Crucify the OC as well

[StumpHunter]

What is there to not understand about the numbers? QBs who hold the ball longer get pressured more than QBs who get rid of it quickly. That isn't complicated it is common sense.

I did update my Dak comment for clarity. Rodgers actually showed a great example of it in last night's game, escaping the pocket BEFORE getting pressured and throwing a TD to Graham.

Based on common sense just throw quick slants all day and there will be no pressure. No sacks. Not much yardage either. What if a team has a game breaker like Moss for example the QB will need to let him run his route. Yes he's a 4.2 guy I guess but it still takes time for him to clear. Now a QB can just throw it as far as he can right off the bat. Guess what the WR won't be there. The QB needs to let him run his route. I seen Rodgers against us on the 1st pass play. He could have stood there all day. There was nothing around him. DL guys were on the ground. Why throw at that point? He needed to hold it longer for the TD strike. Don't you realize the route also plays a part in this? That's only common sense.

Yes, that is a play that happened against the Packers. You make a point.

There are good QBs who run elite offenses who get rid of the ball quickly. Holding the ball forever is not a prerequisite for scoring lots of TDs.

[Laserman]

The O.C. Needs to pull the naked bootleg out of the playbook till the playoffs. Every D.C. we go against KNOWS we are gonna run this quite a bit and they prepare for it. It worked good the first game or so till teams began to game plan for it. The successful team don't run the same plays all the time like we are doing. Find the defense's weak points and choose plays designed to exploit it at key times in the game. And this will change from game to game. We seem to just run our best plays and Pray it works.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm not trying to be an as# by any means. But let's be realistic here. It's tough to engage in conversation when we're talking about the OL and then he's chiming in saying Cousins this and Cousins that. Or the defense, or anything else. We could have a thread on here regarding special teams and somehow Cousins name will be brought up in it. I wish there was a tally on this board that registered how many times the name "Cousins" was typed. It's gotta be a record. Probably blows Ponders out of the water. I couldnt tell you the last time I saw someone defend the OL on this board as a whole. But we've now gotten to that point. Simply because they are run blocking well, which we were not referring to. It was the pass blocking.

O'Neill is an excellent pass blocker and is even blocking well in the run this year. Reiff is hit/miss. Kline has been decent. Bradbury and Elflein have been brutal in pass protection. From a pass blocking standpoint compared to last year, the only improvement I see is Kline. We've always had Reiff and O'Neill. Elflein is continuing to struggle. And Bradbury has been getting bullied. Maybe this OL is slightly better right now but it's not much. Especially the interior. Nobody expected Bradbury to be this bad in pass pro. Granted he's a rookie but he has really struggled. I think we really need to move Reiff to RT and O'Neill to LT but it's nothing they will do mid-year is my guess. Overall, this OL still needs to improve quite a bit. I said I liked the Kline signing when it happened because he was always a good pass protector outside of last season. But Bradbury and Elflein (and sometimes Reiff) are killing us in pass pro. Regardless, this OL is still an issue.

They have given up only 3 sacks this year and have the leading rusher. I don't think the Oline has been a significant issue so far.

It isn't a good enough line to stop the Bears from getting to Cousins, but it has been good enough for the first three games.

Again, the only team that had a legitimate pass rush (GB) got a legitimate amount of pressure on cousins. Atlanta and Oakland are bottom barrel pass rush teams. So saying the OL hasn’t been much of an issue so far isn’t saying much. We’ll see what they can come Sunday

And don’t you think that maybe there are less sacks because 1.) we haven’t faced good pass rush teams outside of GB and 2.) cousins has done a much better job evading the rush this year than he did last year? I doubt you give credit but that’s a fact.

[J. Kapp 11]

The O.C. Needs to pull the naked bootleg out of the playbook till the playoffs. Every D.C. we go against KNOWS we are gonna run this quite a bit and they prepare for it. It worked good the first game or so till teams began to game plan for it. The successful team don't run the same plays all the time like we are doing. Find the defense's weak points and choose plays designed to exploit it at key times in the game. And this will change from game to game. We seem to just run our best plays and Pray it works.

In case you missed it, the touchdown pass to Thielen against Oakland was off play-action with a bootleg.

