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Not sure why you think a guy who played at sub 300lbs could play both guard spots when the knock on him is functional strength. You put this guy at guard, go ahead and reserve a Hospital bed for Kirk Cousins.

Grabbing Harrison Phillips would have made things a lot more palatable but we trade out for a 6th. I've been a fan of Spielman and generally like his drafts. This one I seriously hate on every single decision so far.

S197 wrote:Grabbing Harrison Phillips would have made things a lot more palatable but we trade out for a 6th. I've been a fan of Spielman and generally like his drafts. This one I seriously hate on every single decision so far.

I tend to dislike Speilmen in the early rounds and like what he does in the late round due to the volume of picks he has.

Two guys who could make real contributions in 2018, Kalen Ballage, Ian Thomas. I kind of expect Vikings to trade back again and snag another pick in the 6th round before making their next choice though.

Wow!

"Strengths: Size, effort.

Weaknesses: Quickness, balance.

Brian O’Neill is a tortoise coming off the line of scrimmage, forcing him to lunge and lose balance as he tries to compensate. He’ll raise injury liability premiums for his quarterback as a left tackle but could be a stopgap on the right side or get the job done at guard. O’Neill took some goal-line carries and threw a few trick-play passes at Pitt, so he may provide a smidge of extra value as a goal-line fullback.

This was an obvious need pick for the Vikings. But O’Neill is too much like the kind of slow-footed offensive line prospect that has gotten the team into trouble in the past.

Grade: D-plus"

Bleacher Report

YikesVikes wrote:

808vikingsfan wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

You could almost say CB was as big of a need or bigger than OL.

How? We have 2 starting Cbs and an inconsistent but young ncb. We have nothing at guard. Easton was decent at best and Danny is a question mark. We don't have a starter.

If you base it off last years playoffs. Vikings secondary got torched.

And you think Hughes will make the difference? Thats hes better then Rhodes and Waynes now? He isnt even ready to take Newmans spot. Rick picked another athlete, much like CP84, and thinks Zim can make him a star. Maybe someday, but we didnt need a guy thats this much of a project now. Unless one of of current CBs goes down, then we are in trouble. If they wanted a pure CB, Jackson would have been picked. But guess who got him? The Packers. I wont even comment on O'Neil. We shouldnt have even had to pick him if Rick hadnt listened to Zim and drafted a RAW CB. He would have selected Hernandez.

S197 wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

Or they could have got a day 1 starter in Daniels or Hernandez and followed it up with a ballhawk like Reid. Instead we have two likely backups with our first two picks and still no starting LG.

Its too early to be so definitive about these picks IMHO.

While it is always great to get a Day One starter in the draft, I see both of these picks as developmental, with Hughes being likely to contribute next year more as a punt returner than as a CB, although he should get his chance.

I would love to see O'Neill bulk up, but realistically, he's depth at best next year. Given the run on OL up to the pick, O'Neill wasn't a bad choice in the 2nd, at least not to the degree you are claiming. But time will tell on both of these choices.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:And you think Hughes will make the difference? Thats hes better then Rhodes and Waynes now? He isnt even ready to take Newmans spot. Rick picked another athlete, much like CP84, and thinks Zim can make him a star. Maybe someday, but we didnt need a guy thats this much of a project now. Unless one of of current CBs goes down, then we are in trouble. If they wanted a pure CB, Jackson would have been picked. But guess who got him? The Packers. I wont even comment on O'Neil. We shouldnt have even had to pick him if Rick hadnt listened to Zim and drafted a RAW CB. He would have selected Hernandez.

With all due respect Purple, I disagree on Hughes. He's definitely an athlete, but the guy has legit cover skills.

YikesVikes wrote:Wow!

"Strengths: Size, effort.

Weaknesses: Quickness, balance.

Brian O’Neill is a tortoise coming off the line of scrimmage, forcing him to lunge and lose balance as he tries to compensate. He’ll raise injury liability premiums for his quarterback as a left tackle but could be a stopgap on the right side or get the job done at guard. O’Neill took some goal-line carries and threw a few trick-play passes at Pitt, so he may provide a smidge of extra value as a goal-line fullback.

This was an obvious need pick for the Vikings. But O’Neill is too much like the kind of slow-footed offensive line prospect that has gotten the team into trouble in the past.

Grade: D-plus"

Bleacher Report

Odd analysis of O'Neill to be honest. Size is a plus? He is a converted TE and everything I've read about him suggests he needs to bulk up substantially to play tackle in the NFL.

And if anything, he's a good pass blocker. He's weak as a run blocker, but as a zone blocker he should excel once he adds some size and strength.

Not really sure where the Bleacher Report came up with that review.

I think people need to stop looking for immediate answers in the draft. The draft is still developmental and for depth mostly. If teams need to hit on starters in the draft, they have done a poor job of developing and retaining their own talent, drafting and free agency. The Vikings need to improve depth on the offensive line mostly, and I think O'Neill does that with room to grow into a reliable starter in the near term. Not next year, but next few years. Plus he can play both tackle spots and be used as an eligible receiver. He is not a terrible choice unless the criteria used to judge him is "can he start immediately", in which case I would agree he is a bad choice.

