Conference Championships- NFL

[Just Me]

If the goal of instant replay was to get calls right, there wouldn't be a challenge flag system in the first place. The entire system is in place to placate fans and gamblers.

I think that's partially true. The difficulty is in establishing the balance between "game flow" and "accuracy." The refs are human and are going to make mistakes. If unlimited challenges were/are allowed, you'd have coaches challenging plays just to give their offense/defense a rest (or "rolling the dice" in the hopes of a reversal of a detrimental play) and the games would last ridiculous lengths of time. So while the goal still is "to get it right" (whether that's precipitated by the fans or Vegas's desires or not) still is the underlying premise of the system. The challenge flag system is a "compromise" to maintain "game flow."

One can make compelling arguments against that method, but I still believe that's the main purpose of replay.

[Mothman]

I think that's partially true. The difficulty is in establishing the balance between "game flow" and "accuracy." The refs are human and are going to make mistakes. If unlimited challenges were/are allowed, you'd have coaches challenging plays just to give their offense/defense a rest (or "rolling the dice" in the hopes of a reversal of a detrimental play) and the games would last ridiculous lengths of time. So while the goal still is "to get it right" (whether that's precipitated by the fans or Vegas's desires or not) still is the underlying premise of the system. The challenge flag system is a "compromise" to maintain "game flow."

One can make compelling arguments against that method, but I still believe that's the main purpose of replay.

I just think if the goal is really to get the game right, or even just to get the key plays of the game right, the system needs to be modified. I remember how the previous system worked and I agree that the challenge flag system helps game flow. It even adds an element of strategy which can be interesting. However, at the very least, if the goal is to get key aspects of the game right, the replay officials should be empowered to intervene, regardless of the original call on the field. They automatically review scoring plays now. If they see a clear or likely change of possession has occurred that wasn't called, they should have the authority to signal the officials and say 'Hey, there was a fumble and change of possession on that play. You understandably missed but we could clearly see it on film. You need to review the play".

To me, it's particularly clear that the system is inadequate when an egregious blown call can stand simply because a coach has already used his challenges and the game isn't in the final two minutes of a half. If the goal is to get it right, it shouldn't take a challenge flag every time. No change of possession that clearly takes place on film should ever go uncalled when they have the technology to get it right.

[Just Me]

I just think if the goal is really to get the game right, or even just to get the key plays of the game right, the system needs to be modified. I remember how the previous system worked and I agree that the challenge flag system helps game flow. It even adds an element of strategy which can be interesting. However, at the very least, if the goal is to get key aspects of the game right, the replay officials should be empowered to intervene, regardless of the original call on the field. They automatically review scoring plays now. If they see a clear or likely change of possession has occurred that wasn't called, they should have the authority to signal the officials and say 'Hey, there was a fumble and change of possession on that play. You understandably missed but we could clearly see it on film. You need to review the play".

To me, it's particularly clear that the system is inadequate when an egregious blown call can stand simply because a coach has already used his challenges and the game isn't in the final two minutes of a half. If the goal is to get it right, it shouldn't take a challenge flag every time. No change of possession that clearly takes place on film should ever go uncalled when they have the technology to get it right.

I think that's true. In the process (Yeah, like I have the power to make it happen ) of re-vamping the criteria for which replay is reviewed, I believe penalties should be made to be reviewable. To me, it's just silly that the league can "apologize" after the fact, but they can't correct it at the time it happens when everyone knows it's the wrong call.

[Mothman]

I think that's true. In the process (Yeah, like I have the power to make it happen ) of re-vamping the criteria for which replay is reviewed, I believe penalties should be made to be reviewable. To me, it's just silly that the league can "apologize" after the fact, but they can't correct it at the time it happens when everyone knows it's the wrong call.

I wholeheartedly agree. Now make it happen!

[BGM]

well, obviously you are putting words in my mouth, but I believe we are witnessing the proleterianization of America. So, a society that finds taunting and trash talking acceptable and begins to adopt or make excuses for these lower class behaviors is on the road to demise. You can read Arnold Toynbee if you want to know more about it. I generally do subscribe to his understanding of civilizational decline. And I think this is a prime example.

Toynbee is an interesting moralist, but his historical theories are widely discredited. He looked for patterns, and he found them by imposing his own spiritual beliefs upon the empirical evidence - at least that was the main criticism of his work. Morality, or the lack of it, is not a common denominator in the rise or fall of any civilization - at least there is no evidence of it as a factor.

Economic and political factors are far more consistent augurs of a civilization in rise or decline.

But we digress. If civilization truly hinges on whether we accept less cultured forms of speech and expression, then we should have been gone ages ago.

[Mothman]

Toynbee is an interesting moralist, but his historical theories are widely discredited. He looked for patterns, and he found them by imposing his own spiritual beliefs upon the empirical evidence - at least that was the main criticism of his work. Morality, or the lack of it, is not a common denominator in the rise or fall of any civilization - at least there is no evidence of it as a factor.

Economic and political factors are far more consistent augurs of a civilization in rise or decline.

But we digress. If civilization truly hinges on whether we accept less cultured forms of speech and expression, then we should have been gone ages ago.

I suppose the question becomes whether or not less cultured forms of speech and expression are an indication of the unfavorable economic and political factors you mentioned.

This is an interesting subject but we probably shouldn't stray too far afield from football. Setting the larger societal picture aside, I think Sherman's behavior is simply an example of poor sportsmanship. Some find it acceptable or entertaining and others find it in poor taste and disrespectful. Count me among the latter.

[Funkytown]

I get it Joe, you love Aaron Rodgers and rewatch Packer games at home pantless...