You guys act as if the Vikings' coaching staff doesn't know to exploit weaknesses.

[CharVike]

The O.C. Needs to pull the naked bootleg out of the playbook till the playoffs. Every D.C. we go against KNOWS we are gonna run this quite a bit and they prepare for it. It worked good the first game or so till teams began to game plan for it. The successful team don't run the same plays all the time like we are doing. Find the defense's weak points and choose plays designed to exploit it at key times in the game. And this will change from game to game. We seem to just run our best plays and Pray it works.

In case you missed it, the touchdown pass to Thielen against Oakland was off play-action with a bootleg.

You guys act as if the Vikings' coaching staff doesn't know to exploit weaknesses.

Who cares about Oakland. They rolled over. Anything would work. This OC gets his chance on Sunday. Based on my viewing he can't spot a weakness. That is also true for the defense. Bears have a very hard time scoring a weakness if you will. Now Zim needs to exploit that. We'll see what happens. Being afraid to run plays because the DC knows what we will do is the wrong approach. Every DC knows what every team will do. Even I know when you play Green Bay Rodgers will put the ball up a lot. And he's not a dink and dunk guy. He'll stick the dagger in you. Now this Adams guy is his go to, I'm not a DC and know that. Plus the OL can pass block. In some peoples view Rodgers to Adams is wrong. DC know that. Hand it off to some stiff is better. No it's not because they won't win.

[J. Kapp 11]

In case you missed it, the touchdown pass to Thielen against Oakland was off play-action with a bootleg.

You guys act as if the Vikings' coaching staff doesn't know to exploit weaknesses.

Who cares about Oakland. They rolled over. Anything would work. This OC gets his chance on Sunday. Based on my viewing he can't spot a weakness. That is also true for the defense. Bears have a very hard time scoring a weakness if you will. Now Zim needs to exploit that. We'll see what happens. Being afraid to run plays because the DC knows what we will do is the wrong approach. Every DC knows what every team will do. Even I know when you play Green Bay Rodgers will put the ball up a lot. And he's not a dink and dunk guy. He'll stick the dagger in you. Now this Adams guy is his go to, I'm not a DC and know that. Plus the OL can pass block. In some peoples view Rodgers to Adams is wrong. DC know that. Hand it off to some stiff is better. No it's not because they won't win.

OK, here we go again. Based on your expert viewing. Whatever, man.

Here's a news flash. You don't know the OC's motives. You don't know what he's thinking, and you don't know what he's good at spotting or not good at spotting. You only can see the result of the plays, which any fan can do. That makes comments like "being afraid to run plays because the DC knows what we'll do" ... well, just another uninformed opinion.

So unless Kevin Stefanski has actually told you his motives, please stop acting like an expert. You're not. None of us are.

[StumpHunter]

They have given up only 3 sacks this year and have the leading rusher. I don't think the Oline has been a significant issue so far.

It isn't a good enough line to stop the Bears from getting to Cousins, but it has been good enough for the first three games.

Again, the only team that had a legitimate pass rush (GB) got a legitimate amount of pressure on cousins. Atlanta and Oakland are bottom barrel pass rush teams. So saying the OL hasn’t been much of an issue so far isn’t saying much. We’ll see what they can come Sunday

And don’t you think that maybe there are less sacks because 1.) we haven’t faced good pass rush teams outside of GB and 2.) cousins has done a much better job evading the rush this year than he did last year? I doubt you give credit but that’s a fact.

I do think playing two bad defenses has helped and Cousins has been running more when the pocket has collapsed, instead of just taking a sack or throwing a bad pass.

I also think holding the ball too long is the biggest reason he was pressured so much against GB. Not every time he was pressured, but most of the time.

[CharVike]

Who cares about Oakland. They rolled over. Anything would work. This OC gets his chance on Sunday. Based on my viewing he can't spot a weakness. That is also true for the defense. Bears have a very hard time scoring a weakness if you will. Now Zim needs to exploit that. We'll see what happens. Being afraid to run plays because the DC knows what we will do is the wrong approach. Every DC knows what every team will do. Even I know when you play Green Bay Rodgers will put the ball up a lot. And he's not a dink and dunk guy. He'll stick the dagger in you. Now this Adams guy is his go to, I'm not a DC and know that. Plus the OL can pass block. In some peoples view Rodgers to Adams is wrong. DC know that. Hand it off to some stiff is better. No it's not because they won't win.

