Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[BGM]

So I guess God is a bigot because of his views against homosexuality? Unless some of you don't believe in God.

I believe in God and think the biblical support for treating homosexuality as a sin is fairly flimsy, because it is always taken out of historical and social context. Those who use the bible as justification for their attitude about homosexuality tend to apply the bible inconsistently. If homosexuality is appalling to the sight of God, then what of wearing blended fabrics, or working on the Sabbath, or marrying your sister-in-law if your brother dies? And what of divorce? A literal reading of the bible would not allow a woman to divorce a physically abusive husband. Why is homosexuality singled out as being so worthy of damnation? I have difficulty in believing that a God who loves us would hate something born of love.

I am sure there are agnostics and atheists here. Is that a problem?

If I have insulted or denigrated anyone here, I apologize. Admittedly, this is an issue about which I have very strong opinions. With family and friends who are gay, it truly troubles me that another human being would choose to avoid them for that reason.

And the anti-gay mentality that still permeates locker rooms at all levels of football saddens me. It is not ok, and it is not some kind of last bastion of male power. It's a culture of fear and ignorance that has led to incidents of violence toward gay, or allegedly gay, players. That needs to stop. And one way to affect change is to start at the top and let coaches know that language that promotes violence toward gays is unacceptable.

[Purple bruise]

This topic has now not only morped into a political argument and now religion is being brought into it. Can we please get back to Viking talk

[BGM]

Vikings: Kluwe investigator denies promise of confidentiality

I wonder if Halunen felt they might be kept confidential under the whistleblower law, or if he might pursue that. In any case, it does complicate things. Will people change their stories out of a fear of retaliation? Or will fans be convinced the truth has been told if Priefer truly did not say these things?

[Raptorman]

Vikings: Kluwe investigator denies promise of confidentiality

Interesting part of that story is that they have already talked to 10 people. Now we know the NFL is not doing this investigation because if they were we would have leaks from "unnamed" sources.

[NextQuestion]

I believe in God and think the biblical support for treating homosexuality as a sin is fairly flimsy, because it is always taken out of historical and social context. Those who use the bible as justification for their attitude about homosexuality tend to apply the bible inconsistently. If homosexuality is appalling to the sight of God, then what of wearing blended fabrics, or working on the Sabbath, or marrying your sister-in-law if your brother dies? And what of divorce? A literal reading of the bible would not allow a woman to divorce a physically abusive husband. Why is homosexuality singled out as being so worthy of damnation? I have difficulty in believing that a God who loves us would hate something born of love.

I am sure there are agnostics and atheists here. Is that a problem?

If I have insulted or denigrated anyone here, I apologize. Admittedly, this is an issue about which I have very strong opinions. With family and friends who are gay, it truly troubles me that another human being would choose to avoid them for that reason.

And the anti-gay mentality that still permeates locker rooms at all levels of football saddens me. It is not ok, and it is not some kind of last bastion of male power. It's a culture of fear and ignorance that has led to incidents of violence toward gay, or allegedly gay, players. That needs to stop. And one way to affect change is to start at the top and let coaches know that language that promotes violence toward gays is unacceptable.

Well said, BGM. It's time to ignore King James and his Westboro type of views.

To me, it's important that all humans live on this earth with equal right and peace. GLBT couples who have been together forever can't get the same rights as a straight married couple. If X went to the hospital and was dying, it's very possible Y can't even go into the room and make choices for person X.

[thatguy]

I see that.

...that was sort of my point. Made sarcastically, of course. I have much more faith in what I read in school than on here, though. That's for sure. Some foolish nonsense on here lately. My emotional intelligence dropped a few notches. People are cruel! People are going all Priefer on here!

Sarcastic, know-it-all college students are literally the worst.

[MrPurplenGold]

I believe in God and think the biblical support for treating homosexuality as a sin is fairly flimsy, because it is always taken out of historical and social context. Those who use the bible as justification for their attitude about homosexuality tend to apply the bible inconsistently. If homosexuality is appalling to the sight of God, then what of wearing blended fabrics, or working on the Sabbath, or marrying your sister-in-law if your brother dies? And what of divorce? A literal reading of the bible would not allow a woman to divorce a physically abusive husband. Why is homosexuality singled out as being so worthy of damnation? I have difficulty in believing that a God who loves us would hate something born of love.

I am sure there are agnostics and atheists here. Is that a problem?

If I have insulted or denigrated anyone here, I apologize. Admittedly, this is an issue about which I have very strong opinions. With family and friends who are gay, it truly troubles me that another human being would choose to avoid them for that reason.

And the anti-gay mentality that still permeates locker rooms at all levels of football saddens me. It is not ok, and it is not some kind of last bastion of male power. It's a culture of fear and ignorance that has led to incidents of violence toward gay, or allegedly gay, players. That needs to stop. And one way to affect change is to start at the top and let coaches know that language that promotes violence toward gays is unacceptable.

