Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingLord wrote: Only if you assume he would have had the success he's had absent any other factors (like a better work ethic and preparation).

It's convenient circle of reasoning.

VikingLord wrote: At least we agree on that last point, which is odd because it seemed that was key to the argument that Treadwell was the wrong receiver to send deep based on his apparent lack of speed.

Hopefully we can also agree that it wouldn't matter which receiver ran that deep route given the DB was in perfect position to defend it.

That's my point: if we had sent someone with better speed on that route, I think we would have had a better chance for the DB to NOT be in perfect position.

Honestly, I don't think there's much we're going to agree on except,

VikingLord wrote:So if Wright is doing his part off the field to get on the field on Sunday, why is he not on the field?

Exactly. I'm wondering the same thing. There is too much of that on this team.

Texas Vike wrote:That's my point: if we had sent someone with better speed on that route, I think we would have had a better chance for the DB to NOT be in perfect position.

That much is obvious. WRs aren't all the same.

Neither are DBs. Brandon Carr isn't going to cover everyone the same. Even he can sometimes be beaten. Maybe not by a rookie with little experience but possibly by a veteran.

losperros wrote: That much is obvious. WRs aren't all the same.

Neither are DBs. Brandon Carr isn't going to cover everyone the same. Even he can sometimes be beaten. Maybe not by a rookie with little experience but possibly by a veteran.

One would think it was obvious, but apparently it wasn't to everyone

I would like to see the route again. It looked like a straight "go" route or a 9 route. That's remedial. At the next level the route has to have a wiggle in it and Treadwell should read the CB hips. This allows him to break it inside if the CB doesn't bite once he gets the gap nearly closed. If he does turn the hips, the WR breaks it outside. The QB has to read the WR and what he's doing. Obviously this was not. Treadwell was recorded, I believe, on Sport Science as one of the fastest players in the initial 10 yards. That means tremendous explosion for a big guy. Thus CB will play off of him because they have that information. In college, Treadwell would out muscle the press coverage, when CB was off the LOS, he would take the quick routes a long ways. However, he and Bradford have to be on the same page on all of those routes. I am pretty sure it was a shot at a big play to keep the defense honest with the hopes of Treadwell being able to out jump/out physical Carr. I am pretty sure that he does this in practice or they would not have attempted it !!!
Playing time will solve the majority of these timing plays. Hard to hit a 90 mph fastball in a game if only see 80 in practice.

Also, not intending to beat a dead horse, but Clemmings and Fusco are BRUTAL as pass pro. Omg, it is a serious problem since this offense is no longer 85% AD runs, 10% pass to TE, and 5% pass to WR.

to add another example to this point: even Collingsworth pointed out that of all the Vikings WRs Treadwell was not the fast one, so he was an odd target for the long bomb that we attempted. Carr had him stride for stride. Why even send him on that route when we have speedsters?

Hoping the Cowboys thought the same, and left him in single coverage? Would you keep a safety over the top of Treadwell? He isn't Sprintwell. Can we blame Norv?

I used to say Thielen was better then Wright and guys like PhP our draft guru, said I was nuts. Diggs, Thielen and Wright are ok. Wright and CJ are ok. Diggs is great, Kyle would be if he would stopped dropping the ball. Sammy would be good if he had any peripheral vision and all and could outrun a turtle. I just hate these wasted years, we dont even get a first round pick

Demi wrote: Hoping the Cowboys thought the same, and left him in single coverage? Would you keep a safety over the top of Treadwell? He isn't Sprintwell. Can we blame Norv?

Yes. You cant make those dam cal with a statue as qb. One with a weaker arm ever year. Back to the KAO next year.

Mothman wrote: It's convenient circle of reasoning.

The alternative is that the coaches are incompetent and acting against their own interests.

So the choice is the coaches are incompetent and not playing their best players, or the fans are making unwarranted assumptions regarding who the best players are based on incomplete information and blaming the coaches when those players sit and the team doesn't have success.

Which is more reasonable?

Texas Vike wrote: One would think it was obvious, but apparently it wasn't to everyone

You know which of their current receivers would be best to go deep to? Who should it have been in your view, and in your view, is this a matter of fact or opinion?

Arrogant. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

losperros wrote: That much is obvious. WRs aren't all the same.

Neither are DBs. Brandon Carr isn't going to cover everyone the same. Even he can sometimes be beaten. Maybe not by a rookie with little experience but possibly by a veteran.

Well, he wasn't beaten by Patterson earlier in the game either, so who's left that is a better choice to go deep?

IIsweet wrote:I would like to see the route again. It looked like a straight "go" route or a 9 route. That's remedial. At the next level the route has to have a wiggle in it and Treadwell should read the CB hips. This allows him to break it inside if the CB doesn't bite once he gets the gap nearly closed. If he does turn the hips, the WR breaks it outside. The QB has to read the WR and what he's doing. Obviously this was not. Treadwell was recorded, I believe, on Sport Science as one of the fastest players in the initial 10 yards. That means tremendous explosion for a big guy. Thus CB will play off of him because they have that information. In college, Treadwell would out muscle the press coverage, when CB was off the LOS, he would take the quick routes a long ways. However, he and Bradford have to be on the same page on all of those routes. I am pretty sure it was a shot at a big play to keep the defense honest with the hopes of Treadwell being able to out jump/out physical Carr. I am pretty sure that he does this in practice or they would not have attempted it !!!
Playing time will solve the majority of these timing plays. Hard to hit a 90 mph fastball in a game if only see 80 in practice.

Treadwell ran the route that was called and Bradford gave him a chance to make a play from what I saw, and the db simply made a better one. The same thing happened earlier to Patterson against the same db. I think the Vikings felt they could get something deep on Carr and he was ready. It happens.

All this nonsense that it's obvious to the people on this board that there was a better receiver to send on that route (buttressed by the Vikingphile Chris Collingsworth) fails to acknowledge the fact that Carr had the coverage perfect. Nobody catches that pass where it was thrown given that coverage, at least nobody on this Vikings team.