Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Completely disagree with your last comment. Before the bye week, AP was leading the NFL in rushing yards and is like 4th now with a bye already under his belt. Bottom line is, KC had the box stacked when AP was out there. They didn't do that vs Asiata because he isn't a threat.

Not sure how you can say a guy that was leading the league in rushing yards all of the sudden isn't a good fit for this offense. Go back and actually watch the replays. The second the ball was in his gut, someone was in the backfield. They keyed on AP and forced Teddy to win that game which he nearly failed to do. Asiata isn't a threat and never will be so why stack the box against him?

He isn't a good fit in this offense. He's a good enough player that he can still make some plays, but most of them aren't coming out of the shotgun/pistol formations, where he looks lost.

I'm growing very tired of these measurements based on stats when simply watching the game makes these things obvious.

Notes: Bridgewater was under pressure 39.4 percent of the time on Sunday, which was his highest rate of the season, according to ESPN Stats and Information. He's struggled under pressure all season, and had a QB rating of 2.5 or less when he was under pressure for the third consecutive game on Sunday. He hit only three of his 11 throws under pressure, for 41 yards with an interception. When Bridgewater had a clean pocket on Sunday, he had a QBR of 96.9 -- the best in the league.

Notes: Peterson averaged just 1.54 yards before contact per carry on Sunday; he's had 18 games in his career where it's been tougher for him to find running room, but in all but two of those, he surpassed the 0.77-yards-after-contact average he had against the Chiefs. He left with leg and hand bruises at different times, but said after the game he could have returned for the last drive.

Coming off a tough day against the Broncos, Clemmings drew another difficult matchup against Houston. Clemmings held up fine in pass protection against the Pro Bowler, but he had a tough day in the running game, forcing Peterson to dance around him when he got pushed into the backfield on Peterson's one-yard loss near the goal line, and was also flagged for a false start in Chiefs territory. The Vikings' line in general had a tough day against a Chiefs front that was missing defensive tackle Dontari Poe; Harris got walked into the backfield on one of Kansas City's two sacks, and Berger and Fusco couldn't clear much room in the middle of the line, other than on Peterson's 23-yard run behind Fusco in the third quarter. Kalil might have been the Vikings' most consistent lineman on Sunday.

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikin ... ver-chiefs

Mothman wrote:That's correct, which might be enough for a wildcard spot and would be their best record since 2012.

That is probably more true than not. If the playoffs started now, the Vikings would be the 6th seed. Yeah, the rest of the NFC is that bad.

Norv Zimmer wrote:

If a team can completely stack the box to stop peterson to the effect that the Chiefs did and our offense can't do anything something is wrong.
Maybe having asiata in there opens up more running lanes?
Maybe Norv needs to change his playcalling? Peterson is not good at shotgun or pistol formations? Is teddy capable at playing under center? How come pretty much every play is a shotgun?
I am just saying something needs to change.

I think it's the fact that Teddy can't take advantage when they slow AP down is what it comes down to.

fiestavike wrote:He isn't a good fit in this offense. He's a good enough player that he can still make some plays, but most of them aren't coming out of the shotgun/pistol formations, where he looks lost.

So why keep running so many of those plays? Turner's version of the "Air Coryell" offense certainly doesn't need to be run from the shotgun so the idea that Peterson doesn't fit the offense doesn't add up. What he doesn't do is run very well from the shotgun, which shouldn't be a big surprise since it's primarily a passing formation. Most of the running plays they try from it deprive him of moemnetum and since the run blocking isn't exactly great, he tends to need that momentum to break tackles because he's often being met in the backfield or at the line.

I don't think he looks lost in the shotgun, he's simply less effective because the level of execution required to make him effective from that formation isn't there.

So why do the Vikings need to use the shotgun so much?

I'm growing very tired of these measurements based on stats when simply watching the game makes these things obvious.

Indeed it does. Turner is still trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

It was pretty darn obvious in the Vikings two most decisive wins this year that Peterson can fit quite well into this offense. He's not the problem. The problem is that opponents know he's still the biggest threat the Vikes have to beat them so defenses key on him and challenge the Vikes to beat them through the air. Through 5 games, their offense has produced just 3 passing TDs so that's a pretty good defensive strategy. Fortunately, on Sunday, the Vikes defense only allowed 10 points and they won anyway.

