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Those days are gone, was fun, lets let it go with one final teer. Lets find the next AJ Green.PurpleMustReign wrote: A fan can hope
Are you saying the massive reach, for Ponder@12, was a sound move? After Locker, who I wanted, was gone, and the equally massive reach for Gabbert. I wanted Dalton, but this team needs to scout QBs better. I mean, are they letting their kids scout QBs? Look at all the decent QBs, other teams find. This is unacceptable, to be this inept. Kaepernik, Wilson, Cousins, teams are finding QBs who can play, the Vikings wasted number 12 on a game manager. If they can't achieve more competant scouting than this, said scouts need to be fired. Because other teams, are locating QBs, who may have had this team playing deeper into January.MrPurplenGold wrote:
who would you have picked over Ponder?
That's not what kept him from playing in Green Bay. A triceps injury that was initially mis-reported as an elbow injury kept from playing in Green Bay.PurpleHalo wrote:Not to mention, Ponder had elbow issues in college, and thats what kept him from playing in Green Bay.
Ponder was way more of a reach, no other team would have touched him before round 3. Not an NFL arm. This is Dilfer, you need a big time defense, to win it all with him. Put that arm in Chicago, we've seen the results, try New York in January, sorry, no go. And if a QB wasn't worth it at 12, who knows. After Jj Watt went at 11, nothing impresses me, even in hindsight. Crappy class, outside of the first 7 and Watt, first round was icky.MrPurplenGold wrote:[
I'm saying there wasn't anyone else worth picking at that position. QBs are over drafted because of their value to a team. the talent base of first round of the 2011 draft overall just wasn't very good
my question for you was with who was available after ponder who would you have picked and you can say Dalton but he would have been just as big of a reach as ponder
I think that is a bit of a stretch. Just for example this article suggests he has the possibility of being great. Ironically, it talks about "Good Ponder" vs "Bad Ponder" before the Vikes drafted him. I chose this article for reference as it made these observations before he was drafted, so I give it a little more weight in determining what the opinions were before the draft than the "20/20 hindsight" evaluations.PurpleHalo wrote: Ponder was way more of a reach, no other team would have touched him before round 3.
IF Ponder becomes the "next Eli Manning" I'd be happy with the pick. Even if he doesn't, the alternative would have been to be satisfied with Donovan McNabb, Sage Rosenfels, and Joe Webb for our QB corps. Yes, we could have picked a different QB at #12 (again with hindsight) but how many people would have been bashing that pick if that selection was wrong. The fact is: the Vikings needed to draft a QB (we'd ignored it for far to long). In the end, I'd rather they "swing and strikeout" than forfeit their time at bat on a called strike 3 because the ball wasn't in the ideal position over the plate. If Ponder "strikes out" next year, we'll get another "at bat." Ponder doesn't have to hit a "home run" for this team (that's AD's job). He just needs a base hit to keep things going.The closest NFL QB that had similar data across the board in college with Ponder (circa 2010), including physically, is Chad Henne. There are also some Eli Manning comps in there as well. Both of them kinda make sense. I could see Ponder being "good" like Eli Manning, but not elite...just good. I also could see him struggling with flashes of really good games to get people excited...only to let them down -- like Chad Henne did.
I recall Kiper projecting him as a third rounder (I don't know if that was his final projection, just something he said) but nobody else. Injuries definitely dropped his stick and he was widely projected as a late first round or a second round pick. There's no doubt that the Vikings drafted him higher than projected but the idea that no other team would have touched him before round 3 has absolutely no sound basis.80 PurplePride 84 wrote:You should go back and do more research. Ponder was never projected any lower than a 2nd round from the beginning of his senior year. His stock dropped a little due to injuries but then it shot back up after the Senior Bowl MVP.
