Vikings Release Riley Reiff

[VikingPaul73]

wow. I would hate to lose Thielen but it would be good for him to go to a team with a chance to win something while he is still near the top of his game. And it would free up a lot of $$ and make the team younger. But sheesh.....

I can confidently say right now, that Lamar Jackson will never be a SB winning QB. Remember where you heard it

Ok be honest - afc championship game bills (diggs) vs Ravens (Thielen) - who would you root for !!! ????

[VikingLord]

wow this is interesting. It sounds like the Vikings are talking to Orlando Brown. Rumors of a Barr-Brown trade??? That would be a shocker.

If this happens it would indicate that they either think Ezra isn't ready or maybe they really do prefer him at OG.

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/21802811 ... -look-like

And then there's this below from SB Nation a short time ago. Hope they don't trade Thielin!

One possible scenario proposed by staff members of Baltimore Beatdown would be the following: Minnesota swaps first-round picks with Baltimore, giving their No. 14 overall pick to the Ravens for their No. 27 overall pick, as well as packaging veteran WR Adam Thielen and another mid-round pick for Brown Jr.

Wow, that would be giving up a lot for a guy that the Ravens should be holding onto for dear life. Not a deal I would personally do because next to QB I think franchise LT is probably the hardest position to draft and develop. That the Ravens would be willing to move on from Brown is as suspicious to me as the Texans moving on from Watson. It makes little sense if you really believe in the player and his potential.

[Maelstrom88]

There's about four players I personally would never give up: Hunter, Harrison, Dalvin, and Thielen. They're the major corps of our veteran group and they're still ultra talented. I'd never give them up unless for a King's ransom.

100% agree. Another one you’re missing is Kendricks. If he’s not the best MLB in the nfl I want to know who is. Kendricks is a lifer IMO and then obviously JJ. And I’d be in the minority here but I’d even go out on a limb and say O’Neill too

May be recency bias but I would take Devin White over Kendricks. It's close though.

[S197]

wow this is interesting. It sounds like the Vikings are talking to Orlando Brown. Rumors of a Barr-Brown trade??? That would be a shocker.

If this happens it would indicate that they either think Ezra isn't ready or maybe they really do prefer him at OG.

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/21802811 ... -look-like

This whole thing is basically one blogger quoting another blogger that's speculating about something being told by another blogger.

[YikesVikes]

My problem with most of your arguments is that you purpose skew them to your side. For instance, the Wilson is better than Barr argument is not simply because of Sacks and It's... But you should add tackles and most importantly... Salary. At his reduce salary, Wilson's play was a bargain; Barr's a disaster.

Yeah and Case Keenum was a bargain too. But the problem is, bargains dont last forever in this league. Wilson is going to command decent money. Not $14 million. But it's going to be a decent salary. Rumor has it he's seeking $9-$10 million. If that's the case, is he really a "bargain"? I'd keep Barr for $4 million more any day of the week.

I don't care about tackles, sacks or ints. I care about impact and for too many games Barr is MI A. Now that could mean that he's doing his job as Zimmer proposed and being schemed for by the opposing offense, but at 14 million per year I expect a player that is schemed against and still impactful.

Also you compare all of Barrs years with a healthy team and a dominant nose tackle but use Wilson's year where his best defensive lineman was Shamar Stefan.

Doing your job IS making an impact. You say he goes MIA because you dont see him making a flashy play. What you are looking for is flash. Which is why I continue to say thats why 95% of fans favor Wilson in that department. If Wilson wants $10 million and Barr is making $14 who's the better option?. I think that's an easy one. Like I feel like guys think Wilson will play for $2 million. No less, for the millionth time, cutting Barr results in nearly EIGHT MILLION in dead money. Keeping Wilson for $10 mill and sending Barr packing for $8 million in dead money results in $18 mill total out the door. So we'd have to soak dead money, overpay Wilson for bad run defense and now have a worse player at the position. No thanks


Just a little add in.....

Wilson has a solid 2020 in coverage, grading at 65.5, good for 27th among linebackers. His issues have been in the run game where his 38.3 grade ranked just 85th out of 99 qualifiers. Wilson brings well above average athleticism to the position and that shows up in flashes, but he must get better as a run defender if he’s going to play over 1,000 snaps once again as he did last season.

