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MrPurplenGold wrote: How is Ogletree a home run hitter? In 3 years at Georgia he's had 6 sacks and 1 turnover

Go on youtube and watch his highlights. Compare them to Teo's highlights.

Teo is a good player, but I just don't see the same explosion, instincts against the pass, or ability to chase as I do watching Ogletree's highlights. Watch Ogletree time his leaps to go up and get balls in the air. Watch him close on receivers and break up passes. I don't see things like that watching Teo. Teo makes plays for sure, but not with the same raw athleticism Ogletree brings to the field. Ogletree further seems to play with a chip on his shoulder. He doesn't just tackle guys - he rips them to the ground if he can. He chases guys down from behind with a raw determination that reminds me of guys like Joey Browner.

Teo strikes me as more of a classic run-stopping MLB. Put him in a scheme that allows him to play to his strengths and he'll enjoy success, but he isn't going to alter how an offense attacks and in fact might create opportunities to attack his weaknesses. That's just what I see, and it appears I'm perhaps the only one who sees that. Ogletree might not come into the NFL as a star, but 3-4 years into his career I see a potential star provided he gets good coaching and fully participates in an NFL weight training program.

And yeah, I do see him as a 3-down MLB (not WLB) in the NFL. He's not so small that he can't man the inside, and what he lacks in size he makes up for in quickness and recognition. With Olgetree, though, the team that takes him will have to be patient to see his full potential at the pro level.

VikingLord wrote:Go on youtube and watch his highlights. Compare them to Teo's highlights.

Teo is a good player, but I just don't see the same explosion, instincts against the pass, or ability to chase as I do watching Ogletree's highlights. Watch Ogletree time his leaps to go up and get balls in the air. Watch him close on receivers and break up passes. I don't see things like that watching Teo.

That's because in Ogletree, you're basically looking at a big strong safety playing LB. I think he could be successful as an ILB in a 3-4 defense at that size but to anchor a 4-3 defense from the MLB position, he'd probably need to add about 15-20 lbs. to his frame without losing what makes him special.

Teo strikes me as more of a classic run-stopping MLB. Put him in a scheme that allows him to play to his strengths and he'll enjoy success, but he isn't going to alter how an offense attacks and in fact might create opportunities to attack his weaknesses. That's just what I see, and it appears I'm perhaps the only one who sees that. Ogletree might not come into the NFL as a star, but 3-4 years into his career I see a potential star provided he gets good coaching and fully participates in an NFL weight training program.

And yeah, I do see him as a 3-down MLB (not WLB) in the NFL. He's not so small that he can't man the inside, and what he lacks in size he makes up for in quickness and recognition. With Olgetree, though, the team that takes him will have to be patient to see his full potential at the pro level.

I have a hard time believing quickness and recognition are going to help Ogletree hold up over a 16 game schedule as bigger TEs and o-linemen get their hands on him. There's no doubt that he's a potential NFL star or that his speed and athletic ability would allow him to make some plays from the middle but he really looks and plays more like a safety or OLB. I think opposing offensive coordinators would be drooling at the opportunity to run between the tackles and attack a 6' 3", 232 lb. middle linebacker. If that's the position he's going to play, I really believe he has to get bigger. Maybe he can... if not, the Vikes would need to find another Pat Williams and do a good job of replacing Kevin when he calls it a day because they'd need to cover Ogletree up with a good pair of tackles and keep him free to make plays.

Just to reinforce the point yet again:

http://www.pigskinheaven.com/content.ph ... c-Ogletree

If there is a lane, he will come in hard and make a good tackle. However, Ogletree hates to take on blocks, especially from offensive linemen and either avoids the linemen entirely opting to try to go around them or bounce off of them as quickly as possible. If a team expects him to play inside linebacker, they are going to need to protect him from allowing linemen get to him for him to be effective unless he improves in this area.

He might be a much better replacement for Erin Henderson than for Jasper Brinkley.

Mothman wrote: Just to reinforce the point yet again:

http://www.pigskinheaven.com/content.ph ... c-Ogletree
He might be a much better replacement for Erin Henderson than for Jasper Brinkley.

OK, but just to reinforce my point (from the same article):

Ogletree offers a unique skill set if a team wants him to play inside linebacker in terms of their ability to draw up coverage around his abilities and giving them a ton of speed against the pass. As a zone defender, Ogletree has a good first step and can get into his drops with ease as if he is a safety playing at the second level which makes him dangerous to the opposition.

