Vikings Message Board.Com

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am

Green Bay's choice to draft Love, however, was laughable. Mark it down ... Jordan Love will not be the starter at any time during his rookie contract unless Aaron Rodgers gets hurt. Rodgers at 37 is still playing at a very high level. 2019 wasn't his best year statistically, but he was playing in a new offense for the first time in forever, and they still went 13-3. The biggest factor, however, was that the Packers needed weapons around him. Adams was great, but Valdes-Scantling was a drop machine and Lazard was a nice 3rd receiver but big and slow. Then they took Jordan Love, who many scouts felt (and still feel) has bust written all over him. Yes, Rodgers had a great year — 48 TDs to 5 picks is unbelievable. But if they lose in the playoffs because some team shuts down Adams and the others can't step up to fill the void ... watch the talons come out with fans and the media. They're gonna go right back to that Jordan Love pick. And that criticism will be justified.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:41 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am

Green Bay's choice to draft Love, however, was laughable. Mark it down ... Jordan Love will not be the starter at any time during his rookie contract unless Aaron Rodgers gets hurt. Rodgers at 37 is still playing at a very high level. 2019 wasn't his best year statistically, but he was playing in a new offense for the first time in forever, and they still went 13-3. The biggest factor, however, was that the Packers needed weapons around him. Adams was great, but Valdes-Scantling was a drop machine and Lazard was a nice 3rd receiver but big and slow. Then they took Jordan Love, who many scouts felt (and still feel) has bust written all over him. Yes, Rodgers had a great year — 48 TDs to 5 picks is unbelievable. But if they lose in the playoffs because some team shuts down Adams and the others can't step up to fill the void ... watch the talons come out with fans and the media. They're gonna go right back to that Jordan Love pick. And that criticism will be justified.

I remember when people were saying Rodgers was washed up after last year and no better than Cousins.

Claypool or Higgins (the more likely pick for the Pack) are upgrades over Scantling. Not enough that they would be the difference between losing in the playoff or winning it all though. I also think the Love pick pushed Rodgers to play better more than anything this off season. He had a little extra edge this year, and his team's decision to draft his eventual replacement played a big role in that edge.

37 is actually pretty old for a QB, but we see Brees, Favre and Brady play at a high level at that age and think every elite QB can last that long. We forget that Peyton Manning absolutely fell off a cliff at the age of 39, Carson Palmer only played well until he turned 38, and that Rivers and Big Ben both regressed at 38. Eli Manning was healthy for most of his career and he started showing signs of decline at the age of 36.

After this season it looks silly to have drafted Love so early, but if Rodgers ages like the typical QB (and remember that Rodgers is no iron man like Faver, Brady and Brees) and begins to get hurt regularly next season or regresses due to age, that Love pick could help the Packers more than any WR ever could have. It was a forward thinking pick for a team with tons of talent, something I wish the brain trust in MN would have had the balls to do in 2018 when Jackson fell to them and they took the luxury pick at CB in Hughes.

What happens if you put a blue-chip quarterback into the system?

That was the idea when the Green Bay Packers hired Matt LaFleur as their head coach in 2019. In the few seasons before LaFleur, Aaron Rodgers was still putting up good numbers but it was becoming more clear that he just wasn’t producing as efficiently as when he was in his prime. He lost trust in Mike McCarthy’s offense and was trying to make too many off-script plays and held the ball far too long.

When LaFleur was hired, it wasn’t all smooth sailing. It usually takes a season for quarterbacks to learn the system and LaFleur and Rodgers had to adapt to each other. For example, the system usually doesn’t give a ton of room for quarterbacks to audible at the line of scrimmage. There are “kill” calls and set audibles that quarterbacks have to make against certain defensive looks but they weren’t typically given license to change the call to whatever they wanted like Peyton Manning was famous for doing. Rodgers’ ability to adjust and change plays at the line of scrimmage is one of his greatest strengths so LaFleur smartly adjusted and gave Rodgers a lot of freedom pre-snap. There were some growing pains in Rodgers’ first season in the system. Even so, he still performed well enough to get the Packers in the NFC Championship.

Rodgers is by far the most talented quarterback currently running this system and this season, he’s fully ingrained in it. It’s made life easier on him and his talents are taking it to new heights. In the regular season, he passed for 48 touchdowns to only five interceptions and completed 70.7 percent of his passes while averaging 8.17 yards per attempt. He’s one of the frontrunners for what would be his third MVP award.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:47 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:41 am
I remember when people were saying Rodgers was washed up after last year and no better than Cousins.

