Vikings @ 49ers Game Day Discussion Thread -- Preseason #3

[vikes157]

Yes. It's all about confidence and establishing chemistry at game speed.

Moved the ball at will is a stretch. Read option or not, they were still good without the read option with alex smith.

Don't know what to say about these excuses but yes, Peterson will be a game changer. That still doesn't hide the fact that Ponder has no pocket presence or feel.
At least he's showing he's willing to work on improving his pocket presence I guess is what I was referring to. That should improve over a course of a season.
As you should know, this is Josh's first time in the slot. That mentioned, he's doing a good job and again, should improve over the course of a season.

You'll have to look a little harder then. maybe a couple michael jenkins highlight tapes should help with that.
I agree. I really believe Peterson makes that much of a difference. He'll make this entire team look better. He's that good. Will it be enough?

We will have our growing pains, I believe we have a well timed bye given that we will be able to take a step back and refocus after potentially having young guys or guys at new positions experiencing some growing pains. I believe its going to come down to staying healthy and how bad our guys want to win. How much their willing to do to get back into the playoffs, and then do some damage this time. Looks bad now, but we will improve...

[mondry]

Thanks for the clarification.

Those tight formations are a pretty key part of their running game and they use them to create mismatches and open things up for AD so I suspect we'll continue to see them frequently.

Yep it's this. 2TE's, 5 lineman, RB, FB, WR, QB. It's designed so if Peterson can break the first level he has a good chance to go for a score but it's a really hard formation for the O-line and QB to pass out of as almost anyone could be coming on a run or pass blitz and if it doesn't happen to go to Peterson they can just keep going to Ponder. Obviously with only one WR on the field your targets will also be quite limited.

[mosscarter]

if peterson is expected to carry the offense like he did last year there is a good chance he could hurt himself. that was one of the most impressive feats in sports i've ever seen, but lets be realistic here. ponder has not shown any ability as a starter to get the ball down the field passing and the sad part is that every team we face game plans their defensive attack solely around the run.

[John_Viveiros]

I'm not hitting the panic button but the team clearly has work to do if they want get back to the playoffs.

I thought about starting a thread, asking "Who's ready to hit the panic button?". I'm getting close. Although I agree with you that the starting defense did a pretty good job at the start.

[Mothman]

I thought about starting a thread, asking "Who's ready to hit the panic button?". I'm getting close. Although I agree with you that the starting defense did a pretty good job at the start.

They did and remember, it's just plain silly to hit the panic button based on preseason games. Don't fall into that trap, John. The preseason is meaningless. It's a terrible barometer of what to expect from teams in the regular season and that's been demonstrated repeatedly over the years.

[PurpleKoolaid]

They did and remember, it's just plain silly to hit the panic button based on preseason games. Don't fall into that trap, John. The preseason is meaningless. It's a terrible barometer of what to expect from teams in the regular season and that's been demonstrated repeatedly over the years.

Preseason isn't meaningless. The score is, the outcome is. How your team plays and who plays, isn't. 0-4 means nothing, you are right there. But thinking Ponder and the Oline is going to click just because its the regular season is irrational. Ponder is exactly who he was last year, a sub par QB whose only job security is AD. And that's ok with some fans, but it wont be after this season. And its never been with me.

[mondry]

Preseason isn't meaningless. The score is, the outcome is. How your team plays and who plays, isn't. 0-4 means nothing, you are right there. But thinking Ponder and the Oline is going to click just because its the regular season is irrational. Ponder is exactly who he was last year, a sub par QB whose only job security is AD. And that's ok with some fans, but it wont be after this season. And its never been with me.

lol, I wonder what kind of prize you'll win if you're right? Of course you'll have to split it a lot of ways, might only be left with $0.02!

[Reignman]

4. Christian Ponder sure hasn't wowed us this preseason but again he's trying to lead a run first offense without our run first option. He went 17-24 with a 74% completion and 6.8 yards per completion with 2 TD's and essentially no turnovers that were his fault. That is pretty much on par with what he's needed to do for the team to win in the past and shows him executing the offense very well.

6.8 yards per completion? That's not even good if that was his yards per attempt (which was only 5.04 for the game, and only 4.97 for the entire preseason btw). We might as well punt on 3rd n long. Speaking of 3rd n long, what was the deal with that 5 yard pass on 3rd n 26? I know not many teams have a play for 3rd n 26, but we were at mid field so why not just air it out in that situation? What's the difference if you have to punt from the 50 or the 45?

Any way, year 3 and we're finally starting to work on keeping Ponder in the pocket? Oh and did you see how comfortable he looked with his new assignment? I guess by year 5 we'll get to the foot work? Yep, better start calling him a 5 year project. I can see the new excuse in action already, hey we just started asking him to stay in the pocket so we gotta give him more time to adjust.

But I'm glad we wasted a 1st round pick and 1st round money just to bring in a guy to hand the ball to #28. Because you can't just grab any bargain backup in the league, or draft someone in the later rounds to do that. Nope the Vikings gotta spend 3-5 years developing a 1st rounder to do what anyone could do.

