Check Down Charlie

[purplehaze]

I don't hate Ponder. I just do not think this guy is gonna take us anywhere. I do not see any zip on his passes. Like mosscarter said when is the last time you saw Ponder in the redzone drill one in the endzone to a receiver with some zip? I have seen plenty of high lob floaters. I also agree with Viking Lord that he backpedals first. Very rarely do you see him step up in the pocket and zip one to a receiver. His first instinct is to get the hell out of the pocket. I would compare this to the fight or flight response. He would be flight. Hope I am wrong but this is what I see thus far.

[Mothman]

Ponder puts zip on the ball when he needs to but he throws passes with touch too, which is a good thing. A QB doesn't need a Cutler or Favre-like cannon arm to be successful in the NFL.

Regarding the running... I think a lot of fans just see him run and assume the worst. I don't think Ponder's first instinct is flight. I think his first instinct is to make a play and considering the difficulty Vikings receivers often have getting open, sometimes the best way to do that is to move and extend the play. Ponder sometimes leaves the pocket when he doesn't need to but he's shown an increased willingness this season to to "stay home", step up and throw the ball. I've re-watched a lot of the plays this season where he's been criticized for panicking or fleeing the pocket and all too often, it's been because he had nowhere to go with the ball or because the interior was collapsing and he wasn't going to have a pocket to step into... sometimes the criticism is justified. Sometimes it's not. It's easy to play the position from home.

I think we need to recognize and acknowledge the benefits and drawbacks of the two approaches (staying in the pocket and leaving it). When a QB leaves the pocket, he has more options. He can run, throw to a receiver, throw the ball away (without risk of a penalty) and he can dive or run out of bounds to avoid a hit. On the other hand, it can be harder to throw on the move and it tends to reduce options to one side of the field. When in the pocket, the whole field is available but there are drawbacks as well. Throwing the ball away can be more problematic and the probability of being hit, sacked for loss (or worse yet, blindsided), increases.

After just 16 games, Ponder has already demonstrated a lot of the qualities a team needs in their starting QB. He's shown leadership, accuracy (which admittedly slipped a bit last weekend) and good decision-making ability. He's moved the team well, proved he can bring the Vikes from behind and shown he can make throws at all levels of the field. I don't know what people expect from a such a young QB. It almost seems like some want perfection and that just can't be found.

[TheIrishVikingsFan]

Ponder puts zip on the ball when he needs to but he throws passes with touch too, which is a good thing. A QB doesn't need a Cutler or Favre-like cannon arm to be a successful in the NFL.

Regarding the running... I think a lot of fans just see him run and assume the worst. I don't think Ponder's first instinct is flight. I think his first instinct is to make a play and considering the difficulty Vikings receivers often have getting open, sometimes the best way to do that is to move and extend the play. Ponder sometimes leaves the pocket when he doesn't need to but he's shown an increased willingness this season to to "stay home", step up and throw the ball. I've re-watched a lot of the plays this season where he's has been criticized for panicking or fleeing the pocket and all too often, it's been because he had nowhere to go with the ball or because the interior was collapsing and he wasn't going to have a pocket to step into... sometimes the criticism is justified. Sometimes it's not. It's easy to play the position from home.

I think we need to recognize and acknowledge the benefits and drawbacks of the two approaches (staying in the pocket and leaving it). When a QB leaves the pocket, he has more options. He can run, throw to a receiver, throw the ball away (without risk of a penalty) and he can dive or run out of bounds to avoid a hit. On the other hand, it can be harder to throw on the move and it tends to reduce options to one side of the field. When in the pocket, the whole field is available but there are drawbacks as well. Throwing the ball away can be more problematic and the probability of being hit, sacked for loss (or worse yet, blindsided), increases.

After just 16 games, Ponder has already demonstrated a lot of the qualities a team needs in their starting QB. He's shown leadership, accuracy (which admittedly slipped a bit last weekend) and good decision-making ability. He's moved the team well, proved he can bring the Vikes from behind and shown he can make throws at all levels of the field. I don't know what people expect from a such a young QB. It almost seems like some want perfection and that just can't be found.

This ^^^^ Great post

[purplehaze]

Ponder puts zip on the ball when he needs to but he throws passes with touch too, which is a good thing. A QB doesn't need a Cutler or Favre-like cannon arm to be successful in the NFL.

