Packer Post Game Postings

[Mothman]

Last night made it really clear that there is no way we're going anywhere in the playoffs. We will lose our first game, almost certainly, and if we happen to pull one out, we'll lose the next. We've not shown any ability to win against a good team on the road. Last night, we couldn't even do it at home, in one of the loudest stadiums in the league.

As Kapp said, last night was a gut punch. For me, it was a sucker punch--didn't see it coming, so I didn't flex the abs! haha. It's a miracle that we keep coming back to this team. We're suckers. Daily Norseman Stock Report article (linked upthread) puts it in Charlie Brown terms, Lucy keeps pulling the football away and we end up on our backs, thunderstruck. And, yet, we get up and try it again, thinking, "this time it's going to be different!" We're a ship of fools.

It's true and we'll all be back for more. The darn team played just well enough this season after that loss to the Bears to get me thinking, like Charlie Brown, that maybe this is the time the ball won't get yanked away at the last minute. Going into Monday night's game, I didn't just feel hopeful the Vikes would win, I felt confident. Confident! What was I thinking?!

I'm definitely a sucker.

[Mothman]

I think it was like that whole game. There were no running lanes. The Packer DL were in the backfield almost immediately on pretty much every snap in the first half, running or passing. I don't think it had anything to do with the playcalling being one dimensional or the way Cousins was playing. The Vikings offensive linemen were getting ragdolled from the first snap.

They certainly didn't play well but I think play calling was definitely a factor. It was extremely predictable. I haven't gone through the play-by-play to check but I'm betting they ran on the vast majority of first and second downs in the first half. They probably did a fair amount of it in the second half too, although as time and trailing on the scoreboard became bigger factors, I think they passed more.

They seemed to come into the game believing they'd be able to exert their will in the running game and successfully run Boone between the tackles. It sure worked out great.

[Mothman]

But something is missing. Even a blind Viking monk who has lived his entire life in the northern-most reaches of Sweden can see that.

That was a great line!

[Pondering Her Percy]

Ya know, overall, there has been a lot more good with this team this year than bad. If the cardinals can whoop the Seahawks, the chargers can whoop the packers, the falcons can beat the saints and the 49ers, the browns can beat the ravens and so on, we can beat anyone we play.

Yeah Monday was a big downer but it’s all about getting hot in the playoffs. We were without our best offensive player and his backup on Monday. Thielen isn’t 100% yet. Kendricks and Barr are banged up. Rest our starters this week and come into the playoffs healthy. This defense has been a downer this year but they still show what they are capable of at certain points through the year. The offense has been hot but crapped on Monday. But we know what they are capable of. I don’t see a team out there we can’t beat if we play well.

If it’s New Orleans, so be it. I think we match up well. There defense is up and down. Offense has been up and down at times. Zim has always seemed to scheme against Brees well. We’d be inside and out of the elements. There isn’t a clear cut team in the NFC. I couldn’t tell you who wins this conference. Honestly don’t have a clue. That’s a good thing for us.

The key is, finding this run game again when cook is back. If we do, we are very very dangerous.

We need to put together complete games. I feel there have been times this year where the offense is lights out but defense sucks or defense is lights out and offense sucks. We need both sides to step up. I’m far from counting our team out. First round, second round, championship games, super bowl, I don’t count them out and won’t until the clock strikes zero and we have the lower of two scores.

I’m hoping this loss is a blessing in disguise as well as the LA rams loss. Because it allows us to rest week 17 which is much needed for us right now. And we also play much better when we’re the underdogs. I’m excited and still have plenty of faith in this team

[Cliff]

That is what the offense looks like without Cook. Those screens and dump offs haven't been play calling wizardry, its cook making guys miss and making something out of nothing.

Cook wouldn't have made any difference yesterday with the way the offensive line was manhandled. The Vikings could have had Bo Jackson in his prime at RB yesterday and he wouldn't have gotten squat because the Packers defensive linemen did what they wanted to who they wanted when they wanted. Cook, Mattison, Superman... It wouldn't have mattered.

The only chance the Vikings might have had to alter that calculus was if Cousins was throwing lasers and being decisive and he wasn't.

The Vikings offensive line just wasn't prepared to play. I don't know if they thought they had a playoff spot locked up or what, but they came out soft and got embarrassed, and Cousins wasn't (and probably isn't) good enough to compensate.

After they lose to the Bears they'll get their chance to visit the comfy confines of Lambeau for another beating and then they can make their vacation plans while the Wilfs decide if they want to keep paying top dollar for subprime performing players and coaches.

You really don't think one of the best RBs in the league starting on a run first team wouldn't have mattered? Not even on the short field situations the Vikings couldn't convert without him? We'll just have to disagree.

