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One thing you missed when talking about this defense, Everson Griffith is developing into a star before our eyes. I think he is top 3 on this defense next season.

PurpleHalo wrote:One thing you missed when talking about this defense, Everson Griffith is developing into a star before our eyes. I think he is top 3 on this defense next season.

I have a lot of faith in Everson Griffen. The Vikings probably didn't do him any favors last year with trying to have play LB at the beginning of the season and forcing him to lose 20 lbs. I'm hoping this year they'll let him find his place and do his thing.

My concern with Carlson is that perhaps his injuries have taken their toll and he'll never be what he once was. It will be unfortunate if it is true, but it also wouldn't be a unique thing in the NFL.

An even bigger challenge for Carlson might be his contract. Given where they are at with pass catchers, his cap number is very, very high given his production. I suspect this is his make or break year, otherwise he'll be released next offseason. (No cap reason to do that this year as has been explained ad nauseum.) Frankly, I think he is going to need monstrous numbers to justify his contract in light of the other contracts the Vikings will need to address on the DL next offseason. Of course, I also doubt JA will be a $20MM cap hit after that cycle.

mansquatch wrote:My concern with Carlson is that perhaps his injuries have taken their toll and he'll never be what he once was. It will be unfortunate if it is true, but it also wouldn't be a unique thing in the NFL.

An even bigger challenge for Carlson might be his contract. Given where they are at with pass catchers, his cap number is very, very high given his production. I suspect this is his make or break year, otherwise he'll be released next offseason. (No cap reason to do that this year as has been explained ad nauseum.) Frankly, I think he is going to need monstrous numbers to justify his contract in light of the other contracts the Vikings will need to address on the DL next offseason. Of course, I also doubt JA will be a $20MM cap hit after that cycle.

Compared to last year, yes, the numbers better be a lot bigger. But I think if he at least becomes productive and an additional threat, like Rudy is, then he might stick around. But right now, he's not even close. I guess I'll believe it when I see it... I'm not expecting much, just like with Simpson.

Jared's situation is going to be difficult. Maybe the contract looming and Shariff's presence will motivate him to have a monster year?

mansquatch wrote:An even bigger challenge for Carlson might be his contract. Given where they are at with pass catchers, his cap number is very, very high given his production.

He took a pay cut this year.

Carlson was due to have $1.2 million of his scheduled $2.9 million base salary fully guaranteed if he was on the Vikings' roster when the new league year begins at 3 p.m.

Details of the restructured deal weren't entirely clear, but a source said Carlson, 28, still gets the $1.2 million in guaranteed money and can reach $3 million this year via a $100,000 workout bonus and incentives.

The Vikings signed Carlson to a five-year, $25 million last March that included $7.9 million guaranteed in the first year, hoping to pair him with Kyle Rudolph in a two-tight attack.

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Sour ... lief031213

I know he took the cut.

My point is that his cap number could be fodder if it comes to a situation where they need $X to sign other players on the roster and/or another set of draft picks. Basically, right now he is low hanging fruit.

Uptown Murf wrote:I hear what you dudes are saying about my boy Carlson, and I tend to agree. It's just that if all things are equal - Rudolph is not athletically in Carlson's league. I sure hope for you guy's sake that Carlson proves me right...As for Ellison - keep him at H-Back.

My dude is Joe Webb! I wished that the world hadn't have first seen him in the playoff game like that. Now his name is trash with any type of QB talk. I wish ppl would've seen him beat Mike Vick and the Philly Eagles a few seasons back, but o well. I'd love for him to just concentrate on receiver and read-option plays with Patterson. He should be used in a multitude of ways..

Also thanks everyone for hitting me with comments and checking out my Vikings article. It was my most successful one thanks to you guys. 40 Tweets and 450 likes on FB and counting!!! I totally appreciate it - by far the most knowledgeable group of fans on a message board...If you haven't checked it out - make sure you do and tweet it out and like it on FB!

If I may speak for the majority of the users here: we appreciate it man. We are not such a bad group of people on the message board!

Sorry Murf, but Carlson, in my opinion, is not a better athlete than Rudolph. You're not the only one who shares this viewpoint, but I don't agree. Rudolph is so much more fluid and natural with his movements than Carlson. It doesn't take but 1 minute of watching each of their highlights from Notre Dame to see this.

I hope you're right about Carlson having a bounce back year, but he's shown me very little to suggest he will be anything more than a stopgap. Before Carlson ever got hurt in Seattle, he was moved to a backup role. Once he got injured then he was dunzo and Seattle chose not to re-sign him. He was going to be a backup for a reason though. I would've preferred Minnesota to cut him, but I suppose he still has some value as he's pegged as a guy who knows his assignments, does the right thing, and hustles. Not to mention he's a hometown guy. I'm just not a believer right now.

PacificNorseWest wrote:Sorry Murf, but Carlson, in my opinion, is not a better athlete than Rudolph. You're not the only one who shares this viewpoint, but I don't agree. Rudolph is so much more fluid and natural with his movements than Carlson. It doesn't take but 1 minute of watching each of their highlights from Notre Dame to see this.

I hope you're right about Carlson having a bounce back year, but he's shown me very little to suggest he will be anything more than a stopgap. Before Carlson ever got hurt in Seattle, he was moved to a backup role. Once he got injured then he was dunzo and Seattle chose not to re-sign him. He was going to be a backup for a reason though. I would've preferred Minnesota to cut him, but I suppose he still has some value as he's pegged as a guy who knows his assignments, does the right thing, and hustles. Not to mention he's a hometown guy. I'm just not a believer right now.