I know he's a bit on the light side to play a classic MLB in a 4-3 scheme *right now*, which is why I think he'll take a little seasoning in NFL strength programs before he blooms at the next level. Just looking at his body type, it seems he could safely put on another 10-15 pounds of muscle, which at a conservative weight estimate of 230 coming in could get him up to 245. As you point out, he can't add so much he loses the burst that makes him special, but I think that risk is worth it.

It will be interesting to see where Teo and Ogletree come off the board.

VikingLord wrote: OK, but just to reinforce my point (from the same article):
I know he's a bit on the light side to play a classic MLB in a 4-3 scheme *right now*, which is why I think he'll take a little seasoning in NFL strength programs before he blooms at the next level. Just looking at his body type, it seems he could safely put on another 10-15 pounds of muscle, which at a conservative weight estimate of 230 coming in could get him up to 245. As you point out, he can't add so much he loses the burst that makes him special, but I think that risk is worth it.

It will be interesting to see where Teo and Ogletree come off the board.

It will definitely be interesting and if Ogletree can bulk up without losing speed, he could offer coverage options beyond what Te'o would probably be able to provide. It will be interesting to see what Ogletree weighs at the combine and at his pro day. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been advised to bulk up already (if he's hoping to play inside in the pros.

Since we've put so much effort into discussing these two players, they'll probably both be gone before the Vikes pick or they'll both be available and the Vikes will draft a WR instead!

Ogletree offers a unique skill set if a team wants him to play inside linebacker in terms of their ability to draw up coverage around his abilities and giving them a ton of speed against the pass. As a zone defender, Ogletree has a good first step and can get into his drops with ease as if he is a safety playing at the second level which makes him dangerous to the opposition.

Well, guess we won't target him then! Seems clear by now what the defensive coaches look for in a middle linebacker. And it is more of that Teo traditional middle linebacker. Gary Brackett was 5'11 235 and did just fine in the Colts defense because of a similar skillset. And it'd be nice to finally see a middle linebacker who didn't have to turn his back to the quarterback and sprint downfield to be able to cover his responsibilities!

Demi wrote: Well, guess we won't target him then! Seems clear by now what the defensive coaches look for in a middle linebacker. And it is more of that Teo traditional middle linebacker. Gary Brackett was 5'11 235 and did just fine in the Colts defense because of a similar skillset. And it'd be nice to finally see a middle linebacker who didn't have to turn his back to the quarterback and sprint downfield to be able to cover his responsibilities!

5'11" 235 is still a compact frame. Ogletree is 6'3" 237' he's giving an additional 4 inches with only 2 additional lbs. That makes him pretty thin for a MLB; not just because of his weight but his height/weight combination. If he can put on an additional 10-15 lbs to his frame, sure, but if not I just have to question can he handle the wear and tear at that size. Remember, he hasn't played a full season at Georgia the entire time he was there due to suspensions and injuries.

Demi wrote:Well, guess we won't target him then! Seems clear by now what the defensive coaches look for in a middle linebacker.

What the coaches probably want in a middle linebacker is a player who can be an effective run defender and an effective pass defender. It's radical thinking...

And it is more of that Teo traditional middle linebacker. Gary Brackett was 5'11 235 and did just fine in the Colts defense because of a similar skillset.

Ah, yes, who can forget those Colts teams and their stout run defenses...

The Colts had one season during Brackett's 9 year career where they held opposing running games to less than 4.2 ypc and most of the other seasons they were allowing more than that, often over 4.5. Those teams were notorious for their struggles against the run. They were built to get a big lead and then attack with their pass rush. Brackett was undersized and could be taken advantage of by opposing offenses with good running games. That was one of the reasons the Colts repeatedly struggled to beat San Diego. Brackett was a good MLB when they could keep blockers off of him but run at him, get him engaged, and he struggled.

Regarding the comparison between Brackett and Ogletree: they have different body types. At 5' 11", the former is built much more stout like an LB. The latter is built like a safety and Ogletree understandably began his college career at that position. If he's going to anchor a 4-3 defense in the NFL, he almost certainly needs to add weight.

Mothman wrote:Regarding the comparison between Brackett and Ogletree: they have different body types. At 5' 11", the former is built much more stout like an LB. The latter is built like a safety and Ogletree understandably began his college career at that position. If he's going to anchor a 4-3 defense in the NFL, he almost certainly needs to add weight.

