Peterson and his 2,500 yard goal.

[MV711]

AP is my guy and I wish him to be deemed the greatest of all-time when he's finished, but this ballyhooed nonsense about his yards is irrelevant to me.

I just want to see them win a Super Bowl, dudes.

AMEN!!!

[UltraNasty850]

To all of you who doubt Peterson, obviously you haven't watched him play over the last 6 years. To all of you trying to be "realistic", you haven't been watching either.

Don't doubt AP... ever.

Personally, id love to see him go over 2000 again and I'd be happy. I would really like to see his name at the top of the single season rushing record as well, as he deserves it. I wouldn't mind watching him break his own record of 296 for the single game record either.

Bottom line: We found out that its gunna take more than 3 defenders and a blown up knee to stop AP. Hes in his prime and will be for a few years to come. You just dont know with this guy. Anything can happen.

All Day Baby

[Reignman]

Dude he had no training camp

I've already put this excuse to rest, see Cam Newton and Andy Dalton.

and then suffered a dibilitating hip pointer and a shoulder injury.

That's a new angle from the apologists. I give you credit for coming up with something new, but you're digging deep here xD.

Besides Harvin he had no wide recievers and a crappy line.

Yawn is right, these 2 excuses are getting pretty tired. Time to put them to bed.

Fastforward to 2012 and even a basher can see his definate improvement.

Lol a "basher"? That's funny because I don't have to twist anything when I "bash" Ponder, I only need to state the facts. But when you guys apologize for him, it requires statistical gymnastics, throwing everyone else under the bus, and a lot of hoping. But now we've had the words "definate" and "dramatic" used to describe Ponders barely measurable improvement from 2011 to 2012. You guys do know jedi mind tricks only work in person right lol? "This isn't the Ponder you've watched all season" -- Ben Kenobi

Winning four crucial games, beating the Packers in a must win (posting a 120 QB rating with 3 td passes and no ints.) getting to the play-offs. One and one half seasons and fans like you already have written him off.

Oh it was Ponder that won those 4 games when in 2 of them he had 91 and 131 yards passing with 0 TD's? It's funny how Ponders "progress" coincides with AD running out of his mind while he inched closer and closer to the single season rushing record. You do realize we could substitute Ponder with just about any bottom QB in the league and our passing production couldn't get much worse right? Besides, I never wrote him off for being under center when AD and the defense carried him to those final 4 wins, I wrote him off in the previous 12 games when he played like crap and made the final 4 games must win for AD and the defense in the first place.

haha, you're right, that is funny! Especially since you can pretty much flip the nouns and have the argument work both ways, nearly word for word! Let me explain.

Some seem to forget the plays we run have a lot to do with the skill (or lack there of) of the guys catching the ball. With a shorter game plan, you're going to see a rise in Harvin and companies Yac, about the only thing they do well. That would also help explain the drop in INT's. Shorter passes, more conservative play calling, and taking fewer chances. In other words after seeing what they had in 2011, they decided to do the smart thing and not force what isn't there to guys who couldn't get separation or open down the field. I wonder why.

Oh I see what you did there xD. It's a valid alternative theory, however, those of us not suffering from delusion and denial have come to the conclusion that the problem is more likely that of 1 guy and not a combination of the other 10 and bad coaching ... well 9 because we all agree AD isn't the problem. But let me borrow a page from the Ponder apologists handbook and ask why you guys give Ponder credit when he plays well but then you throw the receivers, O-line, and Musgrave under the bus when he's sub 100? How do you know the receivers weren't just finally catching the ball and running the right routes, the O-line finally blocking everyone, and Musgrave finally using both hands to pull his head out of his backside?

I still think the last four games of the season were the bellweather as a measure of Ponder's progress, and those games were all very good. Ponder threw it downfield more, was more accurate, was awesome on 3rd down, and his play was a reason the Vikes won those games

The people who think Ponder played well or good in the last 4 games really need to go back and look at those 4 games, or they need to look up the definition of the word "good" xD. If he was throwing the ball down field more and was more accurate, how come he only threw for 91, 131, and 174 yards and a combined 1 TD in 3 of those games? The final Packer game is the only game he played well and that was mostly because the Packers D sold out on stopping AD from breaking the single season rushing record. And Ponder was far from accurate, in the final 4 games he only completed 60.9% of his passes (60/99). Pretty pathetic when you consider most of his pass attempts were near the LoS.

