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Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:45 pm
by losperros
mondry wrote:I really just think a LOT of teams legitimately had massive needs on the OL and when it really comes down to it, nothing really stops your offense in it's tracks more than not being able to protect the QB. You can't even evaluate your offensive scheme if you can't keep the QB upright. Let's take a look at the picks and how many sacks their team gave up last year.
Chiefs #1 - Eric Fisher OT - 40 Sacks sacks given up
Jaguars #2 - Luck Joekel OT - 50 Sacks sacks given up
Eagles #4 - Lane Johnson OT - 48 sacks sacks given up
Cardinals #7 - Jonathan Cooper OG - 58 sacks given up
Titans #10 - Chance Warmack OG - 39 sacks given up
Chargers #11 - DJ Fluker OT - 49 sacks given up
Then we went a "whopping" 8 picks (too much talent to pass up) without an O-lineman
Giants # 19 - Justin Pugh OT - 20 sacks given up (best in the league, why the reach? Did they lose someone in FA?)
Bears # 20 - Kyle Long OG - 44 sacks given up
As you can see almost all of those teams gave up 40+ sacks last year and almost all of them had mediocre to awful offenses in which giving up pressure played a major role. If you wonder how they compare, the Cardinals were the absolute worst at 58 sacks and all of them are in the top 15 (not the giants who gave up the least) for most sacks given up, the titans were the best of this bad bunch at 12th worst.
I think a lot of the GM's for those teams simply went in early saying "we HAVE to improve the o-line at all costs." Then when O-lineman after O-lineman kept coming off the board most of them realized they weren't going to able to wait until round 2 to do it which just further extended the run on them. Let's say for example you're the Chargers GM and your team just gave up 49 sacks (4th worst) it's pick #11 and 5 lineman already went ahead of you! Yikes!
Well said and good points. I honestly hadn't looked at it that way before.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:10 pm
by petev_sj
If there is one thing that this franchise is known for it's DTs. Alan Page, John Randle, Kevin Williams. Floyd has A LOT to live up to. I hope the kid can handle the pressure.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:08 pm
by dead_poet
Audio: Vikings rookie Sharrif Floyd says film shows short arms aren't an issue
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/vikings
Have to click the link in the feed to play the audio
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:28 pm
by Eli
I do worry a little about Floyd's size. It's not so bad to be 6'2" if you weigh 350 lbs and you're a bowling ball shaped nose tackle, but I question whether at that size he'll ever become the force that a 6'5" tackle like Kevin Williams was. And yes, I expect his short arms may affect his pass rushing ability in the NFL.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:41 pm
by Demi
Eli wrote:I do worry a little about Floyd's size. It's not so bad to be 6'2" if you weigh 350 lbs and you're a bowling ball shaped nose tackle, but I question whether at that size he'll ever become the force that a 6'5" tackle like Kevin Williams was. And yes, I expect his short arms may affect his pass rushing ability in the NFL.
John Randle did ok and he was even smaller
Besides the arms one reason he could have dropped is same reason Randle didn't get many looks, and that's the same question about his size.
They'll both have a bust in Cooperstown some day!
(for all those Common fans out there.
)
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:29 pm
by S197
mondry wrote:
I really just think a LOT of teams legitimately had massive needs on the OL and when it really comes down to it, nothing really stops your offense in it's tracks more than not being able to protect the QB. You can't even evaluate your offensive scheme if you can't keep the QB upright. Let's take a look at the picks and how many sacks their team gave up last year.
Chiefs #1 - Eric Fisher OT - 40 Sacks sacks given up
Jaguars #2 - Luck Joekel OT - 50 Sacks sacks given up
Eagles #4 - Lane Johnson OT - 48 sacks sacks given up
Cardinals #7 - Jonathan Cooper OG - 58 sacks given up
Titans #10 - Chance Warmack OG - 39 sacks given up
Chargers #11 - DJ Fluker OT - 49 sacks given up
Then we went a "whopping" 8 picks (too much talent to pass up) without an O-lineman
Giants # 19 - Justin Pugh OT - 20 sacks given up (best in the league, why the reach? Did they lose someone in FA?)
Bears # 20 - Kyle Long OG - 44 sacks given up
As you can see almost all of those teams gave up 40+ sacks last year and almost all of them had mediocre to awful offenses in which giving up pressure played a major role. If you wonder how they compare, the Cardinals were the absolute worst at 58 sacks and all of them are in the top 15 (not the giants who gave up the least) for most sacks given up, the titans were the best of this bad bunch at 12th worst.
I think a lot of the GM's for those teams simply went in early saying "we HAVE to improve the o-line at all costs." Then when O-lineman after O-lineman kept coming off the board most of them realized they weren't going to able to wait until round 2 to do it which just further extended the run on them. Let's say for example you're the Chargers GM and your team just gave up 49 sacks (4th worst) it's pick #11 and 5 lineman already went ahead of you! Yikes!
Looking at the list, it makes me wonder how much of that stat is helped by the QB. I don't think it's coincidence that four of the top five teams in sacks allowed have the two Manning brothers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady at the helm. Mondry, I think you make a really good point and are probably on to something, I just question with that many OT's going in round 1, maybe there's now an over-emphasis on the position. Either way, it makes snagging Kalil last year all the better!
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:31 pm
by Demi
Either way, it makes snagging Kalil last year all the better!
And it will matter about as much as Jake Long and Joe Thomas if we don't get someone worth blocking for to line up behind center!
