Vikings Message Board.Com

808vikingsfan wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

You could almost say CB was as big of a need or bigger than OL.

How? We have 2 starting Cbs and an inconsistent but young ncb. We have nothing at guard. Easton was decent at best and Danny is a question mark. We don't have a starter.

S197 wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

Or they could have got a day 1 starter in Daniels or Hernandez and followed it up with a ballhawk like Reid. Instead we have two likely backups with our first two picks and still no starting LG.

I agree. Not very excited with how the first two rounds panned out tbh.

S197 wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

Or they could have got a day 1 starter in Daniels or Hernandez and followed it up with a ballhawk like Reid. Instead we have two likely backups with our first two picks and still no starting LG.

Two backups? O’Neill can easily start day 1. If a 3rd rounder like elflein can contribute day 1, why couldn’t O’Neill. Looks like Remmers will be RG and O’Neill RT

FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

Eric Reid would have been a better BPA pick. And we could have got him and Hernandez or Daniels. That's a heck of a lot better duo than Hughes/O'Neill. You only have to look at the run on guard right after our pick to see that we missed the sweet spot.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

S197 wrote:

VikingLord wrote:The Hughes pick makes complete sense. Just watch the second half of the Saints playoff game and the whole playoff game against the Eagles to see why. I think Zimmer is still waking up with nightmares from those two games.

As to whether Hughes was a good pick I'm not as confident in that. The guy has clear ability. He can return kicks and punts well too. He is aggressive, which I think is probably what is most attractive to Zimmer about him. But he also only really shined for a year in college, plus he's had some off-field issues that could be a concern if he can't get his act cleaned up.

Overall, I don't hate the pick and completely understand why they went with a CB, but this is a high-risk, high-reward pick. He'll definitely get a chance to contribute right away as a returner.

Or they could have got a day 1 starter in Daniels or Hernandez and followed it up with a ballhawk like Reid. Instead we have two likely backups with our first two picks and still no starting LG.

Two backups? O’Neill can easily start day 1. If a 3rd rounder like elflein can contribute day 1, why couldn’t O’Neill. Looks like Remmers will be RG and O’Neill RT

Your stance on this is superficial. Ignore the rounds players are drafted in.

1. Pat was the 2nd Center taken I believe. This means when the Vikes were picking, there was plenty "meat left on the bone" at that position.
2. This guy was maybe the 12 OT selected in this draft. This means the OT position was picked over by the end of the 2nd round. More so than any draft I have ever seen.
3. Center usually go much later than OTs.

O'Neill can't contribute because he is way too weak. He simply does not have functional NFL strength. It was the same issue with Clemens, and a host of other OTs we have collected in recent years. We value foot work over power and it has not worked out at the Tackle position.

S197 wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

Eric Reid would have been a better BPA pick. And we could have got him and Hernandez or Daniels. That's a heck of a lot better duo than Hughes/O'Neill. You only have to look at the run on guard right after our pick to see that we missed the sweet spot.

Agreed

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

I do agree that Hurst (heart issues) is still there and so is Phillips. A big selection in round 3 can save this draft a bit.

S197 wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

Eric Reid would have been a better BPA pick. And we could have got him and Hernandez or Daniels. That's a heck of a lot better duo than Hughes/O'Neill. You only have to look at the run on guard right after our pick to see that we missed the sweet spot.

Pretty sure you mean Justin Reid and I feel we needed a CB more than a safety. We had zero depth if a CB got hurt. We have depth at safety and good starters. And again, everyone is all bummed about Hernandez but again, he’s a one trick pony. He’s only 6’2 so he has no shot of playing tackle. Or center for that matter. We now have a very good OLman that can play outside or inside and arguably a top 15 player in the entire draft in Hughes. A position we needed depth at along with a potential starter of Waynes doesn’t get kept or Alexander flops. No less Hughes is a dynamic return man.

So all in all we got a guy that can play inside CB
A guy that can play outside CB
An elite punt/kick returner
A Lineman that can play both tackle spots
A lineman that can play both guard spots

We got all that in two guys.

Vs Hernandez/Reid....

We get a guy that can play both guard spots
And we get a safety.

.....I think that goes to show that we got much more value out of our picks than what you wanted instead.

Reid was probably not on the board for the vikings.