Regarding the running... I think a lot of fans just see him run and assume the worst. I don't think Ponder's first instinct is flight. I think his first instinct is to make a play and considering the difficulty Vikings receivers often have getting open, sometimes the best way to do that is to move and extend the play. Ponder sometimes leaves the pocket when he doesn't need to but he's shown an increased willingness this season to to "stay home", step up and throw the ball. I've re-watched a lot of the plays this season where he's been criticized for panicking or fleeing the pocket and all too often, it's been because he had nowhere to go with the ball or because the interior was collapsing and he wasn't going to have a pocket to step into... sometimes the criticism is justified. Sometimes it's not. It's easy to play the position from home.

I think we need to recognize and acknowledge the benefits and drawbacks of the two approaches (staying in the pocket and leaving it). When a QB leaves the pocket, he has more options. He can run, throw to a receiver, throw the ball away (without risk of a penalty) and he can dive or run out of bounds to avoid a hit. On the other hand, it can be harder to throw on the move and it tends to reduce options to one side of the field. When in the pocket, the whole field is available but there are drawbacks as well. Throwing the ball away can be more problematic and the probability of being hit, sacked for loss (or worse yet, blindsided), increases.

After just 16 games, Ponder has already demonstrated a lot of the qualities a team needs in their starting QB. He's shown leadership, accuracy (which admittedly slipped a bit last weekend) and good decision-making ability. He's moved the team well, proved he can bring the Vikes from behind and shown he can make throws at all levels of the field. I don't know what people expect from a such a young QB. It almost seems like some want perfection and that just can't be found.

I like your optimism Jim. Hope your right.

[Demi]

Ponder puts zip on the ball when he needs to but he throws passes with touch too, which is a good thing.

Maybe, if he figures out at some point when to put zip on it, and when not to. He's got guys wide open he lobs a little floater too that costs the team yards. He floats the ball out on bubble screens (not just those passes to the flat to lead Harvin). He rifles balls that he could easily complete and make it easier on the receiver not to.

After just 16 games, Ponder has already demonstrated a lot of the qualities a team needs in their starting QB. He's shown leadership, accuracy (which admittedly slipped a bit last weekend) and good decision-making ability. He's moved the team well, proved he can bring the Vikes from behind and shown he can make throws at all levels of the field. I don't know what people expect from a such a young QB. It almost seems like some want perfection and that just can't be found.

With zero consistency week to week, quarter to quarter, or game to game. Nobody expects perfection, but you can't go from one extreme to the other as often as he does. He'll look like he shouldn't be in the league in one half, and like a pro bowler the other. For every good attribute he shows, he shows a negative one. And as far as "all levels of the field"? Are we still one of, if not the, worst teams for 10+ (or is it 15+?) yard passes? Even teams like the Jaguars managed to do better at the time the stat was posted here. There are other teams with receiver situations just as bad as ours that aren't as limited as we are.

If he was from a small school, or even a rookie there'd be more slack. He isn't. He was from a larger program, a well coached polished quarterback who was supposed to be NFL ready. He's over a third of the way into his second season, and he's still making terrible decisions someone with his supposed skill set shouldn't be making. And his "play-makering" usually involves a 0 yard pass to Harvin...or shows up at a point when his non-play-makering has left us in a hole because of the rest of the game.

[Cliff]

With zero consistency week to week, quarter to quarter, or game to game. Nobody expects perfection, but you can't go from one extreme to the other as often as he does. He'll look like he shouldn't be in the league in one half, and like a pro bowler the other. For every good attribute he shows, he shows a negative one. And as far as "all levels of the field"? Are we still one of, if not the, worst teams for 10+ (or is it 15+?) yard passes? Even teams like the Jaguars managed to do better at the time the stat was posted here. There are other teams with receiver situations just as bad as ours that aren't as limited as we are.

If he was from a small school, or even a rookie there'd be more slack. He isn't. He was from a larger program, a well coached polished quarterback who was supposed to be NFL ready. He's over a third of the way into his second season, and he's still making terrible decisions someone with his supposed skill set shouldn't be making. And his "play-makering" usually involves a 0 yard pass to Harvin...or shows up at a point when his non-play-makering has left us in a hole because of the rest of the game.

I've been in a position to watch every game but one and I have to say I'm just not sure what you're talking about with the exception of the low percentage of long passing plays.

Sure, he's had some bad plays but saying that 50% of the time he's terrible just doesn't hold up to the eye test nor does it hold up to the statistical evidence.

He looks terrible half the time yet his QB rating is top 10 in the NFL (92.4). He consistantly has trouble throwing the ball at the right speed at the right time yet is top 2 in completion percentage at 68.6 percent.

Ponder has plenty of things to work on ... but he's making plenty of progress.