Well said. The idea that his arm strength was the reason no team would supposedly touch him until R3 doesn't hold up under scrutiny. It's hyperbole so let's put an end to it now. Ponder's arm strength was widely viewed as NFL-caliber but not elite. Here's some 2011 pre-draft analysis culled from a quick Google search that supports both the second round projections and the analysis of arm strength. These weren't cherry picked. I just went from one search result to another and they all thought Ponder had an "NFL arm".No doubt Ponder was a reach but I hate people making these baseless claims that he was a 3rd or 4th round prospect. We took him about 20-30 picks too high, not 2 or 3 rounds. If we take Dalton (who also woulda been a reach) or some other position it's highly unlikely Ponder gets passed Washington at 41 and as I said before they may have took him as high as 16, which could be why the Vikings thought they had to reach for him.
Rob Rang:Has enough arm strength but doesn't put elite zip on the ball and will try to fit it into too many tight spots downfield. Ponder has slowly climbed up boards, and he is almost certain to go in the second round.
Mike Mayock:Arm Strength: Doesn't own a Matthew Stafford-type howitzer, but has plenty of arm strength to make every NFL throw. Good zip on underneath routes; showcasing enough drive to push the ball through tight windows for the quick slant. Good timing and accuracy make up for a lack of a dominant arm for the deep-out. Effective deep-ball thrower; able to launch the ball 50-plus yards with velocity and trajectory.
http://www.sportsagentblog.com/about/ch ... t-profile/When I look at Ponder, who has a slightly above average arm and good feet, he’s smart and a good leader.
His arm strength seems to be good enough but not great.
http://gridironexperts.com/nfl-draft-pr ... ian-ponderI have him valued as a sure fire second rounder and that appears to be where he will go in the 2011 NFL Draft.
More:Ponder has great zip on his throws, can lead a receiver with fluid rhythm, or hit you on a 50 yard over the shoulder rainbow.
Currently with the high demand for quarterbacks, and the fact that each QB prospect seems to have his own flavor for potential bust disaster, it’s hard to predict where Christian Ponder might go. Personally, I think Christian Ponder would be an excellent 2nd round selection who could thrive learning for a season on the sidelines.
IF Ponder becomes the "next Eli Manning" I'd be happy with the pick. Even if he doesn't, the alternative would have been to be satisfied with Donovan McNabb, Sage Rosenfels, and Joe Webb for our QB corps. Yes, we could have picked a different QB at #12 (again with hindsight) but how many people would have been bashing that pick if that selection was wrong. The fact is: the Vikings needed to draft a QB (we'd ignored it for far to long). In the end, I'd rather they "swing and strikeout" than forfeit their time at bat on a called strike 3 because the ball wasn't in the ideal position over the plate. If Ponder "strikes out" next year, we'll get another "at bat." Ponder doesn't have to hit a "home run" for this team (that's AD's job). He just needs a base hit to keep things going.Just Me wrote: The closest NFL QB that had similar data across the board in college with Ponder (circa 2010), including physically, is Chad Henne. There are also some Eli Manning comps in there as well. Both of them kinda make sense. I could see Ponder being "good" like Eli Manning, but not elite...just good. I also could see him struggling with flashes of really good games to get people excited...only to let them down -- like Chad Henne did.
[/quote]I agree. I think most of the times he underthrew a ball on a deep throw was because of his footwork, mechanics, etc. I don't think his arm strength was the issue.mansquatch wrote:If Ponder had a noodle arm then why did he make perfect throws on deep bombs to both JW and DA late in the season? Could it be that his off deep throws were not a result of poor arm strength, but a result of bad mechanics? Maybe I’m too easy to convince, but that settles the topic for me.
Demi,Demi wrote:I like how most of the scouting reports have some caveat about his "adequate" arm strength. Could it be mechanical? Sure. But it's still an issue regardless of why. And it's been an issue for years. Two years into his NFL career and it's still an issue.
I'm sure sick of 6'2 "West Coast" Quarterbacks with "adequate" arms and "athleticism".
How about we look at the QBs left in the playoffs? 6'4, 6'4, 6'4, 6'6. And only one of them is closer to a 4.0 than a 5.0. And it's his first year. How many years have tall pocket passer with more then adequate arm strength stood tall in the pocket and went through there reads to get to, and win, playoff games? Part of this teams struggles is it's strict adherence to the "system" in many cases regardless of actual overall talent and results!
