The Teddy Bridgewater Thread

[Mothman]

Here's the thing with QB's. You don't need a 4000 yard 35 TD QB year in and year out to win the Super Bowl. You need a guy who will get you 3500 yards and 20-25 TDs, an no more than 15 interception a year to be successful in the NFL. Along with that, you need a defense that isn't giving up a ton of points. Only fans think you need to throw 4500 yards and 40 TD's a year to win. Coaches don't, at least some coaches don't. Now, having a guy that does throw 4000 yards and 30-35 TD's a year makes it bit easier to win in the regular season but that's about it. It will help you get to the playoffs but it won't necessarily help you win in the playoffs.

It's always helpful to be able to score points. that's as true in the playoffs as it is in the regular season.

I understand what you're saying but is anybody here actually suggesting the Vikings need a QB who throws for 30+ TDs and 4000+ yards a year to win it all? Bridgewater is still pretty far off that minimum requirement (3500 yards, 20-25 TDs, and no more than 15 interceptions) you mentioned above. It took a 4 TD game against the Bears to even get him within 6 TDs of that minimum this season. He threw just 10 in the other 15 games in which he played.

[Mothman]

Maybe he's thinking of Rich Gannon?

I was thinking the same thing but Gannon and the Raiders lost to Brad Johnson and the Bucs in the only Super Bowl either of those QBs played in.

[TSonn]

Bridgewater's a "win guy" with a 17-11 record in no small part because of the team surrounding him, especially the defense. Drop him on the Titans or Browns roster over the same period of time and it's very unlikely he'd still have a winning record.

Well, there's no way to know how he'd fare on the Titans or the Browns so it is unfair to claim that it is "very unlikely" he'd have a winning record. Here's the thing, I know that his 17-11 record as a starter is a team stat. But if a person is going to post Teddy's weakest passing stats of the year without any context or critical thinking as to how he got those stats, then he/she must also take his W/L record as a starter at face value as well. Selectively using context and reason suggests a "hater" more than anything else, IMO.

In reality, Teddy is somewhere in between his worst game stats and his positive W/L record.

[Mothman]

Well, there's no way to know how he'd fare on the Titans or the Browns so it is unfair to claim that it is "very unlikely" he'd have a winning record. Here's the thing, I know that his 17-11 record as a starter is a team stat. But if a person is going to post Teddy's weakest passing stats of the year without any context or critical thinking as to how he got those stats, then he/she must also take his W/L record as a starter at face value as well. Selectively using context and reason suggests a "hater" more than anything else, IMO.

In reality, Teddy is somewhere in between his worst game stats and his positive W/L record.

I think that's a good way to state it.

My point was simply that pointing to his winning record without context reflects a lack of critical thinking too because, as you said, that's a team stat. Bridgewater is a "win guy" because he's on a team capable of winning. My comment about the Titans and Browns was admittedly speculative but it was simply meant to underline that point. Without the talent around him, Bridgewater could just as easily be a "loss guy".

[mansquatch]

I still think this thought process is way too oversimplified. Yes we need points, Duh! Nobody has ever won a game with a score of zero. But how many points are needed? Well duh, more than the other guy. How many is that? Well it depends...

Depends on what?

I think we've been looking at the regular season and comparing stat lines and trends and then comparing TB to other QBs and saying stuff like "well TB doesn't have 30 TD) or isn't on pace. Whatever. Then we saw him have 2 big games and suddenly his TD number looked better but not great. Do 2 games really tell the story?

Another angle: As our defense improves the "more than the other guy" gets smaller. It is my opinion that this increases the value of not making bad plays since that reinforces the defensive performance. Look no further than the game last Sunday. If not for the Patterson Fumble and the southpaw INT, GB was completely out of that game, our defense owned them. Now obviously we need them to produce more than 13 points and we should not rely on the defense/ST to secure wins. But again, how many more? I felt those negative plays were far more consequential, but then again there really were not any positives to balance against them. (that is bad)

In the playoffs I think the value of the negative goes even higher as we are playing better and better teams. Also on offense I think it becomes less about how many TDs you had in the regular season and more about how plays you can make against a stiff opponent. Negative plays cause you to need more positive plays to offset. Good defense means you need fewer positive plays to win. Look at what has happened to GB since 2010 if you need an example. Greatest QB with best stat lines ever. Woeful playoff performances against top defenses. In short: They couldn't make plays when they needed them the most. As an aside, IMO this is what separates Brady from Rogers and Manning. Brady can and does makes plays in the playoffs when it counts the most.

This isn't an endorsement of TB by any stretch. Given his record it seems even less likely that he'll make the plays needed vs others. Still, if he can give us some (not none!) positives not undermine his defense, then maybe it will be enough. Maybe...

[chicagopurple]

bottom line...he just hasnt been very impressive, there are many other QBs doing a better job with similair challenges. He needs to be better. There is no arguing that.

