Vikings Message Board.Com

Mothman wrote:If we look at those QBs: Jackson, Bollinger, Frerotte, Holcomb, Favre, Webb, Ponder, Cassel, Rosenthal, Bridgewater... what stands out as another consistent factor and which of those players is not like the others?

I mean no offense but I think it's a reach to suggest AD is the problem. If anything, they've done him a disservice by putting a series of rookies, backups and journeymen on the field at QB for most of his career.

That has been the general idea throughout the entire debacle. I'm just trying to point out some other constants throughout our passing drought. Pedestrian QBs (although I still think Teddy will be better than pedestrian) have been constants. AD is another. Other constants have been Spielman and Zygi. What else?

Obviously we can bring in a HOF QB and break through the drought. Favre did play well with AD. He also played well with random dudes like Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, and Ryan Grant (I did that from memory! The joys of growing up in Wisconsin).

Bigwehrm wrote:Kapernick would be worth a shot. He at least has a cannon and can improvise with his freak athletic ability. Could be brought in for cheap and have a competition.

With our Oline? The D would get the exchange between QB and RB with the read option. I'd rather have Kap then Hill, but im not big on either.

losperros wrote:A fairly terse article by Michael Rand. I can't say I disagree with him. Here's a taste...
http://www.startribune.com/against-top- ... 360727901/

Thanks for the link. I wish I could disagree with him...

I think the only plan Zimmer can possible have in mind to draft and Develop the OLine and pray TB comes around and draft a QB.

YUP.....but SPielman seems to refuse to believe you need to invest in the OL......he will say its too early to give up on SUlly, Loadholt and Khalil......non of whom will everr be better then they have been in the past and likely will only get worse.

chicagopurple wrote:YUP.....but SPielman seems to refuse to believe you need to invest in the OL......he will say its too early to give up on SUlly, Loadholt and Khalil......non of whom will everr be better then they have been in the past and likely will only get worse.

Bull. To everything. Kalil had an excellent rookie year and has been pretty significantly injured since with this being the only year he's seemingly been remotely healthy since his rookie year and has been far from the biggest problem on the line. Sullivan has been a top-5 center the last three years when healthy. Loadholt has been a top-10 RT that's a dominant run blocker and ascending pass-blocker. Fully healthy, these three are above-average starting NFL linemen.

Now we'll get to your point about Spielman refusing to "invest" in the offensive line.

Matt Kalil was the fourth-overall draft pick.
Phil Loadholt was a second-round draft pick.
John Sullivan was a a sixth-rounder but as he developed into a premiere center in the league the Vikings rewarded him with a six-year, $25 million contract in 2011.
Brandon Fusco was a sixth-rounder but he also developed into an above-average RG. The Vikings rewarded him with a five-year, $25 million contract extension.
Joe Berger was a sixth-rounder that developed into an above-average depth/backup. He filled in well last season for Sullivan and continues to do so. The Vikings rewarded him with a two-year, $2.155 million contract this past offseason.

Whether it's high draft picks or contract extensions, Rick has "invested" in the offensive line save for one guard position. Is it enough? That'd debatable but there's talent and an investment here (and let's forget that you have to be a first or second-rounder to be considered "talented").

Is it too early to give up on Kalil, Sullivan and Loadholt? I would say absolutely. We're seeing what the line looks like without two of those three right now. They're clearly better than their replacements. Look...I want this line to get better, not worse. You usually don't get better by cutting your best players, especially if you don't anything in the way of a legitimate replacement for them. That's just wishful thinking. I would bring every single one back while also drafting and/or acquiring more talent during the offseason. The best players make the 53 and start.

Fusco has been very unimpressive, Khalil has been a bust and a penalty factory. Sully has verterbral disc problems which will never fully heal to normal. Loadholt is the ONLY guy that MAY resume his normal baseline but its an injury which tends to recur with some frequency. Their line has been suspect for years. Berger is just a journeyman back up. Smell the coffee........The only reason these guys looked remotely hopeful in the past was because they had an epic RB on the team who could tear up the field without much Ol blocking in his favor.

For the last few years this weak spot has been very obvious and we havent adressed it.

chicagopurple wrote:Fusco has been very unimpressive, Khalil has been a bust and a penalty factory. Sully has verterbral disc problems which will never fully heal to normal. Loadholt is the ONLY guy that MAY resume his normal baseline but its an injury which tends to recur with some frequency. Their line has been suspect for years. Berger is just a journeyman back up. Smell the coffee........The only reason these guys looked remotely hopeful in the past was because they had an epic RB on the team who could tear up the field without much Ol blocking in his favor.

For the last few years this weak spot has been very obvious and we havent adressed it.

Kalil is a bust?? He's been our only good offensive lineman this year. Harris hasnt been too bad either. But to say Kalil is a bust has zero logic behind it.

I don't have the answer , but I know that it is pretty damn hard to find a franchise QB. How many teams are truly set at QB? I'll give you my guys, Brady ,Brees,Rodgers,Luck,Palmer,Rivers, Newton,Roethlisberger, Wilson, Romo, Eli Manning. Jury is out on Dalton, Winston ,Mariota, Carr, Bortles. That is half of the league, out of these guys seven have a decent shot of making the playoffs,also look at the ages of some of these guys . A lot of teams are still searching or soon will be again.

Khalil had a few good games but he had more mediocre ones and a LOT of drive killing stupid penalties due to being overwhelmed. And, once again, he is injured. Khalil is no one to bank on.

chicagopurple wrote:Khalil had a few good games but he had more mediocre ones and a LOT of drive killing stupid penalties due to being overwhelmed. And, once again, he is injured. Khalil is no one to bank on.

I'm curious: why do you insist on misspelling his name? I assume it's intentional.

not at all intentional......but I guess subconciously the only way I wanna spell him is ""GONE".

chicagopurple wrote:not at all intentional......but I guess subconciously the only way I wanna spell him is ""GONE".

Okay, I just assumed you were making a play on words or a reference of some kind.

chicagopurple wrote:Khalil had a few good games but he had more mediocre ones and a LOT of drive killing stupid penalties due to being overwhelmed. And, once again, he is injured. Khalil is no one to bank on.

I disagree. For the longest time this year, he didn't allow one sack. That means you're playing pretty damn good. He had a bad game against GB and had a toe issue that game. Outside of that, he's been pretty solid this year

And to get rid of a young offensive lineman that is starting to come back around to where he was his rookie year just has zero logic behind it

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I disagree. For the longest time this year, he didn't allow one sack. That means you're playing pretty damn good. He had a bad game against GB and had a toe issue that game. Outside of that, he's been pretty solid this year

Let's put it this way: they have much more immediate concerns on the o-line than replacing Kalil.