt touched a SB in going on 9 years. Either way, I think what Raptor is trying to say is not necessarily Cousins is as skilled as Rodgers but putting Cousins record up against someone thats the "best in the game" and it's not as bad as people think. Rodgers wasnt hurt last year and his team sucked. No less since Cousins became a starter, he hasnt had as bad of a record as Rodgers had last year and Cousins was on some very poor teams.

I dont think there is anyone that has "earned the right to have a bad season excused away". These guys are paid to perform. Rodgers is the "best in the game". If you're in and out of the lineup due to injury that's one thing. But Rodgers played the full season and won 6 games. Sorry but if you're claimed to be the best in the game and are pumping out 6 wins, there isnt much of an excuse for that.

[StumpHunter]

I dont think there is anyone that has "earned the right to have a bad season excused away".

I am so happy to read this that I will ignore the fact you said Rodgers and Cousins are even remotely comparable.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I dont think there is anyone that has "earned the right to have a bad season excused away".

I am so happy to read this that I will ignore the fact you said Rodgers and Cousins are even remotely comparable.

You're looking at it as a literal comparison which nobody has done. And clearly you're missing the point which doesnt surprise me when someone is trying to defend Cousins. Nor did anyone excuse away Cousins season last year. But anyone, other than you, could say there was a lot that went wrong on this team last year, not just Kirk Cousins in crunch time.

[StumpHunter]

I am so happy to read this that I will ignore the fact you said Rodgers and Cousins are even remotely comparable.

You're looking at it as a literal comparison which nobody has done. And clearly you're missing the point which doesnt surprise me when someone is trying to defend Cousins. Nor did anyone excuse away Cousins season last year. But anyone, other than you, could say there was a lot that went wrong on this team last year, not just Kirk Cousins in crunch time.

Well that was short lived.

[CharVike]

I'm not hunting for dirt, and it wouldn't have been heroic to run the play as it was designed. These things don't exist in a vacuum. 1.97 isn't a long time on a play that was designed to be an immediate slant route. Cousins just got a little scared and skittish and hesitated, and the margin for error was pretty small since they left the DE unblocked on the play. I'm really enjoying seeing the offensive line perform as well as it has this year.

Dude what??!! Go watch the play.

First of all, how do you know what the play call was or how it was designed?

Second, how did he get skittish? If you watch the play, nothing signifies him getting "skittish and scared".

Third, you're saying you're enjoying how the OL has played this year but somehow dont think they are to blame on this play? What fricken play call is designed to let a DE go unblocked? Reiff looked inside on a guy that was 1 on 1 with Elflein. He didnt even look at Quinn.

If you look at the screenshot, nobody is running a slant. Diggs and Rudolph and Bisi are all running in routes. Not one of them has even turned around yet and even at this exact point, it is impossible for Cousins to get that ball out because if he pulls it back to throw, he would be stripped sacked because you can see Quinn's arm directly behind Cousins. So essentially, what this is saying is that he would have had to get this out even earlier than at the time of this screenshot, so even quicker than 1.97 seconds, when clearly the WRs arent even close to coming out of their routes given they arent even out of them during this shot.

It literally baffles me that a fan is questioning Cousins on this play, saying he got scared, skittish and hesitated and didnt get rid of the ball quick enough when a DE goes unblocked and on his lap in 1.97 seconds. Literally BAFFLES me!! That sir, is indeed hunting for dirt. Fans are getting THIS nitpicky with Cousins and how quick he gets the ball out. Never have I seen this with any other Vikings QB, ever. If he holds the ball too long and gets sacked, by all means, say he held it too long. But 1.97 seconds when he had a free rusher on his blindside...and you're going to say he's at fault? Give me a break dude

I'd love to see a stat of how often a QB is sacked when the OL lets a DE go unblocked on the QBs blindside. I guarantee that any NFL QB gets sacked on this exact play. Wilson, Mahomes, I dont care who, they are getting sacked AND/OR stripped on this play 10 times out of 10.