I'm not looking for flash. I am looking for an impact. Anyone can be blocked. Filling a hole doesn't necessitate 14 million a year. That's the problem. He goes MIA because he is only capable of doing his job on most plays. Star players are able to do their job and make up for the mistakes of others, or beat their man when they should have lost the matchup on that play. Barr is not and is not worth 14 million. Wilson is not worth 9-10 million either. Look at Barr's running mate Kendricks as an example. Would you say he is all flashy plays? No, he is an impact player worthy of his salary. He is making 3 million LESS than Barr!!!!!! . Kendricks is the type of player that you get at 13 million+ Barr isn't. He should be traded or let go. His contract is awful and not worthy of a guy who is only able to "do his job". When you stack your team with average players paid like stars, you miss the chance to land truly impactful players. If we get ride of Barr now, next year we might have a Leighton Vander Esch or Tremaine Edmunds...Even a pipe dream of TJ Watt. You don't get these guys when you overpay mediocre.

[CharVike]

Haha I was just thinking of this wildly stupid idea earlier today, boo me off the forum if you have to:
Crux of a deal:
DCook and AThielen to Jets for #2 pick.
MIN takes Zach Wilson at #2, Etienne at #14 and signs Kenny Golladay as FA.
Throw in whatever ancillary later round picks back and forth it takes to happen.

Two offensive players in round one only happens if Zimmer literally cannot be found the day of the draft, I know.

It's not that I don't have love for those guys, but this has become a game of "get the best, lowest-priced guys you can and hope to heck your starting QB is on his initial deal" and mold a SB team. SEA had it right with Wilson's early years. I just don't see any way paying QB's 25% or more of team cap is a sustainable formula. You have to keep on trading the guys who are making or are on the cusp of making obscene dollars. I guarantee you that is one solid reason SEA may not be 100% opposed to potentially losing Wilson at this point. And also one of the reasons their D has deteriorated over the past few years.

I guess my real point is that nowadays, I am mentally prepared to lose productive "favorite players" every 3-4 years. And unless a drafted QB ends up being top 3? top 5? in the league, trade or cut them before the obscene contract. Just make sure you have a Fitzpatrick/Dalton/etc. backup on the team.

I fully realize the above sounds about as far from Rick/Zim philosophy as is humanly possible.

Agreed 100%!!!!!
If I were a GM I would never give the ridiculous QB salary. I would have a great “team” and just draft a Qb in 1st-3rd round every 2-3 years. Once their rookie contract is done- see ya

If you draft guys like T Jack over and over eventually people won't pay for a ticket and all the other stuff at the game and you won't be a GM for very long. An owner will only put up without sellouts for so many games. It's there investment and they want a return on it. Then you get those years with crap at the QB class and you will need to play a stiff that gives you zero chance and no sell outs. If you do draft a star QB like Montanna in the 3rd he will become a fan favorite and they might get pissed if you send him off because you don't want to pay. Then the fans wont pay either. It's an idea but there are many problems with it.

[Maelstrom88]

Agreed 100%!!!!!
If I were a GM I would never give the ridiculous QB salary. I would have a great “team” and just draft a Qb in 1st-3rd round every 2-3 years. Once their rookie contract is done- see ya

If you draft guys like T Jack over and over eventually people won't pay for a ticket and all the other stuff at the game and you won't be a GM for very long. An owner will only put up without sellouts for so many games. It's there investment and they want a return on it. Then you get those years with crap at the QB class and you will need to play a stiff that gives you zero chance and no sell outs. If you do draft a star QB like Montanna in the 3rd he will become a fan favorite and they might get pissed if you send him off because you don't want to pay. Then the fans wont pay either. It's an idea but there are many problems with it.

It is definitely an interesting debate though. Obviously if you have a guy like Peyton Manning you're going to have to pay that guy top dollar and no way do you let him out of town. However, if you are rolling with a guy like Kirk Cousins who can be above-average but I don't think anyone would consider him elite as far as the best of the best guys go are you better off paying a guy like that market value or saying I'll go with someone a little cheaper and using that extra 20 million or so to add two more elite players to your roster?

[CharVike]

Yeah and Case Keenum was a bargain too. But the problem is, bargains dont last forever in this league. Wilson is going to command decent money. Not $14 million. But it's going to be a decent salary. Rumor has it he's seeking $9-$10 million. If that's the case, is he really a "bargain"? I'd keep Barr for $4 million more any day of the week.