Without getting too religious, your thoughts on sin from an old testament perspective is not consistent with the new testament way of life. Christ came and died so that we would not be under the "scope" of the old testament and free us from those type of sins. So those particular sins that you describe are inconsistent with the new testament and the thought that Christ shed his blood to free us of those sins. Now with that said, the New Testament speaks of Sexual Immoralities and the need to forsake them because our bodies are God's Temple and sins against our bodies are violations of his temple. Now that doesn't discriminate of heterosexual indecency vs homosexual indecency. So under the new testament, because biblically marriage is between a man and a woman, homosexuals will always live in sin for Sexual indecenies. Now of course that does not mean they should be judged because the bible also says you will be judged as you judge others.

[King James]

I believe in God and think the biblical support for treating homosexuality as a sin is fairly flimsy, because it is always taken out of historical and social context. Those who use the bible as justification for their attitude about homosexuality tend to apply the bible inconsistently. If homosexuality is appalling to the sight of God, then what of wearing blended fabrics, or working on the Sabbath, or marrying your sister-in-law if your brother dies? And what of divorce? A literal reading of the bible would not allow a woman to divorce a physically abusive husband. Why is homosexuality singled out as being so worthy of damnation? I have difficulty in believing that a God who loves us would hate something born of love.

I am sure there are agnostics and atheists here. Is that a problem?

First of all, the bible does say that no sin is greater than the other. Yes, some people do make homosexuality to be the biggest sin of them all, but that is wrong. However, I think if you say you're a child of God and you sin knowing before hand it is wrong, then I think that is a problem. That is not just with homosexuality, that's with anything. Though the bible says we still sin regardless, sinning willingly is what God doesn't like. Some people do things knowing it isn't right, and don't even repent. Some people believe that they can do what they do and God will just automatically forgive them. He does give people the opportunity to change their lifestyle. At the end, that will be for him to judge.

As for marriage, it's tough but I understand the bible stance on it. That's like if I fall in love with a prostitute and marry her. Knowing that she has a bad track record I still marry her anyway. She continues to mess around and I get mad and file for a divorce. That would be my fault that I made that commitment and if I made that bed, I should very well sleep in it. Marriage is a big thing, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you and your partner know without a doubt that you want to be with each other forever. A lot of people rush into marriage in this generation though, they barely know each other enough to get married. So when they get hit, beat, they want out. Any man who hits his wife probably has have done it before to previous women.

That being said, some of those laws do not apply. The new testament explains that you can work on the Sabbath. I mean you have to eat, have a roof over your head, and etc. It does allow divorce I think if your partner is cheating. I'm going to look and see what it says about abuse. You have to keep in mind that when the old testament was written in the bible, the bible was written as the events were happening. The people back then didn't have a full version of the bible to look back on like we do today. We do, however. Some people know the bible but still choose to go against it.

What im getting at is that, I don't think anyone is wrong to not support homosexuality. That does not mean it is ok to harass them or treat them bad. But if you don't support it, I don't think that makes you a bigot.

[Mothman]

Please, if people want to discuss the sociological and religious implications of homosexuality can you at least create a thread in the Vikings Bar and do it there? This forum is for Vikings talk and this thread is about a particular situation involving the Vikings and Chris Kluwe. It's not about sin, gay marriage, homosexuality or politics. The conversation has wandered far afield from the topic at hand and even further from football and the Vikings.

[Funkytown]

Sarcastic, know-it-all college students are literally the worst.

Problem, guy? Or are you just upset that someone else can use sarcasm, too?

Maybe that's why I like Chris. I like his sarcasm and intelligence. That's my jam. Sorry you don't appreciate it. That hurts my heart. Really. I'm crushed.

I think, sometimes, we side with who we can identify with or have some sort of "relationship" with. For me, that's Kluwe. That might blow up in my face, after we find out more details, as Moth suggested we wait patiently for, but for now I believe Kluwe much more than I do Priefer. I think we're all guilty of believing things at times just based on who said them. I can admit to that, but we'll see how this all shakes out.

[King James]

I didn't want to bring religion into it. But when i'm getting called a bigot because of my views, that's where my beliefs get disrespected. I have to say something about it. If we can get on topic of Chris Kluwe, we can do that. But if I get disrespected because I don't believe in gay pride, then I have to bring God into it.

[CalVike]

I don't think this has been posted, my apologies if it has. Here's an interview Tom Pelissero from USA Today conducted and posted on Friday night, Jan. 10 with the investigator Christopher Madel.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... e/4427815/

A couple interesting quotes from the interview:

"I am literally investigating every fact in Kluwe's Deadspin article in order to determine the veracity of what he said," Madel said, referring to the Jan. 2 post in which Kluwe alleged he was cut because of his public stance in favor of same-sex marriage.