[mosscarter]

tsonn i gave you straight passing statistics from 8 games "not video game statistics." and for that matter, i don't need any type of statistics to tell me bridgewater is no good. all one needs to do is watch him. 14 passing touchdowns in 16 games stands alone and totally speaks for itself. i'm not even sure fox news could spin that into a franchise qb, or even a qb that has shown progression according to any standards. someone mentioned turner is maybe taking the same route with aikman as he did with bridgewater and i nearly spit my coffee on my laptop. exactly what route would that be because so far it looks like a dead end street. citing the fact that we on 6 out of those 8 games is pointless. as someone said, put teddy on the browns, titans, or raiders (or many other sub par teams) and then see if his winning record would hold up. the sad truth is that aside from him; we are a really good team. people keep making excuses for him. it's the o-line, it's the receivers, it's norv. my favorite one of all though is that it is peterson's fault. any qb in the nfl would die to have the best back of this generation in the backfield, but it is his fault teddy can't develop even a mild semblance of a downfield passing game. no, it's the fact that he can't hit a wide open mcckinnon on a throw a division II qb could make (overthrows are the only consistent thing he does). we just won a division title and our qb didn't do a SINGLE thing to contribute to that victory. in fact, he's done that multiple times this season. this team wins in spite of him. who knows, maybe he'll come out and throw for 300 yds and 2 td's sunday, but it won't matter because he'll follow it up with a 100 yd performance next week. his track record speaks for itself.

[autobon7]

tsonn i gave you straight passing statistics from 8 games "not video game statistics." and for that matter, i don't need any type of statistics to tell me bridgewater is no good. all one needs to do is watch him. 14 passing touchdowns in 16 games stands alone and totally speaks for itself. i'm not even sure fox news could spin that into a franchise qb, or even a qb that has shown progression according to many. you said turner is maybe taking the same route with aikman with bridgewater and i nearly spit my coffee on my laptop. exactly what route would that be because so far it looks like a dead end street. citing the fact that we on 6 out of those 8 games is pointless. as someone said, put teddy on the browns or raiders and then see what his stats and winning record would be. the sad truth is that aside from him; we are a really good team. people keep making excuses for him. it's the o-line, it's the receivers, it's norv. no, it's the fact that he can't hit a wide open mcckinnon on a throw a division II qb could make (overthrows are the only consistent thing he does).

I don't know if I'm ready to call for a change at QB. I see some of you are more than ready but I'm thinking the blame falls more on Norv and a leaky OL. Understand this......I do not think he will become a Brady/Manning type as I think he is closer to an Alex Smith at his best kinda guy. Hard to eval with Uncle Norv at the helm......just can't stand that guy. Can see why all the SD fans hated him. I distinctly remember many posts (on Vikings.com) from SD fans saying what to expect from Norv......and most were spot on.

[mondry]

So my man reignman has his film analysis up over on funkytown's board again, lots of nice stills and gifs and things to look at if you're interested go check it out!

http://vikingsjournal.com/topic/2441-ar ... o-edition/

Couple of side line scrambles are shown since we were talking about him finding receivers instead of just throwing it away, on one everyones blanketed, the other he probably could have made a throw to rudolph though running at full speed from the rush probably isn't that easy.

For what it's worth I'm Mondroid over there so expect those posts to sound a bit similar haha.

[vikeinmontana]

as with many discussions like this the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. teddy has been far from great this year, no doubt about it. my guess is few if any teams size us up and figure they need to shut down teddy to win. but he may not be as awful as some are suggesting either. fans have so little patience in regards to sports it's funny. Go to the bucs board; they're having the same conversation about Winston. and mariotta on the titans board. and carr on the raiders board...

teddy is not blowing me away yet, but i'm not as convinces as a few here that there is no way he can be good. I guess i'm not a qb whisperer and can watch only 20 games or so and no for sure if a player is good or not. however, here's what I do know. teddy is the starting qb for my beloved vikes. they surpassed my expectations this year and are hosting a playoff game. I have seen enough flashes of good play from him to assume it's not impossible for him to play that way in a big game. I have heard people who know way more about football than myself such as gruden, collinsworth, aikman, etc. say how impressed they are with teddy and that he has potential to be a good qb. that gives me hope.

let's face it, we all want a brady, manning, Rodgers, brees, roethisberger, etc. that would be great. but there is a reason those guys are elite. because they are a rare talent. for the rest of us poor teams, we need to do the best we can with who we have available. and i'd say in comparison to other teams who'd love to be in our position, we're doing pretty well. teddy is no brady, but he's who we have and with the team we have he's good enough to win this game.

[John_Viveiros]

I was thinking the same thing but Gannon and the Raiders lost to Brad Johnson and the Bucs in the only Super Bowl either of those QBs played in.

Yeah. I was thinking Gannon won one. He was MVP in 2002.