[Mothman]

With zero consistency week to week, quarter to quarter, or game to game. Nobody expects perfection, but you can't go from one extreme to the other as often as he does.

These extremes you're talking about aren't showing up in his stats or his production and frankly, I don't see them in the games either. Sure, there are plays here where he makes a bad decision or a bad throw but I haven't seen a half this year where he looked like "he shouldn't be in the league". He doesn't perform at a perfectly consistent level quarter after quarter, week after week but I defy you to find a QB in the league who does. Even the best throw INTs that are returned for TDs, miss open receivers, etc. You can say you aren't expecting perfection but the nitpicking suggests otherwise. Ponder looks exactly like what he is: a developing QB. The key is that he's a developing QB who is showing he has a lot of what it takes to be a very good QB. That doesn't means he's there yet, just that he looks like he's on his way (and that's one of several reasons only two teams in the conference have a better W/L record than the Vikes right now... and one of those has played one less game).

And as far as "all levels of the field"? Are we still one of, if not the, worst teams for 10+ (or is it 15+?) yard passes?

I don't know but I said he's shown he can make throws at all levels of the field, not that he's doing it all the time. I was writing about his demonstrated skill set, not about the percentage of passes he's thrown down the field this season.

[Mothman]

i've been in a position to watch every game but one and I have to say I'm just not sure what you're talking about with the exception of the low percentage of long passing plays.

Sure, he's had some bad plays but saying that 50% of the time he's terrible just doesn't hold up to the eye test nor does it hold up to the statistical evidence.

Of course it doesn't because it's hyperbole.

[smoothoperator]

I see QB's make worse decisions/throws all the time (dalton, rivers, romo to name a few). Not having Simpson clearly hurts our ability to stretch the field and hopefully that will come this week, assuming he will play. There is no way he has displayed play that would warrant him to be out of the league, many other teams would gladly take him. I do not know why we would not throw the screen passes to harvin because they are extremely effective.

Ponder has made plenty of solid mid-range throws, granted not all of them have been, but you cant blame ponder when he throws a perfect ball on third down and the receiver drops it, which happened more than several times last game. He has shown the ability to lead us when we are down, which is key. Once the offense gets balanced out a little more and we learn to go for the kill every time we are in the red zone, we could be real dangerous. This team is still in a rebuilding phase and I am glad ponder is our guy.

[Just Me]

I think one of the most amusing criticisms of Ponder is his alleged inability to be able to pass beyond 10 yards (or whatever ridiculous stipulation we are making it). As far as I'm concerned, he can 4 yard pass us all the way to the end zone as long as we score on the drive. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson's line from a Few Good Men "I [Ponder speaking] have a problem with those who benefit from the scores that I provide and then question the manner in which I provide it." There are areas that Ponder most certainly needs to work on his game. He has shown every indication that he is improving and continuing to work on those areas where he needs to grow. He has thrown the ball past 10 yards when he needed to and has brought us back to win games that by all rights shoul have been losses.

http://arodrive.com/2012/10/11/nfl-top- ... s-2012-13/ has an estimation of the top 25 QBs in the game. Ponder is 17 (just about average). RG3 is one spot above him at 16. I won't vouch for the accuracy of the assessnent, but it seems clear that Ponder is not the "cellar dweller" in terms of QB ability that some are suggesting...

[Captain]

Maybe it was just me but in the Redskins game I kept getting the feeling that he had less time than in past games to pass. It seemed like the defense was on him pretty fast. Was it just me or anyone else?

[Arma]

Maybe it was just me but in the Redskins game I kept getting the feeling that he had less time than in past games to pass. It seemed like the defense was on him pretty fast. Was it just me or anyone else?

I saw that too, I also saw a lot of personel changing on the o-line with schwartz in there in place of Fusco. Add in the constant defensive scheme changing it could of just been an off day.

[S197]

I saw that too, I also saw a lot of personel changing on the o-line with schwartz in there in place of Fusco. Add in the constant defensive scheme changing it could of just been an off day.

Schwartz was in for Johnson. And I believe it was for the 1st quarter only. Johnson finished the game.

[radar55]

I think what I disliked most about Ponders play was him letting RG3 run wild on the defense.

Thats true, they probably should have used Ponder as the spy on RGIII but my biggest issue with Ponder was how badly he played in the secondary......way to soft over the middle. He really needs to tighten that up.

[Mothman]

Schwartz was in for Johnson. And I believe it was for the 1st quarter only. Johnson finished the game.

Are you sure? Pelissero wrote today that Schwartz was in for Fusco. Maybe he played some snaps at both guard positions?