OK, here we go again. Based on your expert viewing. Whatever, man.

Here's a news flash. You don't know the OC's motives. You don't know what he's thinking, and you don't know what he's good at spotting or not good at spotting. You only can see the result of the plays, which any fan can do. That makes comments like "being afraid to run plays because the DC knows what we'll do" ... well, just another uninformed opinion.

So unless Kevin Stefanski has actually told you his motives, please stop acting like an expert. You're not. None of us are.

I never claimed to be an expert. I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again. Your correct that I have no idea what they do or what the motive is. My main point was to use what you do best even if the other team knows what you do best. That's what I would do. That's only my opinion. But our guy could have a different motive and do something totally different. He's the boss and I'm a fan. I hope we play well Sunday. This is a big game for us.

[fiestavike]

The O.C. Needs to pull the naked bootleg out of the playbook till the playoffs. Every D.C. we go against KNOWS we are gonna run this quite a bit and they prepare for it. It worked good the first game or so till teams began to game plan for it. The successful team don't run the same plays all the time like we are doing. Find the defense's weak points and choose plays designed to exploit it at key times in the game. And this will change from game to game. We seem to just run our best plays and Pray it works.

That play is part of the running game. It keeps the defense honest, or if it doesn't it exploits that dishonesty. Its good if they prepare for it. It removes a player from the run defense UNBLOCKED which is a pretty big advantage. If they don't stay honest it will get exploited in the passing game by once again essentially removing a pass rusher UNBLOCKED.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Again, the only team that had a legitimate pass rush (GB) got a legitimate amount of pressure on cousins. Atlanta and Oakland are bottom barrel pass rush teams. So saying the OL hasn’t been much of an issue so far isn’t saying much. We’ll see what they can come Sunday

And don’t you think that maybe there are less sacks because 1.) we haven’t faced good pass rush teams outside of GB and 2.) cousins has done a much better job evading the rush this year than he did last year? I doubt you give credit but that’s a fact.

I do think playing two bad defenses has helped and Cousins has been running more when the pocket has collapsed, instead of just taking a sack or throwing a bad pass.

I also think holding the ball too long is the biggest reason he was pressured so much against GB. Not every time he was pressured, but most of the time.

GB actually has a legit pass rush compared to the other teams. GB has 12 sacks on the year. That’s 2nd in the nfl. The OL is STILL a problem when it comes to pass blocking! Blame it on cohsins holding the ball all you want. The majority of pressures came against the team that actually has a legit pass rush. Yeah....weird. But saying “we’ve only given up 3 sacks” is a poor argument given we’ve faced 2 bottom barrel pass rush teams. I’m sure it’d be a lot more if the teams were different. Just because they’ve given up 3 sacks doesnt mean they are much improved from last year. They aren’t. And it will show against better teams.

[CharVike]

The under pressure stat is a guess. No one knows what the blocking scheme call was. So it's impossible to know what caused the pressure or even a sack. I can only tell by watching. I seen Mack bust free and nail Case and to me it was bad blocking. Maybe it was something else and the possibilities are almost endless especially when nobody knows the blocking call. I found this for 2018 but who knows how it was measured. But this is throwing the ball fast. Under 2.5 seconds which some feel is the most important and it could be.
The Ten QBs who threw most often under 2.5 seconds.
Big Ben 60.3%
Flacco 56.9
Beathard 56.1
Foles 55.9
Dalton 55.7
Brees 55.3
Rivers 55.0
Manning 54.6
Carr 54.5
Driskel 54.2

I don't even know who some of these guys are in the top 10 but they throw fast which is considered a great thing.
Tom Brady, who has a reputation for throwing the ball fast was ranked 12th. Basically middle of the pack. Which is a bad thing.