[Raptorman]

tsonn i gave you straight passing statistics from 8 games "not video game statistics." and for that matter, i don't need any type of statistics to tell me bridgewater is no good. all one needs to do is watch him. 14 passing touchdowns in 16 games stands alone and totally speaks for itself. i'm not even sure fox news could spin that into a franchise qb, or even a qb that has shown progression according to any standards. someone mentioned turner is maybe taking the same route with aikman as he did with bridgewater and i nearly spit my coffee on my laptop. exactly what route would that be because so far it looks like a dead end street. citing the fact that we on 6 out of those 8 games is pointless. as someone said, put teddy on the browns, titans, or raiders (or many other sub par teams) and then see if his winning record would hold up. the sad truth is that aside from him; we are a really good team. people keep making excuses for him. it's the o-line, it's the receivers, it's norv. my favorite one of all though is that it is peterson's fault. any qb in the nfl would die to have the best back of this generation in the backfield, but it is his fault teddy can't develop even a mild semblance of a downfield passing game. no, it's the fact that he can't hit a wide open mcckinnon on a throw a division II qb could make (overthrows are the only consistent thing he does). we just won a division title and our qb didn't do a SINGLE thing to contribute to that victory. in fact, he's done that multiple times this season. this team wins in spite of him. who knows, maybe he'll come out and throw for 300 yds and 2 td's sunday, but it won't matter because he'll follow it up with a 100 yd performance next week. his track record speaks for itself.

What I don't get is this. You say "i don't need any type of statistics to tell me bridgewater is no good." And then in the very next sentence complain about the number of TD's he as thrown. Fact is, Teddy isn't on the Browns or Titans or any other team. Put Brady on the Brown and Titans and I doubt he would win with what they have right now. Hell, Brady is having a tough time in New England right now.

[mansquatch]

as with many discussions like this the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. teddy has been far from great this year, no doubt about it. my guess is few if any teams size us up and figure they need to shut down teddy to win. but he may not be as awful as some are suggesting either. fans have so little patience in regards to sports it's funny. Go to the bucs board; they're having the same conversation about Winston. and mariotta on the titans board. and carr on the raiders board...

teddy is not blowing me away yet, but i'm not as convinces as a few here that there is no way he can be good. I guess i'm not a qb whisperer and can watch only 20 games or so and no for sure if a player is good or not. however, here's what I do know. teddy is the starting qb for my beloved vikes. they surpassed my expectations this year and are hosting a playoff game. I have seen enough flashes of good play from him to assume it's not impossible for him to play that way in a big game. I have heard people who know way more about football than myself such as gruden, collinsworth, aikman, etc. say how impressed they are with teddy and that he has potential to be a good qb. that gives me hope.

let's face it, we all want a brady, manning, Rodgers, brees, roethisberger, etc. that would be great. but there is a reason those guys are elite. because they are a rare talent. for the rest of us poor teams, we need to do the best we can with who we have available. and i'd say in comparison to other teams who'd love to be in our position, we're doing pretty well. teddy is no brady, but he's who we have and with the team we have he's good enough to win this game.

I think a big part of this particular position is a player finding the right balance between risk taking and his own ability. IMO, right now Teddy takes TOO LITTLE risk vs. his ability. (Contrast this with a player like Cutler who typically takes too much risk.) Teddy needs to find a better balance. Of course this is a lot easier said than done, part of it is not just Teddy's confidence in himself, but also confidence in his team. Part of his happy feet is likely quite rational, his OL is horrible this year. In a different situation he might look a split second longer and find an open guy. Likewise, does he have the confidence in his players (and himself) to put the ball in a tight window or into coverage where he things his guy can win. On top of this, Teddy's own skill set is likey growing and thus his confidence can evolve with it, but only if Teddy allows it.

I think the Teddy's biggest asset this year is all the negative plays he didn't make, which is why I made the case above about it. I agree with most others that we need more positive plays, but our defense plus AP are strong enough that we do not need our QB to make AS MANY as a team like NE or GB where the QB "the guy". Very different teams reliant on different things to win.

[chicagopurple]

We are in the Playoffs. It is time for the QB to be a real QB, to LEAD the team. Its the only way we will get anywhere. You never know how long it will be before we are in this position again. You never know how long AP will be playing. If Teddy plays like he has lately it will all be for naught. Time to put on his big boy pants. NOT the brown ones.

[vikeinmontana]

We are in the Playoffs. It is time for the QB to be a real QB, to LEAD the team. Its the only way we will get anywhere. You never know how long it will be before we are in this position again. You never know how long AP will be playing. If Teddy plays like he has lately it will all be for naught. Time to put on his big boy pants. NOT the brown ones.

I can get on board with this. I think we can win without teddy having an amazing game...but I think it could do a lot for teddy personally and more importantly our team this year and going forward if he steps up and plays great.