My big take away is that right now this is a team with a legitimate defense that could take it all the way to the big game and even be good enough to help win the big game. However, our offense is not good enough to hold up it's end of the bargain. I hope we improve, but it is frustrating. This reminds me of the 2008 season as well as the many of the years under Denny in the mid 90s where the defense was fantastic, but the offense just wasn't enough to win games.

Teddy needs to get better, but that pressure stat is telling. He needs to be better under pressure, but out OL is going to hamper us in that department.

dead_poet wrote: Thanks for the link. Ben Goessling posted this yesterday, during the game:

I think someone (you?) shared it here yesterday but it seemed worth repeating as an addition to what you posted above.

We already beat detroit handidly, remember?
Remember a bloody broken Stafford? Remember a Calvin Johnson who had a pretty average game and a touchdown that should have been reviewed but wasn't (I thought he was out of bounds). Their rushing offense had like 50 yards.
I am not scared of Detroit, yes they just put up 30 something on THE BEARS! But the bears also put 30 something on them. We have a much better defense than both of those teams. There is no way we give up 30 to Detroit.

Imo I Think Asiata and McKinnon are better for this offense than Peterson is..... Sucks to say it cause I wish he would dominate but I just don't think he can in this offensive scheme.[/quote]

Completely disagree with your last comment. Before the bye week, AP was leading the NFL in rushing yards and is like 4th now with a bye already under his belt. Bottom line is, KC had the box stacked when AP was out there. They didn't do that vs Asiata because he isn't a threat.

Not sure how you can say a guy that was leading the league in rushing yards all of the sudden isn't a good fit for this offense. Go back and actually watch the replays. The second the ball was in his gut, someone was in the backfield. They keyed on AP and forced Teddy to win that game which he nearly failed to do. Asiata isn't a threat and never will be so why stack the box against him?[/quote]


If a team can completely stack the box to stop peterson to the effect that the Chiefs did and our offense can't do anything something is wrong.
Maybe having asiata in there opens up more running lanes?
Maybe Norv needs to change his playcalling? Peterson is not good at shotgun or pistol formations? Is teddy capable at playing under center? How come pretty much every play is a shotgun?
I am just saying something needs to change.[/quote]


Have to agree......plus need to add the fact that even with Musgrave they found a way to utilize Patterson and got some production. All we heard last year was Patterson was a non factor because AP was out. I get it......this staff is just not high on Patterson but it's obvious that Turner is not very creative. I simply could not stand Musgrave and his postage stamp size play card but ya know what......the Chargers fans tried to warn us.

mansquatch wrote:My big take away is that right now this is a team with a legitimate defense that could take it all the way to the big game and even be good enough to help win the big game. However, our offense is not good enough to hold up it's end of the bargain. I hope we improve, but it is frustrating. This reminds me of the 2008 season as well as the many of the years under Denny in the mid 90s where the defense was fantastic, but the offense just wasn't enough to win games.

Teddy needs to get better, but that pressure stat is telling. He needs to be better under pressure, but out OL is going to hamper us in that department.

As a Vikings fan, I'm tired of them having half a team so often. Good defense but mediocre to bad offense. Good offense but mediocre to bad defense. I don't have a solution, aside from the fact the Vikings offense does not score enough points. There is athleticism there. That much is obvious.

Should the OL be better? Yes, and it could and should have been. Everybody and their brother knew the OL needed more depth and better starters in at least two spots. But it didn't happen. And then there is the playcalling and offensive scheme. Both are questionable. The last game was a good indicator of that. Last but not least is the curious use (and sometimes non-use) of talented players. I don't buy the notion that everything is on the players. Not in today's NFL game and not with the complex defensive schemes that are being utilized. That calls for good offensive coaching minds to find ways to get more horsepower from the offense and score more points.

I haven't read the whole tread yet so forgive me if I'm redundant.

Would like to have seen them continue their dominance throughout the game, but Andy Reid is a good coach and made some great adjustments. Particularly he found a way to give Alex Smith some extra time. Or the defense gave it to them. Maybe a little column A, a little column B.

There are two things that I am encouraged by. First, this is exactly the kind of game that the Vikings of the last several years would have dropped. I felt it in my bones that it was going to happen. That momentum shift that the Vikings could never seem to overcome in games where they lead early and spiral out of control. Instead, this defense stiffened again when it counted instead of completely falling apart.