VikingLord wrote:

S197 wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

Or they could have got a day 1 starter in Daniels or Hernandez and followed it up with a ballhawk like Reid. Instead we have two likely backups with our first two picks and still no starting LG.

Its too early to be so definitive about these picks IMHO.

While it is always great to get a Day One starter in the draft, I see both of these picks as developmental, with Hughes being likely to contribute next year more as a punt returner than as a CB, although he should get his chance.

I would love to see O'Neill bulk up, but realistically, he's depth at best next year. Given the run on OL up to the pick, O'Neill wasn't a bad choice in the 2nd, at least not to the degree you are claiming. But time will tell on both of these choices.

Given the run on OL (which would have been easily headed off had we drafted OL in the first but I digress) you don't panic and draft the scraps, you go after another position. The Vikings played all 3 rounds wrong. They thought they could draft for luxury in the 1st, and got roasted for it at the top of the 2nd. Thus leading to a reach at their pick. Clearly behind, they trade back in desperation missing a solid DT who is easily a top 50 pick, a need, and can backup at both 3 tech and NT.

So now we have a punt returner (already good one on the team), a converted TE to protect our $80M QB and a 6th round pick.

We could have had Daniels/Reid/Phillips. To me those pairings aren't even close.

Sure the same old wait and see platitude applies but right now on paper, it looks real bad.

VikingLord wrote:

YikesVikes wrote:Wow!

"Strengths: Size, effort.

Weaknesses: Quickness, balance.

Brian O’Neill is a tortoise coming off the line of scrimmage, forcing him to lunge and lose balance as he tries to compensate. He’ll raise injury liability premiums for his quarterback as a left tackle but could be a stopgap on the right side or get the job done at guard. O’Neill took some goal-line carries and threw a few trick-play passes at Pitt, so he may provide a smidge of extra value as a goal-line fullback.

This was an obvious need pick for the Vikings. But O’Neill is too much like the kind of slow-footed offensive line prospect that has gotten the team into trouble in the past.

Grade: D-plus"

Bleacher Report

Odd analysis of O'Neill to be honest. Size is a plus? He is a converted TE and everything I've read about him suggests he needs to bulk up substantially to play tackle in the NFL.

And if anything, he's a good pass blocker. He's weak as a run blocker, but as a zone blocker he should excel once he adds some size and strength.

Not really sure where the Bleacher Report came up with that review.

I think people need to stop looking for immediate answers in the draft. The draft is still developmental and for depth mostly. If teams need to hit on starters in the draft, they have done a poor job of developing and retaining their own talent, drafting and free agency. The Vikings need to improve depth on the offensive line mostly, and I think O'Neill does that with room to grow into a reliable starter in the near term. Not next year, but next few years. Plus he can play both tackle spots and be used as an eligible receiver. He is not a terrible choice unless the criteria used to judge him is "can he start immediately", in which case I would agree he is a bad choice.

Side as in length and height I assumed. 6'7, long arms.

I like O'Neil as a developmental prospect but this team needed a guy who could start day one. Funny how quickly teams at the top of round two realized the good offensive linemen weren't going to last. Jamaal Stephenson meanwhile wants an explanation.

S197 wrote:

VikingLord wrote:

S197 wrote:
Or they could have got a day 1 starter in Daniels or Hernandez and followed it up with a ballhawk like Reid. Instead we have two likely backups with our first two picks and still no starting LG.

Its too early to be so definitive about these picks IMHO.

While it is always great to get a Day One starter in the draft, I see both of these picks as developmental, with Hughes being likely to contribute next year more as a punt returner than as a CB, although he should get his chance.

I would love to see O'Neill bulk up, but realistically, he's depth at best next year. Given the run on OL up to the pick, O'Neill wasn't a bad choice in the 2nd, at least not to the degree you are claiming. But time will tell on both of these choices.

Given the run on OL (which would have been easily headed off had we drafted OL in the first but I digress) you don't panic and draft the scraps, you go after another position. The Vikings played all 3 rounds wrong. They thought they could draft for luxury in the 1st, and got roasted for it at the top of the 2nd. Thus leading to a reach at their pick. Clearly behind, they trade back in desperation missing a solid DT who is easily a top 50 pick, a need, and can backup at both 3 tech and NT.

So now we have a punt returner (already good one on the team), a converted TE to protect our $80M QB and a 6th round pick.

We could have had Daniels/Reid/Phillips. To me those pairings aren't even close.

Sure the same old wait and see platitude applies but right now on paper, it looks real bad.

Agree with you 100%
I guess we will see what today brings. Still don't think we have replaced Berger or Sirles in this draft which is not good.

Breaking down O'Neil (and Miller but skip to O'Neil)

https://www.ndtscouting.com/thorn-film- ... ssion=true