That was good. Thanks for the laugh!

[DanAS]

I suppose the question becomes whether or not less cultured forms of speech and expression are an indication of the unfavorable economic and political factors you mentioned.

This is an interesting subject but we probably shouldn't stray too far afield from football. Setting the larger societal picture aside, I think Sherman's behavior is simply an example of poor sportsmanship. Some find it acceptable or entertaining and others find it in poor taste and disrespectful. Count me among the latter.

Even Sherman has apologized, quite sincerely I suspect, for singling out certain individuals for poor play. He screwed up. Fine. And that wasn't the first time (see, e.g., his rant against Bayless).

But in the larger scheme of things, he is a hero. After growing up in Compton, he seriously embraced academics, now does a ton for his community, and hasn't broken any law to our knowledge. The guy is actually a great man.

People can point to his failures, but all great men have failures, and I suspect they are manifested the most when they are still growing up. This kid isn't even half of my age, and it hardly surprises me to see a 25 year old who can act like an immature punk. But at the end of the day, I bet you he will end up doing more good for his species than 99+ percent of our society, for he is gifted, purposeful, and his heart seems generally to be in the right place.

Let's please put his life in perspective, rather than taking shots at his obvious mistakes, which even he admits to. If you want to take shots, pick the players who commit assaults, drink and drive, break the gun laws ... or hell, pick the phonies who subscribe to the "Crash Davis" school of responding to the media.

[Mothman]

Even Sherman has apologized, quite sincerely I suspect, for singling out certain individuals for poor play. He screwed up. Fine. And that wasn't the first time (see, e.g., his rant against Bayless).

But in the larger scheme of things, he is a hero. After growing up in Compton, he seriously embraced academics, now does a ton for his community, and hasn't broken any law to our knowledge. The guy is actually a great man.

People can point to his failures, but all great men have failures, and I suspect they are manifested the most when they are still growing up. This kid isn't even half of my age, and it hardly surprises me to see a 25 year old who can act like an immature punk. But at the end of the day, I bet you he will end up doing more good for his species than 99+ percent of our society, for he is gifted, purposeful, and his heart seems generally to be in the right place.

Let's please put his life in perspective, rather than taking shots at his obvious mistakes, which even he admits to. If you want to take shots, pick the players who commit assaults, drink and drive, break the gun laws ... or hell, pick the phonies who subscribe to the "Crash Davis" school of responding to the media.

Dan, all I said was that Sherman's behavior (and if I didn't make it clear, I was specifically referring to his behavior immediately after the end of last Sunday's NFC Championship game) was an example of poor sportsmanship, in poor taste and disrespectful. I don't think any of that is inaccurate and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be criticized for such behavior, regardless of how gifted, purposeful or generous he is as a person. As you said, he screwed up.

I dont need to put his life in perspective. I never lost any perspective on it. I simply criticized one instance of his behavior. I didn't call him a bad person.

[DanAS]

Dan, all I said was that Sherman's behavior (and if I didn't make it clear, I was specifically referring to his behavior immediately after the end of last Sunday's NFC Championship game) was an example of poor sportsmanship, in poor taste and disrespectful. I don't think any of that is inaccurate and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be criticized for such behavior, regardless of how gifted, purposeful or generous he is as a person. As you said, he screwed up.

I dont need to put his life in perspective. I never lost any perspective on it. I simply criticized one instance of his behavior. I didn't call him a bad person.

Fair enough. Sherman does need to grow up. But I hope he doesn't lose his thymos or his willingness to be an "original." I like the kid a lot. Moreover, as Coach David Shaw said about his wildness, you need a little of that "dog" in you to play cornerback. I've always been an aficionado of that position, even though it hasn't really been a strength of the Vikes over the decades.

[Raptorman]

I do think that choking move he did to Crabtree will come back to haunt him.

[Mothman]

Fair enough. Sherman does need to grow up. But I hope he doesn't lose his thymos or his willingness to be an "original." I like the kid a lot. Moreover, as Coach David Shaw said about his wildness, you need a little of that "dog" in you to play cornerback. I've always been an aficionado of that position, even though it hasn't really been a strength of the Vikes over the decades.

That's an understatement!

You've taught me a new word, Dan. I had never encountered the word thymos until I read your post. Thanks.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The refs called the game the same way they called it the previous times these 2 teams met. They let them plays.

I have far more tolerance for the best CB Ive seen play (with all the trash talk he hears during the game) and then some nit wit reporter asks him a question seconds after the game, while he is still pumped up, then I do for JA, after a sack, doing his stupid cattle rope thing, AFTER running as far away from his teammate, who want to congratulate him. That sickens me, like he made the sack, all by himself. That's selfish and classless.

[Cliff]

"We judge ourselves by our best intentions and most noble acts but we will be judged by our last worst act." - Michael Josephson

[King James]

Good article written by Sherman on the interview/Crabtree/etc.

‘To Those Who Would Call Me a Thug or Worse …’
I show passion on the football field—but that’s only a small part of who I am. If you want to judge me, I can handle it.
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/20/richard-s ... -crabtree/

The word "thug" used in situations like this is just politically correct way to call a black person/athlete the N-Word.


As for Sherman, if any of you watched the NFL Mic'd up segment with Richard Sherman in it, you can see at the end he told Crabtree good game and then Crabtree shoved his face. I think things between those two are personal. One 49ers fan told me that Crabtree and Boldin jaw defenders after every catch. He told me they did it alot first Green Bay. Either way, these are just some passionate players. Plus it is a playoff game!!! Tensions will rise and words will be said.