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:42 pm
by Mothman
S197 wrote:Looking at the list, it makes me wonder how much of that stat is helped by the QB. I don't think it's coincidence that four of the top five teams in sacks allowed have the two Manning brothers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady at the helm. Mondry, I think you make a really good point and are probably on to something, I just question with that many OT's going in round 1, maybe there's now an over-emphasis on the position. Either way, it makes snagging Kalil last year all the better!
A smart QB with a quick release definitely helps but one of the reasons those QBs are good is because they tend to get good protection. It's a mutually beneficial situation.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:04 pm
by mondry
S197 wrote:
Looking at the list, it makes me wonder how much of that stat is helped by the QB. I don't think it's coincidence that four of the top five teams in sacks allowed have the two Manning brothers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady at the helm. Mondry, I think you make a really good point and are probably on to something, I just question with that many OT's going in round 1, maybe there's now an over-emphasis on the position. Either way, it makes snagging Kalil last year all the better!
Well imo there is no doubt that having a QB who can make his reads and get the ball out quickly helps. That takes a lot of confidence and chemistry with your receivers as well so it's a lot to consider to make that happen. I would also argue that those teams with an elite QB have also built up their O-line though. The other thing I would say is, it's really hard to find a Manning, Brees, or Brady so unfortunately and / or sadly, most teams best option to improve pass protection is to draft pass protectors. FWIW I don't think there were any QB's like that in this draft, while it looks like there were some fairly decent lineman.
As for the over-emphasis on the position I think that can be explained by the past. For a few years now teams have "over-emphasized" getting pass rushers because of those elite guys you mentioned. "We HAVE to get pressure on Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or Manning" etc. I think that campaign wasn't necessarily so effective against those guys you mentioned, the Elite QB's who do get the ball out quickly, but for the ones who don't, they're now getting DESTROYED and so it simply flip flops. "We have to protect our QB better" and thus the O-lineman draft.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:20 pm
by vikes157
Wasn't the knock on Matt Kalil that he had short arms as well? I think that turned out alright for us...
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:24 pm
by VikingLord
vikes157 wrote:Wasn't the knock on Matt Kalil that he had short arms as well? I think that turned out alright for us...
Speaking of Kalil... I was watching some AD highlights from the 2012 season and it is *amazing* how often Kalil is seen well downfield looking for additional guys to block. I don't think I've ever seen an offensive lineman who stays with plays that long and that effectively. Most are content to defeat their 1st-level assignment and spring the runner, but Kalil is doing that and still getting into the 2nd and 3rd levels of the defense. I didn't count the number of times he hit another block, but he's everything he was cracked up to be and then some coming out. AD is a great runner, but even the greatest runners need that sort of blocking to consistently break the big runs. Kalil can't take all the credit, of course, but that sort of effort and ability from Kalil is one reason I think AD can have another monster year.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:23 pm
by losperros
VikingLord wrote:Speaking of Kalil... I was watching some AD highlights from the 2012 season and it is *amazing* how often Kalil is seen well downfield looking for additional guys to block. I don't think I've ever seen an offensive lineman who stays with plays that long and that effectively. Most are content to defeat their 1st-level assignment and spring the runner, but Kalil is doing that and still getting into the 2nd and 3rd levels of the defense. I didn't count the number of times he hit another block, but he's everything he was cracked up to be and then some coming out. AD is a great runner, but even the greatest runners need that sort of blocking to consistently break the big runs. Kalil can't take all the credit, of course, but that sort of effort and ability from Kalil is one reason I think AD can have another monster year.
Thanks for posting that, Edward. That's good to hear. I was excited when the Vikings drafted Kalil and I think he's showing that his college rep was well earned.
In some ways, it's easy to forget how young and still inexperienced Kalil is. Wait until he gets a couple more years of seasoning. He could be one of the best OL players in the NFL. Heck, he's close to that already.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:34 pm
by jackal
I am not worried about Floyd at all ..
The guy was a projected top five pick .. and he has a big chip on his
shoulder.. I listened to his interview and he has a great attitude ..
Draft info
Athletic three/five-technique prospect with solid overall strength. Possesses a quick and long first step
when in pass rush mode, can swim over his opponent or get his hands up into his man's jersey to push
him into the backfield. Often lined up outside the tackle (even standing up) despite his size, showed
quickness to rush the passer and quick feet to contain on the edge. Combines good effort and short-area
agility for his size to chase plays across the field and get his long arms around ball carriers when closing in.
Experienced as a two-gapper, keeps his eyes in the backfield and sheds to either direction to grab running
backs coming his direction. Flashes violent hands to swipe away blockers on his way to the ball carrier.
Excellent at shooting gaps and reducing his surface area while working through trash inside. Splits
double-teams in pass protection well with quickness.
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:40 pm
by Cliff
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/4/30/ ... riff-floyd
Vikings Horrified To Discover Sharrif Floyd Really Does Have Short Arms
Pick #14, no Floyd. Pick #18, no Floyd. 20, 21, 22. Sharrif Floyd is still on the board.
"Well", I said to myself, "we have Rick Spielman, and he most assuredly knows about Floyd's short arms. "We'll get the gangly armed and proportionate Manti Te'o, and then we will get to mock whoever takes Floyd. Much like we're mocking the Jets and the Bills right now."
Re: DT Sharrif Floyd
Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:53 pm
by Eli
Jeeze, I just hope the guy pans out. Seems that everyone writing about, rooting for, commenting on, and working for the Vikings has stated their reasoning behind why he fell to #23 and the Vikings. With a fair number of them predicting that he'll be in the Hall of Fame some day, before he's ever played a down. I hope it works out half as well.