Claypool or Higgins (the more likely pick for the Pack) are upgrades over Scantling. Not enough that they would be the difference between losing in the playoff or winning it all though. I also think the Love pick pushed Rodgers to play better more than anything this off season. He had a little extra edge this year, and his team's decision to draft his eventual replacement played a big role in that edge.

37 is actually pretty old for a QB, but we see Brees, Favre and Brady play at a high level at that age and think every elite QB can last that long. We forget that Peyton Manning absolutely fell off a cliff at the age of 39, Carson Palmer only played well until he turned 38, and that Rivers and Big Ben both regressed at 38. Eli Manning was healthy for most of his career and he started showing signs of decline at the age of 36.

After this season it looks silly to have drafted Love so early, but if Rodgers ages like the typical QB (and remember that Rodgers is no iron man like Faver, Brady and Brees) and begins to get hurt regularly next season or regresses due to age, that Love pick could help the Packers more than any WR ever could have. It was a forward thinking pick for a team with tons of talent, something I wish the brain trust in MN would have had the balls to do in 2018 when Jackson fell to them and they took the luxury pick at CB in Hughes.

You make good points on the Rodgers pick. Here's what I'll say.

I don't think competition pushed Aaron Rodgers to play better. I think being unfamiliar in an offense, after playing in the same offense for years under Mike McCarthy, stunted the progress of not only Rodgers, but the entire team. Now that he and the team have adjusted, the results are almost ridiculous.

Here's an excerpt from a great article in The Athletic (by the way, if you invest in only one paid sports journalism service, I highly recommend The Athletic ... I get lost in it every day for hours). The article is talking about the outside zone system that Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan have used to great effectiveness, and which the Vikings also use, by the way.

What happens if you put a blue-chip quarterback into the system?

That was the idea when the Green Bay Packers hired Matt LaFleur as their head coach in 2019. In the few seasons before LaFleur, Aaron Rodgers was still putting up good numbers but it was becoming more clear that he just wasn’t producing as efficiently as when he was in his prime. He lost trust in Mike McCarthy’s offense and was trying to make too many off-script plays and held the ball far too long.

When LaFleur was hired, it wasn’t all smooth sailing. It usually takes a season for quarterbacks to learn the system and LaFleur and Rodgers had to adapt to each other. For example, the system usually doesn’t give a ton of room for quarterbacks to audible at the line of scrimmage. There are “kill” calls and set audibles that quarterbacks have to make against certain defensive looks but they weren’t typically given license to change the call to whatever they wanted like Peyton Manning was famous for doing. Rodgers’ ability to adjust and change plays at the line of scrimmage is one of his greatest strengths so LaFleur smartly adjusted and gave Rodgers a lot of freedom pre-snap. There were some growing pains in Rodgers’ first season in the system. Even so, he still performed well enough to get the Packers in the NFC Championship.

Rodgers is by far the most talented quarterback currently running this system and this season, he’s fully ingrained in it. It’s made life easier on him and his talents are taking it to new heights. In the regular season, he passed for 48 touchdowns to only five interceptions and completed 70.7 percent of his passes while averaging 8.17 yards per attempt. He’s one of the frontrunners for what would be his third MVP award.

I don't think Jordan Love had anything to do with this.

And I respectfully disagree with you on wide receivers. This was one of the best WR classes in history, and the Packers took nobody. Meanwhile, it wasn't just Claypool. Tee Higgins was available when the Packers drafted. So was Michael Pittman. Brandon Aiyuk was taken just one pick in front of Green Bay. Justin Jefferson four picks. We Vikings fans should thank our lucky stars that Green Bay didn't move up further and steal JJ from us.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:31 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:47 am
You make good points on the Rodgers pick. Here's what I'll say.

I don't think competition pushed Aaron Rodgers to play better. I think being unfamiliar in an offense, after playing in the same offense for years under Mike McCarthy, stunted the progress of not only Rodgers, but the entire team. Now that he and the team have adjusted, the results are almost ridiculous.

Here's an excerpt from a great article in The Athletic (by the way, if you invest in only one paid sports journalism service, I highly recommend The Athletic ... I get lost in it every day for hours). The article is talking about the outside zone system that Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan have used to great effectiveness, and which the Vikings also use, by the way.



I don't think Jordan Love had anything to do with this.

And I respectfully disagree with you on wide receivers. This was one of the best WR classes in history, and the Packers took nobody. Meanwhile, it wasn't just Claypool. Tee Higgins was available when the Packers drafted. So was Michael Pittman. Brandon Aiyuk was taken just one pick in front of Green Bay. Justin Jefferson four picks. We Vikings fans should thank our lucky stars that Green Bay didn't move up further and steal JJ from us.