YikesVikes wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

I do agree that Hurst (heart issues) is still there and so is Phillips. A big selection in round 3 can save this draft a bit.

No need to “save it”. We already have two very good selections. Reid is a poor mans harrison Smith. But that’s who you wanted too? So he can do what? Sit the bench? I don’t understand the value there. We don’t need a safety right now and we have safety depth. Our next CB behind Rhodes/Waynes/ Alexander is Marcus Sherels. Enough said. And we drafted behind a guy we could lose. Which is smart.

And is O’Neill allowing 1 sack and being an amazing pass blocker not registering with anyone? Just curious

Traded out. Gained Tampa’s 4th and 6th

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

S197 wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

Eric Reid would have been a better BPA pick. And we could have got him and Hernandez or Daniels. That's a heck of a lot better duo than Hughes/O'Neill. You only have to look at the run on guard right after our pick to see that we missed the sweet spot.

Pretty sure you mean Justin Reid and I feel we needed a CB more than a safety. We had zero depth if a CB got hurt. We have depth at safety and good starters. And again, everyone is all bummed about Hernandez but again, he’s a one trick pony. He’s only 6’2 so he has no shot of playing tackle. Or center for that matter. We now have a very good OLman that can play outside or inside and arguably a top 15 player in the entire draft in Hughes. A position we needed depth at along with a potential starter of Waynes doesn’t get kept or Alexander flops. No less Hughes is a dynamic return man.

So all in all we got a guy that can play inside CB
A guy that can play outside CB
An elite punt/kick returner
A Lineman that can play both tackle spots
A lineman that can play both guard spots

We got all that in two guys.

Vs Hernandez/Reid....

We get a guy that can play both guard spots
And we get a safety.

.....I think that goes to show that we got much more value out of our picks than what you wanted instead.

That's all unsubstantiated fluff to puff up your side. We have no idea if O'neill can play that many positions, he's an undersized converted TE.

I would have taken Daniels who is a great fit for our scheme and the best center in the draft. Pat has and can play guard. Kickoffs are slowly getting phased out and Sherels is a top punt returner. Hughes only started 11 games at UCF. Plus the character concerns. Why can't they draft for depth later in the draft?

I'm sure Hughes is a good player, the point is why do we need another? Our secondary is literally littered with top picks. Smith, Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, and Alexander. Now look at our o-line. Elflein (3rd), Easton (undrafted), Remmers (undrafted), Reiff (1st). It's very lopsided. Do we really want Remmers back at guard? Or Hill at RT? We give a guy $80M+ GUARANTEED and protect him with late day and undrafted picks. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

YikesVikes wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:FYI, O’Neill received the 3rd highest pass blocking grade in the class and allowed 1 sack in his final 852 snaps at Pitt. I said before this draft that we could go the BPA route in the first and then address from there. Idk what everyone is so bent out of shape about? We have a loaded defensive backfield with depth in the toughest conference out there. We also landed a very good offensive lineman in the 2nd round. And Maurice Hurst is still out there. Which could address a big need as well. Pump the breaks guys.

I do agree that Hurst (heart issues) is still there and so is Phillips. A big selection in round 3 can save this draft a bit.

No need to “save it”. We already have two very good selections. Reid is a poor mans harrison Smith. But that’s who you wanted too? So he can do what? Sit the bench? I don’t understand the value there. We don’t need a safety right now and we have safety depth. Our next CB behind Rhodes/Waynes/ Alexander is Marcus Sherels. Enough said. And we drafted behind a guy we could lose. Which is smart.

And is O’Neill allowing 1 sack and being an amazing pass blocker not registering with anyone? Just curious

He's not an amazing pass blocker. His team used him primarily on pulling. He lacks NFL strength. Is that registering? I.E. when he lines up with MEN... he is going to get bullrushed.

You also aren't focusing on the picture. The Packers were able to find 1st round talent at CB in both the 1st and 2nd round.
We found 4th round talent at OT in the 2nd. Even if we missed Hughes, who we took to address CB would be closer to his talent than this beefed up TE we selected. He is a project... Great feet decent hand placement, but poor strength (a need for Olinemen)

Great post S197. No reason for me to post what I was going to in fact. I guess I thought Rick would understand what quality linemen are at this point, but he neglects it again. Unless theres a lot more to O'Neil then Ive heard or seen anywhere.