To my untrained view I think Cousins gets plenty of pressure. I also think Rodgers gets better protection based on what I watch. Many things could have caused this. Including my own viewing ability. I thought I seen Rodgers standing there with nothing around him. I also thought I seen our guy under heat big time. Maybe that's not true. IDK

[StumpHunter]

I do think playing two bad defenses has helped and Cousins has been running more when the pocket has collapsed, instead of just taking a sack or throwing a bad pass.

I also think holding the ball too long is the biggest reason he was pressured so much against GB. Not every time he was pressured, but most of the time.

GB actually has a legit pass rush compared to the other teams. GB has 12 sacks on the year. That’s 2nd in the nfl. The OL is STILL a problem when it comes to pass blocking! Blame it on cohsins holding the ball all you want. The majority of pressures came against the team that actually has a legit pass rush. Yeah....weird. But saying “we’ve only given up 3 sacks” is a poor argument given we’ve faced 2 bottom barrel pass rush teams. I’m sure it’d be a lot more if the teams were different. Just because they’ve given up 3 sacks doesnt mean they are much improved from last year. They aren’t. And it will show against better teams.

They only gave up 1 to a team that averaged 4 sacks a game against all teams that aren't the Vikings.

Seems pretty good to me, and the fact that Cousins was pressured a lot when holding the ball forever doesn't mean that the line was bad. It means they were asked to hold their blocks too long.

[StumpHunter]

The under pressure stat is a guess. No one knows what the blocking scheme call was. So it's impossible to know what caused the pressure or even a sack. I can only tell by watching. I seen Mack bust free and nail Case and to me it was bad blocking. Maybe it was something else and the possibilities are almost endless especially when nobody knows the blocking call. I found this for 2018 but who knows how it was measured. But this is throwing the ball fast. Under 2.5 seconds which some feel is the most important and it could be.
The Ten QBs who threw most often under 2.5 seconds.
Big Ben 60.3%
Flacco 56.9
Beathard 56.1
Foles 55.9
Dalton 55.7
Brees 55.3
Rivers 55.0
Manning 54.6
Carr 54.5
Driskel 54.2

I don't even know who some of these guys are in the top 10 but they throw fast which is considered a great thing.
Tom Brady, who has a reputation for throwing the ball fast was ranked 12th. Basically middle of the pack. Which is a bad thing.

To my untrained view I think Cousins gets plenty of pressure. I also think Rodgers gets better protection based on what I watch. Many things could have caused this. Including my own viewing ability. I thought I seen Rodgers standing there with nothing around him. I also thought I seen our guy under heat big time. Maybe that's not true. IDK

Brady was 4th among full time starters in time to throw. The 4 best pure pocket passers in the NFL in 2018 all were in the top 10.

It is the key for longevity and consistent success for that type of QB.

[dead_poet]

Are we really still debating whether or not the Vikings offensive line is a liability in pass protection? Wow.

I'm not even mad at this point. I'm impressed.

[Pondering Her Percy]

GB actually has a legit pass rush compared to the other teams. GB has 12 sacks on the year. That’s 2nd in the nfl. The OL is STILL a problem when it comes to pass blocking! Blame it on cohsins holding the ball all you want. The majority of pressures came against the team that actually has a legit pass rush. Yeah....weird. But saying “we’ve only given up 3 sacks” is a poor argument given we’ve faced 2 bottom barrel pass rush teams. I’m sure it’d be a lot more if the teams were different. Just because they’ve given up 3 sacks doesnt mean they are much improved from last year. They aren’t. And it will show against better teams.

They only gave up 1 to a team that averaged 4 sacks a game against all teams that aren't the Vikings.

Seems pretty good to me, and the fact that Cousins was pressured a lot when holding the ball forever doesn't mean that the line was bad. It means they were asked to hold their blocks too long.

Or did you ever think that cousins got rid of the ball before the sack got there? Something he’s done well this year. Pass blocking isn’t all about the OL holding their blocks so sacks don’t happen but about the QB getting rid of the ball. When you get pressured on 60% or pass blocking snaps, it’s more of a kudos to cousins for only taking 1 sack. The pressure was there, the sacks weren’t. Cousins got rid of the ball before the sack happened.

Don’t you find it odd that you’re the only guy (in probably the last 5 years) that is defending the OLs pass blocking as a whole?