Doing your job IS making an impact. You say he goes MIA because you dont see him making a flashy play. What you are looking for is flash. Which is why I continue to say thats why 95% of fans favor Wilson in that department. If Wilson wants $10 million and Barr is making $14 who's the better option?. I think that's an easy one. Like I feel like guys think Wilson will play for $2 million. No less, for the millionth time, cutting Barr results in nearly EIGHT MILLION in dead money. Keeping Wilson for $10 mill and sending Barr packing for $8 million in dead money results in $18 mill total out the door. So we'd have to soak dead money, overpay Wilson for bad run defense and now have a worse player at the position. No thanks


Just a little add in.....

I'm not looking for flash. I am looking for an impact. Anyone can be blocked. Filling a hole doesn't necessitate 14 million a year. That's the problem. He goes MIA because he is only capable of doing his job on most plays. Star players are able to do their job and make up for the mistakes of others, or beat their man when they should have lost the matchup on that play. Barr is not and is not worth 14 million. Wilson is not worth 9-10 million either. Look at Barr's running mate Kendricks as an example. Would you say he is all flashy plays? No, he is an impact player worthy of his salary. He is making 3 million LESS than Barr!!!!!! . Kendricks is the type of player that you get at 13 million+ Barr isn't. He should be traded or let go. His contract is awful and not worthy of a guy who is only able to "do his job". When you stack your team with average players paid like stars, you miss the chance to land truly impactful players. If we get ride of Barr now, next year we might have a Leighton Vander Esch or Tremaine Edmunds...Even a pipe dream of TJ Watt. You don't get these guys when you overpay mediocre.

Anyone can be blocked? Tell that to Lawerence Taylor. Gibbs who is a guy I rate as the top coach in my time watching invented the H Back to deal with LT. Even that didn't shut him down. But it helped. Kendricks is a great player. Barr is pulling too much coin at this point and he needs to take less or see ya. If he is pulling off 20 sacks then yea keep him.

[CharVike]

wow. I would hate to lose Thielen but it would be good for him to go to a team with a chance to win something while he is still near the top of his game. And it would free up a lot of $$ and make the team younger. But sheesh.....

I can confidently say right now, that Lamar Jackson will never be a SB winning QB. Remember where you heard it

I expect Lamar to get hurt eventually. The guy has run for 1000 yards in back to back seasons. That's his game but sooner or later that will end badly. I remember as a young kid asking my father why no NFL teams run the wishbone like Switzer with the Sooners. He said you will need about 5 QBs because they will get hurt. It's much safer in the pocket in today's game. Once past the LOS get ready because it's coming hard. Lamar probably will never win a Super Bowl. His game gets squeezed in the playoffs. Teams make him pass from the pocket and that's not his game at this point. He likes to move and the Ds breakdown because he might take off. But good luck to him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I can confidently say right now, that Lamar Jackson will never be a SB winning QB. Remember where you heard it

I expect Lamar to get hurt eventually. The guy has run for 1000 yards in back to back seasons. That's his game but sooner or later that will end badly. I remember as a young kid asking my father why no NFL teams run the wishbone like Switzer with the Sooners. He said you will need about 5 QBs because they will get hurt. It's much safer in the pocket in today's game. Once past the LOS get ready because it's coming hard. Lamar probably will never win a Super Bowl. His game gets squeezed in the playoffs. Teams make him pass from the pocket and that's not his game at this point. He likes to move and the Ds breakdown because he might take off. But good luck to him.

When I think of Jackson I think of Cam Newton. An unreal athlete thats not a very good passer. Neither are like guys like Deshaun Watson or Wilson who can run the ball but also beat you through the air. Cam also had his lone MVP season but in the end, never really did anything when teams started to catch onto his game. You definitely saw Jackson take a small step back this past year. I wouldnt be surprised if that continued.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah and Case Keenum was a bargain too. But the problem is, bargains dont last forever in this league. Wilson is going to command decent money. Not $14 million. But it's going to be a decent salary. Rumor has it he's seeking $9-$10 million. If that's the case, is he really a "bargain"? I'd keep Barr for $4 million more any day of the week.