And I know preseason stats don't mean much, but here's how Ponder ranks out of the 90 QB's who have attempted at least 18 passes thus far. If you don't see any concern in these meaningless numbers then congratulations, you're officially in denial.

35th (23) completions
37th (37) attempts
36th (62.2%) completion percent
62nd (184) yards
23rd (5.4%) TD percent
78th (5.4%) INT percent
79th (4.97) yards per pass
63rd (70.1) rating

But the stat that frustrates me the most is how Manning (Peyton 54 and Eli 42), Stafford (49), Luck (44), Brady (44), Ryan (43), Schaub (42), Flacco (42), and Newton (42) have all attempted more passes than Ponder in preseason. Established guys who probably don't need the work took more reps than our inept passer. Gives me so much confidence in Frazier. Was it really more important to see what Vandenberg could do vs 4th stringers than giving Ponder more time to get in sync with the starters and new targets?

[Reignman]

lol, I wonder what kind of prize you'll win if you're right? Of course you'll have to split it a lot of ways, might only be left with $0.02!

Ummm, the prize is a new, hopefully better QB.

[King James]

It took 3 years for Ponder to finally try to get used to stepping up in the pocket instead of running out of it. This is something he should have been working on his first year. Whoever the QB coach is needs to be fired. I still have a little faith in Ponder, that by some miracle he will perform better once the regular season starts. lol

[Just Me]

But the stat that frustrates me the most is how Manning (Peyton 54 and Eli 42), Stafford (49), Luck (44), Brady (44), Ryan (43), Schaub (42), Flacco (42), and Newton (42) have all attempted more passes than Ponder in preseason. Established guys who probably don't need the work took more reps than our inept passer. Gives me so much confidence in Frazier. Was it really more important to see what Vandenberg could do vs 4th stringers than giving Ponder more time to get in sync with the starters and new targets?

I kind of see your point, but I don't know that another hour or two of practice (i.e. pre-season game) is going to make a huge difference at this point. I'm not trying to be 'snarky' against Ponder, but he obviously has more work to do. He improved in staying in the pocket, but he still is 'dancing' when he gets back there. Judging by the 'stellar' (/sarcasm) protection his OL was giving him, he might have a better chance at developing the good habits (staying in the pocket and planting his feet) in a controlled practice rather than a preseason game with the revolving door that was our OL.

BTW- This is not an 'excuse' for Ponder as I would expect a year 3 QB to kind of have these mechanics down, but it is what it is. The sad part is Cassel looked like Joe Webb (as QB) his last outing, so there will be no 'savior' for us if Ponder struggles. It's more of an 'excuse' (if you want to call it that) for Frazier and why he may have limited snaps in the first place....

[Mothman]

I kind of see your point, but I don't know that another hour or to of practice (i.e. pre-season game) is going to make a huge difference at this point.

I doubt it would and it would mean more minutes for the starting offense, not just Ponder. It's not exactly difficult to figure out why Frazier might not want to do that.

Are we really supposed to be troubled because Cam Newton, Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have each attempted all of 5 more passes than Ponder this preseason (he's attempted 37, 14 in the first two games, and 23 against SF)? Just think about that for a second. It basically means their offenses picked up an extra first down or that their OCs called a few more passing plays when they were in the game than Musgrave did. It's insignificant. It's another excuse to complain.

I'm not trying to be 'snarky' against Ponder, but he obviously has more work to do. He improved in staying in the pocket, but he still is 'dancing' when he gets back there. Judging by the 'stellar' (/sarcasm) protection his OL was giving him, he might have a better chance at developing the good habits (staying in the pocket and planting his feet) in a controlled practice rather than a preseason game with the revolving door that was our OL.

Exactly and since they were facing one of the better defenses and better pass rushing teams in the NFL over the past few seasons, a little "dancing" wasn't surprising and isn't tremendous cause for concern, especially because Ponder completed almost 75% of his passes in the game. He looked uncomfortable on some plays but the 49ers deserve some credit for that and his mechanics were sound on some plays too so again, there's no reason to simply emphasize the downside of his performance (not that you were doing that, Just Me, but as you can see, the usual post-game Ponder panic is in the air).

[The Breeze]

PPP....Postgame Ponder Panic, don't let it happen to someone close to you.

But if it does, have them coat themselves with vasoline and mimic a slug. That will fix them up in no time~

[mondry]

Ummm, the prize is a new, hopefully better QB.

You're right about the confused emote, he's been saying Ponder sucks for years now but we still don't have a new QB. What is taking so long? I thought it was the fans #### and moaning that got things done like how you got childress fired right?

Not that this is related but my lady friend and I have started watching a game of thrones and I gotta say, you guys were born in the wrong time. Back then all you had to do was convince the king to say "off with his head!" and you could get a new guard (o-line), council member (coach), or captain of the guard (QB) in a matter of hours!

Quite frankly I'm really disappointing it takes you guys so long to get things done.

PPP....Postgame Ponder Panic, don't let it happen to someone close to you.

But if it does, have them coat themselves with vasoline and mimic a slug. That will fix them up in no time~

YOU DOWN WITH PPP, YEAH YOU KNOW ME!

[The Breeze]

If it's any consolation, Ponder will be thrown to the Lions in week 1.