The Chiefs sold out against Peterson and made Teddy beat them. Even with the bad plays he did enough to win. I know that Teddy can be really effective in the red zone and I look forward to him cleaning that up. If Diggs can continue his trajectory it will make teams start taking the passing game into account more. This will be one of the last games I think we'll see teams completely sell out against stopping the run as long as teams have to worry more about guarding the receivers.

Didn't like seeing the defense relax in the 3rd and early 4th.

We need one of these young guys thrust into starting roles to step up. Even just one more of them coming up to "solid" would be great. Sullivan can't come back soon enough. I hope he's truly healed when he does.

Cliff wrote: We need one of these young guys thrust into starting roles to step up. Even just one more of them coming up to "solid" would be great. Sullivan can't come back soon enough. I hope he's truly healed when he does.

Yeah, this OL is in dire need of a boost.

It was nice to see the defense stiffen and help seal the win. I was getting pretty worried in the 4th quarter.

fiestavike wrote: He isn't a good fit in this offense. He's a good enough player that he can still make some plays, but most of them aren't coming out of the shotgun/pistol formations, where he looks lost.

I'm growing very tired of these measurements based on stats when simply watching the game makes these things obvious.

My main criticism of AD is that he's putting the ball on the turf way too often. He made a bad decision yesterday to try to spin around and run backwards when no hole was open as well, but he got zero blocking. The Chiefs stacked the LOS and just closed off every running lane. No RB is going to succeed in that situation.

Minnesota Vikings
– WR Stefon Diggs was the go-to guy for QB Teddy Bridgewater (+0.5), as he gained 129 yards on seven receptions while running a variety of routes along the way. He turned both starting cornerbacks, Sean Smith and Marcus Peters, completely around with his deep-out routes in the first quarter before catching a well-placed back-shoulder throw on Smith later in the quarter. Six of Diggs’ seven catches went for first downs.

– The clear dominant pass rusher for Minnesota was DT Sharrif Floyd who finished at +5.4 with a sack, hit, and four hurries on 31 rushes. Floyd beat OG Ben Grubbs on four pressures, all to his outside shoulder, even busting out a spin-move that worked on Grubbs once and RG Zach Fulton another time.

– With starting DE Everson Griffen out for the game, rookie DE Danielle Hunter nearly doubled his career snap total with 50 on the afternoon. He had a strong game with a +1.2 overall grade that featured a sack and three hurries on his 38 rushes along with two run stops. He pressured OT Donald Stephenson inside multiple times and he was stout at the point of attack on a key third-and-one stop at the 3:20 mark of the second quarter. Overall, it was an encouraging outing for the third round rookie.

Top performers

DT Sharrif Floyd (+4.3)
WR Stefon Diggs (+3.6)
CB Captain Munnerlyn (+2.9)
LB Eric Kendricks (+2.6)
DT Linval Joseph (+1.6)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... nt-in-win/

dead_poet wrote: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... nt-in-win/

Maybe I stand alone on this one, but I think we should give Danielle Hunter the start over Brian Robison... Or at least more playing time over Robison. If neither of those situations occur (which, I doubt they will) then Hunter has definitely shown he deserves at least ten snaps a game. Hunter looked very impressive yesterday - something that was not the case in preseason.

VikingLord wrote: My main criticism of AD is that he's putting the ball on the turf way too often. He made a bad decision yesterday to try to spin around and run backwards when no hole was open as well, but he got zero blocking. The Chiefs stacked the LOS and just closed off every running lane. No RB is going to succeed in that situation.

So if they committed so much to stop peterson the passing game should do well right? The 2nd half the passing game was terrible.
All I am saying is I think something needs to change here are a couple ideas.
1. Less shotgun, teddy should be able to play from under center and AP is a much better runner there.
2. See step 1 but put in 3 TE and run it.
3. Try to keep the defense honest in the run game by adding in a reverse or jet sweep (maybe a way to get CP84 into the game)
4. Run more screens to anyone, seriously have we ran a screen at all this year?
5. Put sharriff floyd in as a blocking tight end, seriously that guy is a beast and would just push people around, imagine him leading the charge on a screen.

Haha was kinda kidding with number 5...... or was I?