Stadium thread

[Demi]

I dont recall Pawlenty saying he would.

Well that's even better!

[glg]

Who determines if a referendum is necessary?

Current state law says one is necessary, so a stadium bill would have to specifically say one isn't required or there would be one. Twins bill said one wasn't required.

[PurpleMustReign]

Current state law says one is necessary, so a stadium bill would have to specifically say one isn't required or there would be one. Twins bill said one wasn't required.

would Dayton approve a deal if it side stepped a referendum?

[BGM]

I agree. Im actually a big Vikings fan, but opposed to public funding. My problem with the govt is they need to make A decision. Whatever their decision is, make it already. If they want the Vikings, figure out a way to make it happen. If they dont, put it to a public vote, when it gets voted down and they leave, they can say "Well, its what the public wanted."

Lester Bagley and the Wilfs certainly have done a terrible job planning, and selling their plan, no doubt about it. But the state has them jumping through hoops for what?? It looks to me like they have little or no interest in funding the thing, so just say as much. Proportionally, the Wilfs are contributing more than nearly any owner in the NFL (Jones and the Giants/Jets stadiums), so they are trying and they are consistent or better than other teams, and those teams are in much, much larger markets. Again, Im not for the state giving them anything, but as I have stated, its hardly the only thing the state does that I dont agree with. One way or another, they need to put this to rest.

Yes, I can see your point. A decision does need to be made. Too much angling for position and not enough commitment.

[CalVike]

Current state law says one is necessary, so a stadium bill would have to specifically say one isn't required or there would be one. Twins bill said one wasn't required.

It may get complicated.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_18787683

The Minnesota Constitution gives the state Legislature the right to empower county commissioners to pass a countywide tax without first seeking voter approval. That scenario played out not long ago in Hennepin County, where county commissioners passed a 0.15 percent tax to fund a new stadium for the Minnesota Twins - without voters ever getting a chance to weigh in at the ballot box.

The same could happen in Ramsey County, where Ramsey County commissioners Tony Bennett and Rafael Ortega are pushing for a new Arden Hills stadium for the Vikings, funded in part by a 0.5 percent countywide tax. There's a key difference in the process, however, and it has to do with the county charter.

Cilek sees competing clauses in the state Constitution. Article XII, Section 2, does indeed give the county commissioners certain taxing authority, with or without voter support, provided they first have the go-ahead from the state Legislature.

However, Cilek believes that same power granted by the state Constitution is superseded by another - the part of Article XII, Section 2 that allows voters in charter counties to review and repeal any county ordinance and propose their own. Unlike Hennepin County, Ramsey County is the only county in the state that gives voters that right through its own home-rule charter.

In other words, passing a countywide tax without voter approval would seemingly sidestep the powers granted to taxpayers by the county charter. Charter commissioners have gone on record saying that could be the basis of a bitter lawsuit.

Others are skeptical that county voters can supercede state legislation. "You have to remember who created the counties," said Bennett, adding, "I am not a legal expert."

[CalVike]

Much of this may be stating the obvious.

(1) The Vikings did a nice job at the 11th hour pulling out a local partner after years and years of failing.
(2) The timing of finding the local partner was especially lousy. It was very late in a legislative session where the legislature and governor could not agree at all on a state budget. It was during an NFL ownership lockout of players that had lawsuits playing out in District Court in Minnesota.
(3) There will be no special session. For a special session to occur, the legislature must show an indication they will support $300M in state funding of the team AND support the waiver of a state law requiring a referendum on a 0.5% local sales tax increase in Ramsay County. Every indication is that the current legislature will oppose BOTH requirements under ALL circumstances. That's why the Senate majority leader and Speaker of the House came out this week saying the referendum was a good idea, it allows them to separate from their decision not to support the stadium. The governor's position is irrelevant without legislature support.
(4) With these decisions, the powers that be in Minnesota have fully given up their right to preemptive action by building a stadium before it is subject to a bidding war.
(5) On Feb. 1, 2012, the Metrodome lease will expire and the stadium efforts will play out in the context of the team's having every right to relocate. They may well choose to do so, which is a totally acceptable decision for them to make.
(6) If you add up the public contribution to the Wild, Twins, and Gopher football stadium, it is not significantly higher than the $650M public contribution the Vikings are seeking.
(7) It was very well publicized during the labor strife that the NFL is a $9B industry, it does not help the Vikings case for public funding that this figure was so public so recently, especially in a time of high unemployment. The league can easily afford to build it's own stadiums.
(8) The Vikings are a well-supported NFL team by their fan base and the NFL would be wise to keep this in mind before allowing the team to relocate. I do not think they will so do. I think the team is likely to move on out because the stadium plan is so unlikely to come to fruition.
(9) One can argue the Wilf's are stepping up by contributing $407M. This is an impressive contribution. But they also are paying for the right to ancillary development. Their best past chance in the legislature was their partnership with Anoka County, which they quickly gave up when they thought the prospects of buying the parking lots near the Metrodome was an opportunity for more ancillary development and owner profits before they gave up the idea when the economy tanked. Their drawings of a convention center in their plans for Arden Hills that came out this week show that this is far less about football than the proponents claim.
(10) The original State bill called for naming rights to go toward paying back the State. The Viking-supported bill took the naming rights for the team. The team has not agreed to pay any cost overruns, something the Pohlads ended up doing for the Twins stadium. These factors will need to be resolved before anything gets done and could affect the governor's support.
(11) As a lifelong Viking fan, I am hopeful the legislature and governor prove me wrong and gets the stadium deal done by the end of November 2011.
(12) As a participant in National, State, and Local government, I fully understand if the State and Local leaders (and/or the general public via a referendum) decide there are better uses of finite public funding than the National Football League.