[CharVike]

It absolutely is not included. That would be time to sack. QB scrambles are also not included, neither are handoffs. Because it is time to THROW.

from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt

^yeah exactly. So like he was saying, it’s not taking into account cousins running for his life either. It’s just like what I said, from the time he takes the snap to the time he actually throws it. If he gets immediate pressure and is running for his life and then decides to throw it away, it’s going to effect his time to throw. Another reason it is a bull crap stat.

But thanks for bringing this stat up for the 16th week in a row and proving nothing with it.

This time to throw stat is the biggest BS stat of them all. Fran in the early days would run all over the place and then throw. He had like two minutes to throw. That is unbelievable amount of time to throw. A great OL. No the OL blew and were a bunch of stiffs regardless of the two minute time to throw BS. I look at one thing SACKS. They happen or they don't. Just like a tackle. It's not this made up stuff.

[StumpHunter]

Stop it! I know you don’t like Cousins but make some sense. Cousins has had overall a good year. Somewhere in the top six in many categories. You think Brady or Brees would have made quick throws. I got news for you. They have a balanced attack like we did before Cook and Mattison went down. You put them in Cousins shoes last night and they would have been buried. GB rushed three guys on four occasions and got to Cousins twice. The only difference is coaching. Reid, Belichek, McVey, Shanahan and Peyton would have made adjustments. We don’t have skill set coaching. We can make things work when we have a balanced attack, but with Cook and Mattison out, Stefanski goes conservative and predictable or maybe it’s Stefanski and Zimmer. McVey and Cousins got along great in Washington because Kirk was a big part of the play calling. He’s not here. It’s been stated that Andy Reid has over 400 offensive plays. All I’m stating is when the going gets tough, our plan is straight drop backs or worse yet put Cousins under center and then let him drop back and really get leveled. Your statement about Brady and Brees under last nights circumstances is just you throwing out some jaded comment. I even stated I didn’t think Kirk had a good night but there was a lot of blame to go around.

Thank you because I was about to say the same thing regarding Brees and Brady! To say “they would get it out quicker” is a crock. If the quick hitters aren’t there or not being called how is that on cousins? The OC calls the plays. Not cousins, Brady or Brees. It’s not like wide open slants were there and cousins refused to throw it. And a huge problem was the pressure often came from the interior or cousins blind side. Brady has not done well the past few years in the face of pressure.

Long a standout against pressure, Tom Brady struggled in 2018 despite the fact that New England's offensive line ranked first in the pass blocking and Brady had a clean pocket 90.1% of the time, which tied Lamar Jackson for tops. Brady's 65.1 QB rating against pressure was 24th and he threw five interceptions, which is unusually high for the future Hall-of-Famer. Brady's 44% completion percentage also ranked 32nd, as did his 5.28 yards per attempt figure. Owing to last year's performance, it wouldn't be a surprise to see opposing clubs call even more blitzes this season to see if Brady, who will be 42 on opening day, can overcome the undefeated Father Time for one more year.

No less for the last 2 years, Cousins has been one of the BEST QBs in the nfl when under pressure. Bottom line is, the OL was horrendous Monday night. Period. Stop trying to fight it because you’re not going to win. They were bad because they ARE bad. Not because of a faulty stat that was found that shows cousins “holds it too long”.

I’ve said before, HOW is it possible that Cousins took 40 sacks last year when he was getting rid of the ball at an “average rate“ (2.75 seconds) in 2018 but only takes 28 this year when he’s getting rid of the ball at a “slow rate” (3.01 seconds)??? It doesn’t add up, because there are SO many things that this stat doesn’t consider it’s not even funny. Hence why it’s faulty.

I rest my case

Cousins didnt scramble to buy time, didnt roll out or do a lot of play action. Outside of the 5 times he was sacked(the fastest of which occurred 3.5 seconds after the snap), that is how long Cousins had in the pocket at a minimum, to throw on average.

It isn't definitive proof Cousins was at fault for the line struggling. Far from it. It does indicate that at least some of the time the QB didn't make quick enough reads and some of the pressure Monday came because of him.

The coach saying the exact same thing about his QB backs me up on this.

Not the biggest issue Monday, but it was an issue.

[Purple Domination]

It's true and we'll all be back for more. The darn team played just well enough this season after that loss to the Bears to get my thinking, like Charlie Brown, that maybe this is the time the ball won't get yanked away at the last minute. Going into Monday night's game, I didn't just feel hopeful that the Vikes would win, I felt confident. Confident! What was I thinking?!

I'm definitely a sucker.

The ball hasn’t been yanked away until we exit the playoffs! Merry Christmas, VMB!