"It's much broader right now than simply looking at a couple meetings and determining whether or not Mr. Kluwe's statements regarding those allegedly homophobic statements" are true.

Madel said he already has interviewed 10 witnesses, who have not been promised anonymity or any other preconditions – contrary to a St. Paul Pioneer Press on Friday that quoted Kluwe's attorney, Clayton Halunen.

Kluwe originally was scheduled to be interviewed Saturday before rescheduling for Jan. 24. According to Madel, the plan is to wrap up the rest of the initial round of interviews this coming week, then follow up as necessary after Kluwe speaks.

"My charge right now is just to follow the facts wherever they go," Madel said. "The only promise that I have made to these people is that the Vikings will act swiftly and immediately with respect to any retaliation against any witness in connection with this investigation."

Separately, Kluwe's attorney confirmed there is no agreement on anonymity of witnesses.

In an email Saturday morning to USA TODAY Sports, Halunen clarified there is no agreement for witness confidentiality in place but he hopes such an agreement will be forthcoming.

Madel said there is no timetable for completing the investigation and no decision has been made on whether the results will be made public. He and Magnuson will turn over the findings to the Vikings, who likely will turn them over to the NFL.

More at the link

[thatguy]

Problem, guy? Or are you just upset that someone else can use sarcasm, too?

Maybe that's why I like Chris. I like his sarcasm and intelligence. That's my jam. Sorry you don't appreciate it. That hurts my heart. Really. I'm crushed.

I think, sometimes, we side with who we can identify with or have some sort of "relationship" with. For me, that's Kluwe. That might blow up in my face, after we find out more details, as Moth suggested we wait patiently for, but for now I believe Kluwe much more than I do Priefer. I think we're all guilty of believing things at times just based on who said them. I can admit to that, but we'll see how this all shakes out.

Just because I don't side w/ Kluwe doesn't mean I side with Priefer. All I'm saying is that you've been a complete tool this entire thread with your use of straw man arguments and sarcastic statements. I just graduated from college, and I know exactly what kind of person talks the way you do, and they weren't liked in school anymore than they're liked outside of it. Basically all I'm saying is that you need to grow up and stop being a sarcastic, combative know-it-all just because you can. If you REALLY have so much disdain for so many people on this message board, there's one simple solution to all of that.

[Funkytown]

Just because I don't side w/ Kluwe doesn't mean I side with Priefer. All I'm saying is that you've been a complete tool this entire thread with your use of straw man arguments and sarcastic statements. I just graduated from college, and I know exactly what kind of person talks the way you do, and they weren't liked in school anymore than they're liked outside of it. Basically all I'm saying is that you need to grow up and stop being a sarcastic, combative know-it-all just because you can. If you REALLY have so much disdain for so many people on this message board, there's one simple solution to all of that.

I'm a tool now, huh? Did you come up with that all by yourself?

And now no one likes me? This is classic.

You are so wrong about so much here, but really, I have no desire to get into each part of it. Do you want to talk about the Vikings, Kluwe, Priefer or me? Quite frankly, I don't much care about your feelings towards me--and I guess that others don't either. I have zero clue on why you (and only you) took a few general comments so personally. It's just getting weird for me at this point. You don't like me. Good for you. We can discuss your feelings in private messaging if you'd like, but eh, I'd rather not.

Also, I don't have problems with or dislike "so many" people on here. I like this message board just fine. Sorry you took some general comments about general attitudes so personally. Sorry you're a victim of my sarcastic, know-it-all attitude. Many people happen to enjoy it. Sorry you don't. I'll do my best to be more sensitive to your feelings from now on. Hug it out?

[thatguy]

I'm a tool now, huh? Did you come up with that all by yourself?

And now no one likes me? This is classic.

You are so wrong about so much here, but really, I have no desire to get into each part of it. Do you want to talk about the Vikings, Kluwe, Priefer or me? Quite frankly, I don't much care about your feelings towards me--and I guess that others don't either. I have zero clue on why you (and only you) took a few general comments so personally. It's just getting weird for me at this point. You don't like me. Good for you. We can discuss your feelings in private messaging if you'd like, but eh, I'd rather not.

Also, I don't have problems with or dislike "so many" people on here. I like this message board just fine. Sorry you took some general comments about general attitudes so personally. Sorry you're a victim of my sarcastic, know-it-all attitude. Many people happen to enjoy it. Sorry you don't. I'll do my best to be more sensitive to your feelings from now on. Hug it out?

I'm glad you could apologize for your transgressions, and I think we can get through it. Thanks for admitting your mistakes. Now, let's get back to football.