I am a big Rudolph fan but it might be a stretch to describe him as fluid. Lumbering maybe (size 14 shoes), fluid not so much He has great size, excellent pass catching skills and brings a power forward basketball mentallity to the tight end position.
I have looked at Carlson's (pre injury) highlights and definately see what the Vikes saw in him when he was signed. Just like Simpson, he played with some injuries that definately appear to have greatly affected his performance. I am looking forward, with high expectations,
to see what types of skills he will add to the second tight end position.

Fluid for his frame would have been a better description. When you compare him to Carlson though, I still think his movements are more natural and instinctual. I mean, guys...I'm not trying to hate, but I knew guys who praised Carlson because they played against him in H.S. Naturally, I kept an eye on him from then and was intrigued when he came to Seattle to play for the Hawks. His big year was decent, but a lot of it was how he was used and nothing like the playmaking production of Rudolph. Since that year he's been horrible with the injuries and when he's on the field, I don't see too much of the talent that brought all the hype. Right now that's all he is. The career potential guy.

PacificNorseWest wrote:Sorry Murf, but Carlson, in my opinion, is not a better athlete than Rudolph. You're not the only one who shares this viewpoint, but I don't agree. Rudolph is so much more fluid and natural with his movements than Carlson. It doesn't take but 1 minute of watching each of their highlights from Notre Dame to see this.

I hope you're right about Carlson having a bounce back year, but he's shown me very little to suggest he will be anything more than a stopgap. Before Carlson ever got hurt in Seattle, he was moved to a backup role. Once he got injured then he was dunzo and Seattle chose not to re-sign him. He was going to be a backup for a reason though. I would've preferred Minnesota to cut him, but I suppose he still has some value as he's pegged as a guy who knows his assignments, does the right thing, and hustles. Not to mention he's a hometown guy. I'm just not a believer right now.

I hear what you're saying my dude - but I watched both guys at Notre Dame atleast 20 times and have about 10 of their games on tape. I was a big Jimmy Clausen and Golden Tate fan..I don't see how your boy Rudolph is remotely a fluid of an athlete as Carlson. Rudolph reminds me of the Gronk. They are good athletes but only for their size. They look kinda robotic in the grand scheme of things.

Tight end John Carlson
Bench press 21 reps
Vertical jump 35.5 inches, jumped 30.5 in Indy
40-yard times 4.67 and 4.72
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Kyle Rudolph runs 4.78 at Pro Day

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 7, 2011, 4:12 PM EDT

AP
The top-ranked tight end in this year’s draft class ran a 4.78 and 4.8 forty-yard dash at his Pro Day on Thursday, according to Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times.
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Just off 40 time alone, there is a discernible difference. Man I feel bad for my boy John - you have him all wrong. Dude is smooth as all get out. Like a wide receiver - I'm sure he'd be dumb-founded you think Kyle Rudolph's big Herman Monster a s s is a better athlete than him lolol..

PacificNorseWest wrote:Fluid for his frame would have been a better description. When you compare him to Carlson though, I still think his movements are more natural and instinctual. I mean, guys...I'm not trying to hate, but I knew guys who praised Carlson because they played against him in H.S. Naturally, I kept an eye on him from then and was intrigued when he came to Seattle to play for the Hawks. His big year was decent, but a lot of it was how he was used and nothing like the playmaking production of Rudolph. Since that year he's been horrible with the injuries and when he's on the field, I don't see too much of the talent that brought all the hype. Right now that's all he is. The career potential guy.

This was Carlson's best season. Which was his rookie year his second season looked identical to this as well..

2008 SEA
55 receptions
80 targets
627 yards
11.4 avg
33 first downs
5 TD's
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Rudolph's best season which was his 2nd year. His first year looked like Carlson's worst year.
2012 MIN
53 receptions
93 targets
493 yards
9.3 average
29 first downs
9 TD's

Rudolph's best season which was his 2nd year. His first year looked like Carlson's worst year.

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So bro, please tell me where this play-making ability that is better than JC's? Carlson had another season that was exactly like this one I posted. His worst season was when Jim Mora came in and changed up the offense for a season. Then he was hurt the past two seasons. Coming out of college - Carlson was the better prospect. And was more productive. He's about to be 29 tomorrow - so I think he has some good years left in him. Rudolph is 23 and will be 24 in November - so it makes for a great combo if Carlson can bounce back. It's a good argument to have, as both these guys are on your squad and can only help....But as the cat earlier pointed out - injuries could've sapped Carlson of most of his abilities. This is a make or break year for the dude.

PurpleHalo wrote:One thing you missed when talking about this defense, Everson Griffith is developing into a star before our eyes. I think he is top 3 on this defense next season.

Oversight on my part - I liked Griffen even when he was at USC. I kinda skimmed the defense for reading purposes as this was really an offensive based article - with the comparison to the Falcons...Griffen, Robison and Jared Allen...dayum!!!!

HardcoreVikesFan wrote: If I may speak for the majority of the users here: we appreciate it man. We are not such a bad group of people on the message board!

Not a prob bro..I thank you cats. My editor told me that article got 20,000 views...I might move to Minnesota to write only about the purple people!! HAHA j/k - But yeah by far the most intelligent board....Philadelphia forum? uhhhh not so much haha

So bro, please tell me where this play-making ability that is better than JC's?

Playmaking ability can't be quantified by stats. I live in Seattle, so I'm well aware of the numbers Carlson put up his rookie and sophomore seasons, but you have to understand how putrid that team was. Even worse, were its receivers. The passing game for that offense was heavily predicated on getting the ball to the TE's. Not saying John's stats were completely inflated, but that he's probably a few notches below that type of production....On paper.

We can rattle stats off all day, but that doesn't show the true measure of what I'm talking about here. Rudolph is a premiere red zone target and I just feel he can make catches that Carlson can't do so easily.