Personally, id love to see him go over 2000 again and I'd be happy. I would really like to see his name at the top of the single season rushing record as well, as he deserves it. I wouldn't mind watching him break his own record of 296 for the single game record either.

I wouldn't mind seeing him break Emmitt Smiths career record, and win a super bowl MVP award or 2 in the process. But you're right, he's a freak and could stay in his prime much longer than most RB's. I could see him remaining productive well into his mid 30's when most backs hit a wall at 32. If not, he still has 5 good seasons left.

[headless_norseman]

@Reignman

Tiresome knowitall attitude.

[VikingLord]

The people who think Ponder played well or good in the last 4 games really need to go back and look at those 4 games, or they need to look up the definition of the word "good" xD. If he was throwing the ball down field more and was more accurate, how come he only threw for 91, 131, and 174 yards and a combined 1 TD in 3 of those games? The final Packer game is the only game he played well and that was mostly because the Packers D sold out on stopping AD from breaking the single season rushing record. And Ponder was far from accurate, in the final 4 games he only completed 60.9% of his passes (60/99). Pretty pathetic when you consider most of his pass attempts were near the LoS.

I like how you break out 3 games as evidence to back your position while then discounting the one data point that doesn't support your argument.

Look, even you have to admit that Ponder's play in the final 4 games contributed more to the Vikings winning those games than losing them. Neither you nor I know what the Vikings were asking Ponder to do in those games. The fact also remains that 2 of those games were road contests, and one of them was against one of the top teams in the AFC, while another was a home game against a divisional rival that needed to win to get a bye.

So yes, I'll concede that Ponder didn't statistically set the world on fire in those last 4 games. I'll also concede those last 4 games are hardly de facto evidence that Ponder is turning the corner. But you have to concede that Ponder's performance over those last 4 games represented a noticeable and significant departure from most of his previous performances by a pretty wide margin under difficult circumstances. He can build off that, or at least should get more chances.

Through most of the year I was very skeptical that Ponder was the right guy. Even right now I'd say I'm 50-50 as to whether Ponder will ultimately prove to be the guy at QB. Vikes could very well end up back in the market at QB in this upcoming draft and/or could easily finish the year with Cassell behind center. But I'm optimistic whereas before I was more pessimistic. And I don't think my optimism is unwarranted, nor should it be taken as apologetic towards Ponder.

[Reignman]

@Reignman

Tiresome knowitall attitude.

Well played. I concede. You have made me see what Mothman, mondry, Purple Bruise, and VikingLord have failed to do combined with their well thought out lengthy arguments. I see it now, Ponder is the best player in NFL history. I didn't know it was so simple. How could I have been so ignorant? Forgive me while I crawl back beneath the rock from which I came and begin eating my crow.

[headless_norseman]

I rest my case - court adjourned.

[mondry]

Oh I see what you did there xD. It's a valid alternative theory, however, those of us not suffering from delusion and denial have come to the conclusion that the problem is more likely that of 1 guy and not a combination of the other 10 and bad coaching ... well 9 because we all agree AD isn't the problem. But let me borrow a page from the Ponder apologists handbook and ask why you guys give Ponder credit when he plays well but then you throw the receivers, O-line, and Musgrave under the bus when he's sub 100? How do you know the receivers weren't just finally catching the ball and running the right routes, the O-line finally blocking everyone, and Musgrave finally using both hands to pull his head out of his backside?

Well you got closer, but still a little off, it was a combination of all 11 players on offense, almost there though! If only AD was better at pass blocking and catching the football...

[Purple bruise]

Well played. I concede. You have made me see what Mothman, mondry, Purple Bruise, and VikingLord have failed to do combined with their well thought out lengthy arguments. I see it now, Ponder is the best player in NFL history. I didn't know it was so simple. How could I have been so ignorant? Forgive me while I crawl back beneath the rock from which I came and begin eating my crow.

Try and play it off but your constant bashing and negativity gets really old

[Mothman]

I've already put this excuse to rest, see Cam Newton and Andy Dalton.

They're different players on different teams and they were in different circumstances. Newton is clearly a much more talented player as well so that's really an apples and oranges comparison. There's no reason ponder should ahve been expected to perform like the top pick in the draft during his rookie season.

Furthermore, if I recall correctly, once the lockout ended, both Dalton and Newton spent the vast majority of the camp/preseason time that year working as the presumed starters for their teams. In other words, they got their reps with the starting offense and gained experience with a level of preparation Ponder didn't experience. McNabb was getting those starter's reps with the Vikings.