[Purple Domination]

Not really sure who is to blame (I'm sure there's enough to go around) but it seems pretty clear that we had no alternate playbook for not having Cook. Stefanski thought he could plug and play Boone into Cook's spot and get 80% of the production and when that didn't work, we literally had nothing. So yes, the line the terrible, Kirk was really bad, the playcalling was horrendous

TSonn raises a good question. Who do we blame for the blah fest on Monday night? Zimmer? Stefanski? Kubiak? The Oline? Cook for being injured? Kirk for being Kurt? The NFL for scheduling the Vikings in prime time? The LA Rams for losing and giving the Vikings a sense of playoff security? Brad Childress??? Lot’s of blame to go around on this one.

[StumpHunter]

Not really sure who is to blame (I'm sure there's enough to go around) but it seems pretty clear that we had no alternate playbook for not having Cook. Stefanski thought he could plug and play Boone into Cook's spot and get 80% of the production and when that didn't work, we literally had nothing. So yes, the line the terrible, Kirk was really bad, the playcalling was horrendous

TSonn raises a good question. Who do we blame for the blah fest on Monday night? Zimmer? Stefanski? Kubiak? The Oline? Cook for being injured? Kirk for being Kurt? The NFL for scheduling the Vikings in prime time? The LA Rams for losing and giving the Vikings a sense of playoff security? Brad Childress??? Lot’s of blame to go around on this one.

There is not one person or group to blame. The line played poorly in front of a QB who was playing too small for a big spot, the RB struggled to hit holes quickly the rare times they were there, the OC did not call a great game plan.

That combination lead to a loss that had a defense turn the Pack over 3 times and gave the offense the ball in scoring position twice, and that held their own until they just got worn down by injuries and being on the field the entire game.

Actually, if you want to blame someone blame the GM who put that line out there in front of the overpaid loser QB.

[J. Kapp 11]

It is. It’s from when the QB gets the snap to when he actually throws the ball. Not only did Reiff get pushed aside by 1 arm but so did Bradbury. More than once. I know what I saw as well and it wasn’t a QB holding the ball forever. It was an interior leaving no pocket and a left tackle getting abused. It was awful and it was mainly because we had no RB that was a threat and turned one dimensional

It absolutely is not included. That would be time to sack. QB scrambles are also not included, neither are handoffs. Because it is time to THROW.

Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).

So if Cousins can’t even set up at the top of his drop, scrambles for 3 seconds and throws the ball away without being sacked, this stat says he had 3+ seconds to throw. Is that really good O-line play?

I think that’s the problem with that stat. A quarterback is typically less successful the longer he holds the ball. That’s why Brady and Brees are so successful. They get rid of the ball. Their teams are always going to rank low in that stat.

Our O-line was terrible Monday. It’s by far the biggest reason we lost.

[StumpHunter]

So if Cousins can’t even set up at the top of his drop, scrambles for 3 seconds and throws the ball away without being sacked, this stat says he had 3+ seconds to throw. Is that really good O-line play?

That is not good O-line play, and is the biggest flaw in the time to throw stat for measuring how well an O-line plays...against scrambling QBs. It also wasn't what was happening Monday. The QB rarely if ever scrambled to buy time. It might have happened and a couple of times that I am forgetting, but for the most part the QB was in the pocket the entire game. Longer than any QB in the entire NFL.

I think that’s the problem with that stat. A quarterback is typically less successful the longer he holds the ball. That’s why Brady and Brees are so successful. They get rid of the ball. Their teams are always going to rank low in that stat.

Yes! This is absolutely true. It is not a mark on their offensive lines that they get rid of the ball quickly, it is a product of playing with a good veteran, pocket passing QB who makes quick reads and keeps himself upright because of it.

Our O-line was terrible Monday. It’s by far the biggest reason we lost.

Fine, I don't care to argue whether it was more poor O-line play or poor QB play that was the problem. They both had bad games. Not so bad that great run blocking couldn't have probably overcome the QB's lack of success, or great, quick passing couldn't have overcome the poor blocking, but they were both bad.

I will say that the Coach did not call out the O-line or OC at halftime. He called out the QB for not getting rid of the ball quick enough. He seemed to think Cousins was the problem, at least in the first half.

[halfgiz]

Cousins 0-9 on MNF, QBR of 58.8... Who's fault is that?
That whole game we refused to do anything to keep 55 Smith from wrecking havoc.
Is that on Zimmer as head coach...or is it on Stef?

[VikingLord]

You really don't think one of the best RBs in the league starting on a run first team wouldn't have mattered? Not even on the short field situations the Vikings couldn't convert without him? We'll just have to disagree.

No, I don't, not when the offensive line is playing that poorly, and not when said best running back in the league hasn't been playing like one of the best running backs in the league for over a month.

[VikingLord]

Cousins 0-9 on MNF, QBR of 58.8... Who's fault is that?
That whole game we refused to do anything to keep 55 Smith from wrecking havoc.
Is that on Zimmer as head coach...or is it on Stef?

It's on the offensive linemen IMHO.

There are few coaching schemes that can overcome incompetence.