Doing your job IS making an impact. You say he goes MIA because you dont see him making a flashy play. What you are looking for is flash. Which is why I continue to say thats why 95% of fans favor Wilson in that department. If Wilson wants $10 million and Barr is making $14 who's the better option?. I think that's an easy one. Like I feel like guys think Wilson will play for $2 million. No less, for the millionth time, cutting Barr results in nearly EIGHT MILLION in dead money. Keeping Wilson for $10 mill and sending Barr packing for $8 million in dead money results in $18 mill total out the door. So we'd have to soak dead money, overpay Wilson for bad run defense and now have a worse player at the position. No thanks


Just a little add in.....

I'm not looking for flash. I am looking for an impact. Anyone can be blocked. Filling a hole doesn't necessitate 14 million a year. That's the problem. He goes MIA because he is only capable of doing his job on most plays. Star players are able to do their job and make up for the mistakes of others, or beat their man when they should have lost the matchup on that play. Barr is not and is not worth 14 million. Wilson is not worth 9-10 million either. Look at Barr's running mate Kendricks as an example. Would you say he is all flashy plays? No, he is an impact player worthy of his salary. He is making 3 million LESS than Barr!!!!!! . Kendricks is the type of player that you get at 13 million+ Barr isn't. He should be traded or let go. His contract is awful and not worthy of a guy who is only able to "do his job". When you stack your team with average players paid like stars, you miss the chance to land truly impactful players. If we get ride of Barr now, next year we might have a Leighton Vander Esch or Tremaine Edmunds...Even a pipe dream of TJ Watt. You don't get these guys when you overpay mediocre.

Again, I'm NOT saying Barr is deserving of his contract. For whatever reason, throughout this thread you guys continue to misunderstand that. I was simply saying in terms of overall skill, Anthony Barr is a much better LB than Eric Wilson. Barr does his job and is more important to this defense than many would think. He also carries a $8 million dead cap hit. So straight up cutting him, with no replacement on the roster, is just not a logical thing to do. That is all. Again, just because I'm defending Anthony Barr when he's up against Eric Wilson, doesnt mean I'm saying Anthony Barr deserves every bit of his mega contract.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I can confidently say right now, that Lamar Jackson will never be a SB winning QB. Remember where you heard it

Ok be honest - afc championship game bills (diggs) vs Ravens (Thielen) - who would you root for !!! ????

lol, Thielen 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. And especially because I know that the reason Thielen would be in Baltimore would NOT be that he cried his way out of Minnesota because he wasnt the center of attention.

[Pondering Her Percy]

100% agree. Another one you’re missing is Kendricks. If he’s not the best MLB in the nfl I want to know who is. Kendricks is a lifer IMO and then obviously JJ. And I’d be in the minority here but I’d even go out on a limb and say O’Neill too

May be recency bias but I would take Devin White over Kendricks. It's close though.

Oooo yeah that's really close. Given Kendricks is already on the roster, if Tampa offered White straight up for Kendricks, I'd probably just stick with Kendricks but I would contemplate for a bit

[CharVike]

If you draft guys like T Jack over and over eventually people won't pay for a ticket and all the other stuff at the game and you won't be a GM for very long. An owner will only put up without sellouts for so many games. It's there investment and they want a return on it. Then you get those years with crap at the QB class and you will need to play a stiff that gives you zero chance and no sell outs. If you do draft a star QB like Montanna in the 3rd he will become a fan favorite and they might get pissed if you send him off because you don't want to pay. Then the fans wont pay either. It's an idea but there are many problems with it.

It is definitely an interesting debate though. Obviously if you have a guy like Peyton Manning you're going to have to pay that guy top dollar and no way do you let him out of town. However, if you are rolling with a guy like Kirk Cousins who can be above-average but I don't think anyone would consider him elite as far as the best of the best guys go are you better off paying a guy like that market value or saying I'll go with someone a little cheaper and using that extra 20 million or so to add two more elite players to your roster?