[Mercy Percy]

You are from cali though so why wouldnt you want the vikings to move to L.A

[thatguy]

You are from cali though so why wouldnt you want the vikings to move to L.A

I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and I don't want the Vikings to come to me. They belong in Minnesota. They are a huge part of my life and a big reason why I'm proud to say that I'm originally from Minnesota.

[glg]

I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and I don't want the Vikings to come to me. They belong in Minnesota. They are a huge part of my life and a big reason why I'm proud to say that I'm originally from Minnesota.

^ this

[hibbingviking]

I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and I don't want the Vikings to come to me. They belong in Minnesota. They are a huge part of my life and a big reason why I'm proud to say that I'm originally from Minnesota.

i was born and raised in minnesota. i live closer to LA now. i would love too see the chargers or 49ers come to LA and the vikings stay where they belong.

[CalVike]

You are from cali though so why wouldnt you want the vikings to move to L.A

Fair comment. But I'm from Minnesota. I will not follow the Los Angeles Vikings. A part of me will die if they leave Minnesota. My memories go back to "Pearson pushed off," games at the old Met, and the less thrilling teams with Jarvis Redwine, Buster "I'm excited to play in Ohio" Rhymes, Alfred Anderson, Ted Brown, Tommy Kramer, and Joey Browner. I was a big North Star fan and completely lost interest when they moved to Dallas, even though I lived in Michigan at the time. I imagine the same feelings of loss will occur for me if the Vikes move out of Minnesota.

[hibbingviking]

Fair comment. But I'm from Minnesota. I will not follow the Los Angeles Vikings. A part of me will die if they leave Minnesota. My memories go back to "Pearson pushed off," games at the old Met, and the less thrilling teams with Jarvis Redwine, Buster "I'm excited to play in Ohio" Rhymes, Alfred Anderson, Ted Brown, Tommy Kramer, and Joey Browner. I was a big North Star fan and completely lost interest when they moved to Dallas, even though I lived in Michigan at the time. I imagine the same feelings of loss will occur for me if the Vikes move out of Minnesota.

as much as i would love to be near a pro team in LA i wont follow the nfl at all if the vikings move. too many good memories and too many good times in minnesota.

[thatguy]

Fair comment. But I'm from Minnesota. I will not follow the Los Angeles Vikings. A part of me will die if they leave Minnesota. My memories go back to "Pearson pushed off," games at the old Met, and the less thrilling teams with Jarvis Redwine, Buster "I'm excited to play in Ohio" Rhymes, Alfred Anderson, Ted Brown, Tommy Kramer, and Joey Browner. I was a big North Star fan and completely lost interest when they moved to Dallas, even though I lived in Michigan at the time. I imagine the same feelings of loss will occur for me if the Vikes move out of Minnesota.

While I haven't been around nearly as long to have those same memories, I remember crying as I left the metrodome in '98 after the Vikings lost to the Falcons. Even though I felt terrible that day, those are the feelings that remind me that I absolutely love this team, and they are a bigger part of my life than most things (obviously not friends and family, but close). Call it unhealthy or just passionate, I love the Vikings, and the only reason I was ever a fan was because I was born in South Dakota and lived in Minnesota for the majority of my life, and believe it or not, the Vikings are a huge part of my childhood memories. You can't take that to a completely different state and expect me to feel the same way about it. Would I love to be able to watch my team out here on the East coast every single week if they moved this way? Sure. But I give up the ability to watch them every week still happy knowing that they're playing representing my actual home state.

Think about that. I'm just one person. There are thousands more people that know more about this team than I do and that have experienced far more than I ever could have with this team. How could anyone take anything like that from not just 1 person, but thousands of people? Just take a look at the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary about the Baltimore Colts, and you see old, grown men still cry when they hear about their team packing up and leaving.

It hurts to think about it guys. A lot of people may say that it's just football and just a game that millionaires play, but it's more than that.

[jackal]

I agree I love the Vikings

my trips to Minnesota were awesome. I have seen some great games
there. Thats the point in LA they wouldn't be the Vikings anymore.

If they move to L.A. I won't follow them and I might be moving to
LA as well. L.A. is a cool place but its not Minnesota.

unfortunatly I don't think a lot of people in Minnesota realize what
they have. I think the Vikings will leave and I can't say I blame them.
Those people that are fighting a small tax increase might really get affected
when they tax base and jobs the Vikings create leave the area.

[Lash Man]

I agree I love the Vikings

my trips to Minnesota were awesome. I have seen some great games
there. Thats the point in LA they wouldn't be the Vikings anymore.

If they move to L.A. I won't follow them and I might be moving to
LA as well. L.A. is a cool place but its not Minnesota.

unfortunatly I don't think a lot of people in Minnesota realize what
they have. I think the Vikings will leave and I can't say I blame them.
Those people that are fighting a small tax increase might really get affected
when they tax base and jobs the Vikings create leave the area.

Yep the average person seems to have great difficulty seeing the forest through the trees, the economy would suffer greatly if the Vikes move and all jobs that are NFL related or dependent would be gone also. The team and the local politicians do not do an adequate job informing the average taxpayer.