And another thing that kills me....

After Cousins wins a big primetime game (something he supposedly cant do), after Cousins beats a winning team (something he supposedly cant do), after Cousins plays very well and doesnt turn the ball over (something he is often criticized for), after we have a record now of 7-3 (Cousins always criticized for his records)......THIS is what it has come to. Dissecting the ONE sack he took all game when he had a free rusher coming at his blindside. Blows. My. Mind.

You know, I've learned that some fans (mostly the Cousins haters) will ALWAYS find a way to complain about something Cousins did. Win, loss or draw, it's just in their nature at this point. And it just further proves my point that this guy never got a fair shot from the start with many fans, media, etc. Instead of enjoying the win, getting excited about the team and how Kirk is playing, it's like some fans HAVE to find something he did wrong otherwise they wont be satisfied with themselves. They go on a mission to HUNT for something he did wrong. Again, I've never seen fans come at a QB like they do Cousins. Never in my life. And the sad thing is, he didnt even do anything wrong here!! This could have EASILY been a strip sack, Reiff failed to execute and Cousins protected the ball. Imagine what guys would be saying if he fumbled there. Instead he protects it but guys still want to claim he got "skittish and hesitated" and that's why he got sacked. Just unbelievable. You guys must think that we have the greatest OL to ever step on a football field given how much you complain about Cousins holding the ball too long and taking sacks.

That's a heck of a picture right there. 71 blows. You guys make your points. But bringing Rodgers into a conversation with Cousins isn't really fair. Rodgers is a future HOFer. Cousins won't make the Vikings ring of honor. He blows compared to Rodgers Big difference. Cunningham lead our team to 15-1 and held the ball a long time and it took forever to get the pass off because of that extra long delivery. So how long a QB holds the ball has no impact on record. Yes Case lead us to 13 wins. But that had nothing to do with him. We beat the Pack twice that year. We shut them out. Case didn't do that. If we shut the Pack out again this year Cousins like Case will get the win. Will our D do that? Nope. We beat the crap out of the Bears twice. We can't beat them this year. One thing the Bears weren't as good in 2017. Mack wasn't even there. So Case had zero to do with that 13-3 record. Yes he took the snaps. When we needed him to step up in the NFC Champ game he took the beat down like the bum he is. Didn't even fight back. That's why he was cut and we signed Cousins. Don't take that as if we are set. QB is still at the top of our needs list. We need to get even with the Pack. Otherwise our D needs to be much better than theirs to even it up. Right now we are about even in D.

[The negotiator]

The one you want to be.

No I can answer that for him. He's concerned with the current record he has here because that's all that matters. Not living in Cousins past and continuing to hold it against him like 99.9% of the Cousins haters do.

There’s an interesting article on twitter from Nick Olsen@ NickOlsenNFL in the past couple of days “Updated QB
Ratings by EPA/Play and Passing Grade”. I can’t bring it on to the thread.
Interesting chart. Wondering if anyone has the skills to transfer it over to this thread. Worthwhile QB comparison for 2019.

[Dames]

No I can answer that for him. He's concerned with the current record he has here because that's all that matters. Not living in Cousins past and continuing to hold it against him like 99.9% of the Cousins haters do.

There’s an interesting article on twitter from Nick Olsen@ NickOlsenNFL in the past couple of days “Updated QB
Ratings by EPA/Play and Passing Grade”. I can’t bring it on to the thread.
Interesting chart. Wondering if anyone has the skills to transfer it over to this thread. Worthwhile QB comparison for 2019.

https://twitter.com/NickOlsonNFL/status ... 4649143296

Up and to the right is best.

[The negotiator]

The one you want to be.

No I can answer that for him. He's concerned with the current record he has here because that's all that matters. Not living in Cousins past and continuing to hold it against him like 99.9% of the Cousins haters do.

It’s Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
One letter off. My bad