Yes it is. The Bears are doing something similar with Trib. That team is very solid and at one point it looked like they had a shot of doing something. They just never moved on from Trib yet. But have made the playoffs 2 of 3 years with Nagy. It's hard to get through the playoffs with a cheap guy like let's say Keenum. More than likely a guy like that will get destroyed in the playoffs. Scoring will become almost impossible and he'll turn the ball over which will turn the momentum big time. It's hard to beat a good team that way. IMO most of the off season has been spent ripping our offense and what we need to do to get better with it. We were ranked number 4 and I think that's solid. That's with a bad OL. Nothing is mentioned about this sorry #### defense we have which I think gives us very little if any chance of competing against the big dogs. But some pointed out teams have won Super Bowls with bad defenses. IMO I would like to see a monster pass rushing defense. Hunter is a great player but has little help. Beyond all that we face an MVP future HOF QB in our division which makes the road much harder and plus the Bears are not a push over. Their QB blows which will keep them from the Super Bowl. But they play very hard which takes a toll on a team. Even comparing QBs is hard. I'll go with the OLD school QB rating. If it's above 100 your QB is solid. If it's like Trib you are done. But now there are like 90 different things used that can make a QB look great or pitiful. Whatever spin someone wants. It's like Dak for Dallas. I don't see elite there. But his light shines brighter than most QBs including Rodgers for some reason. He should dominate that joke division he is in. Get home field for the playoffs easily.

[StumpHunter]

It is definitely an interesting debate though. Obviously if you have a guy like Peyton Manning you're going to have to pay that guy top dollar and no way do you let him out of town. However, if you are rolling with a guy like Kirk Cousins who can be above-average but I don't think anyone would consider him elite as far as the best of the best guys go are you better off paying a guy like that market value or saying I'll go with someone a little cheaper and using that extra 20 million or so to add two more elite players to your roster?

Yes it is. The Bears are doing something similar with Trib. That team is very solid and at one point it looked like they had a shot of doing something. They just never moved on from Trib yet. But have made the playoffs 2 of 3 years with Nagy. It's hard to get through the playoffs with a cheap guy like let's say Keenum. More than likely a guy like that will get destroyed in the playoffs. Scoring will become almost impossible and he'll turn the ball over which will turn the momentum big time. It's hard to beat a good team that way. IMO most of the off season has been spent ripping our offense and what we need to do to get better with it. We were ranked number 4 and I think that's solid. That's with a bad OL. Nothing is mentioned about this sorry #### defense we have which I think gives us very little if any chance of competing against the big dogs. But some pointed out teams have won Super Bowls with bad defenses. IMO I would like to see a monster pass rushing defense. Hunter is a great player but has little help. Beyond all that we face an MVP future HOF QB in our division which makes the road much harder and plus the Bears are not a push over. Their QB blows which will keep them from the Super Bowl. But they play very hard which takes a toll on a team. Even comparing QBs is hard. I'll go with the OLD school QB rating. If it's above 100 your QB is solid. If it's like Trib you are done. But now there are like 90 different things used that can make a QB look great or pitiful. Whatever spin someone wants. It's like Dak for Dallas. I don't see elite there. But his light shines brighter than most QBs including Rodgers for some reason. He should dominate that joke division he is in. Get home field for the playoffs easily.

Interesting example. The Bears have had the worst QB by far in the division since 2018 and they have also had the cheapest QB by far in the division. How has that worked out for them compared to the Lions, Vikings and Packers who are paying 10+% of the cap?

2018 - Turdbuscuit/Ponder 2.0 has a competent season with his HC hiding most of his flaws by mostly calling the few plays that worked for him. The Bears are one of the better teams in the NFL, but lose in the playoffs when their QB couldn't do a whole lot and their kicker double doinked. The rest of the division, with their high priced QBs missed the playoffs.

2019 - Ponder 2.0 regresses and the Bears miss out on the playoffs. The Lions continue to suck, but the Packers and their high priced elite QB win the division while the Vikings make the playoffs as a WC team.

2020- Ponder 2.0 and Foles kinda suck for most of the season, but the Bears are arguably the best overall team outside of QB in the division and they make the playoffs as a WC team. The Packers with their high priced elite QB win the division again, Vikings and Lions with their high priced average QBs miss it.

Based on these results, one would argue the road to success in the NFL is elite high priced QB being the best option with mostly bad but serviceable cheap QB giving the 2nd best results and high priced average QB giving the worst results. You could also project that if you had a little more competent of a QB in Chicago, instead of one of the worst QBs in the NFL, at that same price, they are competing with GB for division the past 2 seasons.

Seems like unless you have an elite QB, the strategy should be trying to find a cheap, serviceable QB versus overpay an average one.