I actually agree that this was a great draft to be picking a WR, but I don't think a WR would have made a huge difference on the Packer season this year. They are the best offense in the NFL by a significant margin and if they falter in the playoffs it will most likely be because their defense struggles or their Oline can't hold up against an elite pass rush (what stopped them last season).

People assume the Pack would look towards draft a WR with their first pick if they hadn't drafted Love because they don't have a true #2, but the Packers didn't seem to be interested in drafting a WR at all in the 2020 draft. They didn't draft any this year in fact, and while the Love pick seems like a waste, they could have easily upgraded the #2 or #3 WR spot in the 4th, 5th or even the 6th rounds. WRs like Mooney, Davis, Johnson and People-Jones look very promising and were available to the Pack if they wanted them. Even Claypool could have been had if the Packers were willing to trade up in the 2nd. A huge blunder to not grab a WR in one of the deepest WR drafts we have had in a long time. Just like it was a pretty big blunder for Rick to opt for only drafting a returner instead of a real WR after the Jefferson selection.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:28 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:31 pm
I actually agree that this was a great draft to be picking a WR, but I don't think a WR would have made a huge difference on the Packer season this year. They are the best offense in the NFL by a significant margin and if they falter in the playoffs it will most likely be because their defense struggles or their Oline can't hold up against an elite pass rush (what stopped them last season).

People assume the Pack would look towards draft a WR with their first pick if they hadn't drafted Love because they don't have a true #2, but the Packers didn't seem to be interested in drafting a WR at all in the 2020 draft. They didn't draft any this year in fact, and while the Love pick seems like a waste, they could have easily upgraded the #2 or #3 WR spot in the 4th, 5th or even the 6th rounds. WRs like Mooney, Davis, Johnson and People-Jones look very promising and were available to the Pack if they wanted them. Even Claypool could have been had if the Packers were willing to trade up in the 2nd. A huge blunder to not grab a WR in one of the deepest WR drafts we have had in a long time. Just like it was a pretty big blunder for Rick to opt for only drafting a returner instead of a real WR after the Jefferson selection.

Interesting. You mention Donovan Peoples-Jones. He hasn't been a star, but he's shown promise, and he definitely has upside. Over a 3-game stretch late in the season, he had 8 catches for 221 yards, an average of nearly 28 YPC. Not bad for a 6th-round rookie.

Meanwhile, the Vikings took K.J. Osborn in the 5th. He's been terrible as a punt returner and played exactly zero snaps on offense.

Rick Spielman must've really been sold on Bisi Johnson as the Vikings' best option after AT and JJ.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:42 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:28 pm
Interesting. You mention Donovan Peoples-Jones. He hasn't been a star, but he's shown promise, and he definitely has upside. Over a 3-game stretch late in the season, he had 8 catches for 221 yards, an average of nearly 28 YPC. Not bad for a 6th-round rookie.

Meanwhile, the Vikings took K.J. Osborn in the 5th. He's been terrible as a punt returner and played exactly zero snaps on offense.

Rick Spielman must've really been sold on Bisi Johnson as the Vikings' best option after AT and JJ.

After JJ? They had him starting. Bisi is just a guy. We should have drafted two WRs in this draft.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:49 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:42 pm

After JJ? They had him starting. Bisi is just a guy. We should have drafted two WRs in this draft.

Who would you target at WR in this upcoming draft?

I'm going to assume the Vikings won't take a WR at #14, although I won't rule out the possibility that a top WR could fall to them at that slot. However, if a top WR did fall to #14, I think Spielman would get some good trade offers to move back in the 1st and pick up at least a 2nd and maybe more depending on the team he trades with.

I think if the Vikings were to be tempted at WR in this upcoming draft it would be in the 3rd-4th rounds where there may be some guys who have produced in college but might slide for a variety of reasons.

A guy I like who should be on the board in the 3rd and maybe even the 4th is Tutu Atwell out of Louisville. Very shifty and productive receiver who can become a reliable slot guy, and maybe even return kicks. Knock on him is his size, but he's productive and would be good value at that 2nd pick in the 3rd round.

Another guy who probably is going to rise pre-draft but who might still find his name uncalled in the 3rd is Trevon Grimes of Florida. Grimes took a backseat to Toney and Pitts, but he has all the physical tools to become a dominant receiver as a pro.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:40 pm While reading you post, the first WR that popped into my head was Toney. I think he will be available in the late 2nd and it would be worth our time to move up and take him with our two 3rds. I am a big fan. He is undersized but he will add a dimension to this offense we are lacking. We have two dynamic WRs and Cook is a straight dog but, adding a guy in a Percy Harvin role that will stress a defense laterally is much needed. In addition, I think he would solve our KR and PR problems. His burst, route running and hands are elite.