Agreed, and I think he can add that weight. If he's starting at 237, 10 pounds of muscle gets him up to 247. I think 250 is very possible for him and that would be a respectable weight for a mike in a 4-3.

I also wanted to highlight another section of that article you posted the link to, Jim:

Because of his incredible speed and transition from the safety position, Alec Ogletree could end up being compared to former Tampa Bay Buccaneer Derrick Brooks if he can reach his potential. Brooks was a safety that was converted to middle linebacker and was the middle linebacker that allowed Monte Kiffin’s Tampa-2 scheme to be so successful for the better part of a decade.

I thought that was interesting, both because I didn't know that Derrick Brooks had converted from safety in college, but also because that skill set is, IMHO, what allowed the Tampa 2 to be so effective for so long. Having a guy with the instincts and cover skills of Derrick Brooks manning the MLB spot allows the full potential of the scheme to be realized. If there is a realistic potential to get a guy like that at #23, I can't see how Spielman passes that up unless there is a better prospect there.

I have confidence that Spielman would move up in the draft, as he did with Smith, if that guy he covets is hanging around a few picks before theirs.

VikingLord wrote: Agreed, and I think he can add that weight. If he's starting at 237, 10 pounds of muscle gets him up to 247. I think 250 is very possible for him and that would be a respectable weight for a mike in a 4-3.

I also wanted to highlight another section of that article you posted the link to, Jim:
I thought that was interesting, both because I didn't know that Derrick Brooks had converted from safety in college, but also because that skill set is, IMHO, what allowed the Tampa 2 to be so effective for so long. Having a guy with the instincts and cover skills of Derrick Brooks manning the MLB spot allows the full potential of the scheme to be realized. If there is a realistic potential to get a guy like that at #23, I can't see how Spielman passes that up unless there is a better prospect there.

Interesting. I didn't know that Brooks was a converted safety either. Brian Urlacher, is also a converted safety so clearly, if a player can manage to get to a good MLB size weight and retain speed, that's a conversion that can work very well in the cover 2.

What the coaches probably want in a middle linebacker is a player who can be an effective run defender and an effective pass defender. It's radical thinking...

Could have fooled me! First EJ, who they inherited, and then Brinkley. I find it hard to believe they couldn't have found a more well rounded middle linebacker for this defense between the time Tomlin was hired and now. They haven't even tried!

• “(Notre Dame LB) Manti Te’o is a very religious, religious, religious kid. I haven’t gotten a vibe for bull---- from him. When this came out and the way it came out — it wreaks of someone trying to see him fall. I will tell you this — Baltimore is losing their leader (Ray Lewis). They always seem to land the guy with ‘issues’ and then they go on to play in Pro Bowls the next 10 years. It could fall into their hands again.”

NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2013/0 ... ear-wonder

dead_poet wrote: NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2013/0 ... ear-wonder

And as we all know the more religious a person seems to be the less likely it is that they'll lie to you

Regardless, I think this incident is going to matter a lot less to people than the media is making it out to be. This isn't rape allegations or drug issues ... at it's very worst it's a prank that went too far.

Does anyone really think there is a fear among NFL teams that he'll repeat the behavior if he actually did anything? If teams aren't going to draft him, they already weren't.

Cliff wrote:Regardless, I think this incident is going to matter a lot less to people than the media is making it out to be. This isn't rape allegations or drug issues ... at it's very worst it's a prank that went too far.

Does anyone really think there is a fear among NFL teams that he'll repeat the behavior if he actually did anything? If teams aren't going to draft him, they already weren't.

Exactly. As long as they like what they hear from him when they talk to him at the combine, I doubt this whole "girlfriend" story will have much, if any, impact on where he's drafted.

Manti Te'o - LB - Player

"Four GMs" tell the Chicago Tribune that Notre Dame ILB Manti Te'o's slow 40 time (4.82) was "not a great indicator of how he plays."

"If a middle linebacker runs a 4.82 but he is instinctive and quick in a short area, the 40-yard dash time doesn't matter," one GM said. "At that position what matters is they are productive and make plays." Te'o has certainly proven he can rack up statistics, but there are real questions about whether he's quick enough to position himself to consistently make plays in the NFL. He's not in for a legendary draft fall, but he needs to be faster at Notre Dame's Pro Day.
Source: Dan Pompei on Twitter