Oh it was Ponder that won those 4 games when in 2 of them he had 91 and 131 yards passing with 0 TD's? It's funny how Ponders "progress" coincides with AD running out of his mind while he inched closer and closer to the single season rushing record. You do realize we could substitute Ponder with just about any bottom QB in the league and our passing production couldn't get much worse right? Besides, I never wrote him off for being under center when AD and the defense carried him to those final 4 wins, I wrote him off in the previous 12 games when he played like crap and made the final 4 games must win for AD and the defense in the first place.

If he you think he played like crap in all of the previous 12 games, you weren't paying attention. There were some games in which he played very well.

Look, you can be dismissive and label anyone who presents a cogent argument in Ponder's favor as a delusional apologist but in the end, that's just attitude and misdirection (ie: shooting the messenger). The bottom line production argument only goes so far too. If yardage totals are such a crucial measurement of QB performance then Ponder's 352 yard passing performance against Washington must have been a triumph, eh? It wasn't of course, but since we all know 91 or 131 yards passing must indicate sub-par performance then 352 yards passing must indicate a great game!

The truth is simply that Ponder is a work-in-progress. He's had some bad games and some good ones but he's not wholly bad and he clearly has a lot left to prove. He played on a team with some other issues. His teammates had an influence on his performances and his play had an impact on them as well. Any attempt to ignore all of that and place an inordinate amount of blame on him (or to give him a degree of credit wildly out of proportion to his actual contribution) simply isn't credible. The idea you put forth above, that "the problem is more likely that of 1 guy and not a combination of the other 10 and bad coaching" is ridiculous because there were clearly other issues on the offense. The Vikings offensive problems involved 11+ players, not one. In other words, "the problem" is likely not singular. It's not a problem, there are problems and the degree to which Ponder is one of them is debatable, even though there's no doubt that his play was problematic at times.

Anyone who really paid attention to the games could see all of the above and if they couldn't, announcers, columnists, beat reporters, etc. were all handily pointing it out. Placing all of the passing game's issues on one player is as absurd as giving all of the credit for a passing game's success to one player (any player).

[dead_poet]

Furthermore, if I recall correctly, once the lockout ended, both Dalton and Newton spent the vast majority of the camp/preseason time that year working as the presumed starters for their teams. In other words, they got their reps with the starting offense and gained experience with a level of preparation Ponder didn't experience. McNabb was getting those starter's reps with the Vikings.

This. Is. Important.

[NextQuestion]

If AP goes for 2,500 yards...I take that as Ponder didn't improve at all and Jennings wasn't used at all.

[Eli]

If AP goes for 2,500 yards...I take that as Ponder didn't improve at all and Jennings wasn't used at all.

Not necessarily. Ponder only had 2900 yards last year. He could improve on that while the Vikings give Peterson the ball 35 times a game. But the latter isn't going to happen.

[Funkytown]

Yes, I have. Even if you think I haven't.

Well, Peterson wants to be more involved in the passing game. So you can look forward to him having more catches...I mean drops.

“A lot of people have this misconception that, 'Adrian cannot catch the ball.' And that's so false," Peterson said. "They've really never thrown it to the running backs (here). But (Brett) Favre believed in us more and he (was) checking it down to us and getting the ball into our hand in the open field."

Peterson would be an easy target for quarterback Christian Ponder as a check-down receiver. The Vikings simply need to design it a little better. Peterson caught 40 passes last season but for only 217 yards – a 5.4 average. He caught 43 balls for 436 yards in 2009 and there is no reason to think that with his open-field ability he cannot average 10 yards per catch like that. It will be interesting to see early in the season if the team makes an effort to get the ball to Peterson in space more often.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/dont-forge ... --nfl.html

I love Peterson to death, but I'm not as concerned with his individual stats and goals as I am the team's. I just wanna win. Is it more likely if Peterson reaches his insane goals? Sure. I'm just saying: I wanna freakin' win. I wanna win it all--whatever that means as far as Ponder's or Peterson's individual stats...I don't care! This is a team sport, and if the Vikings can put a 1 in the W column after each game--that's the only stat I care about.

[Demi]

I love Peterson to death, but I'm not as concerned with his individual stats and goals as I am the team's. I just wanna win.

So do the coaches, which is why they trot Gerhart out there on third downs.

If AD wants more touches, he should flap his lips less and work on blocking and catching the ball more. This isn't just no-nothing fans who don't watch tape. His own offensive coordinator takes him off the field on third downs.