Vikings Message Board.Com

who has been saying ponder is fine? and what does "fine" mean exactly? like he is good enough and doesn't need to improve? or that we're all happy with him just how he is now? i'm missing these comments.

people need to remember that just because some of us didn't write off the guy on draft night, don't piss and moan about every single aspect of his game, don't turn every single thread into a ponder-bashing, and aren't declaring this season over after 3 pre-season games....doesn't for one second mean that we love the guy, think he's destined for the superbowl, are totally content with his play and the play of the entire team, or are happy with everything we have seen... I don't know why some people don't get that?

for my personal fandom...ponder is on a real short leash. i'm not content with him by any means and was very frustrated last night. I was also real bummed about the play of our offensive line. and it was very sloppy. I was even more nervous when I saw cassell. he looked terrible. but i'll need a couple real games before I completely give up on any particular player. if that makes me a ponder-lover or a sympathizer than I guess so be it.

vikeinmontana wrote:who has been saying ponder is fine? and what does "fine" mean exactly? like he is good enough and doesn't need to improve? or that we're all happy with him just how he is now? i'm missing these comments.

people need to remember that just because some of us didn't write off the guy on draft night, don't piss and moan about every single aspect of his game, don't turn every single thread into a ponder-bashing, and aren't declaring this season over after 3 pre-season games....doesn't for one second mean that we love the guy, think he's destined for the superbowl, are totally content with his play and the play of the entire team, or are happy with everything we have seen... I don't know why some people don't get that?

for my personal fandom...ponder is on a real short leash. i'm not content with him by any means and was very frustrated last night. I was also real bummed about the play of our offensive line. and it was very sloppy. I was even more nervous when I saw cassell. he looked terrible. but i'll need a couple real games before I completely give up on any particular player. if that makes me a ponder-lover or a sympathizer than I guess so be it.

I think you are pretty much agreeing with most of us.

Crax wrote: I don't need it both ways, tuck or throw, don't run around 1 handed and get it stripped. I'll have to rewatch it, but I recall seeing him one handing it as he was shuffling around as the pressure was coming. You can't fumble it with that field position.

I do believe he was moving his hand back to throw the ball when it was stripped. Yup, just checked the video, Ponder had stepped up into the pocket and was in the throwing motion when the D lineman hit his arm.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:So basically, some fans think Ponder is fine because he did OK against the 49ers 3rd string D, while Kaepernick started out slow and then did GREAT against our starting D. Colt McCoy Looked better then Ponder folks....I means there is Ponder apologists and then theres just plain burying your head in the sand saying, 'its just preseason, its just preseason'.

When is it time to wean Ponder from AD's tit? Its his 3rd year. He isn't a rookie, although he may look like one. Just because Colinsworth said he had better pocket awareness doesn't make him so much better then last year. But I guess at this point we should be happy with anything BoyBlunder does right. I still think a large part of it is coaching. The combination though could make this year Fraizers second 3 win years, if AD goes down (knock on wood).

Is there any point where sticking up for Ponder no matter what becomes foolish? Is admitting that Spielman made a mistake that tough for some of you?

I just see no reason to exaggerate the situation. From your point of view, anything other than complete condemnation of Ponder seems to qualify as 'sticking up for him". Most of us don't view it that way and take a more measured view of things.

I have no illusions about Ponder. I understand that thus far he's been nothing special and at times he's actually been awful. He's had some pretty good games and moments too, just not enough of them. The fans who are really burying their heads in the sand are those like yourself who refuse to see anything but the negative aspects of his performances. Ponder's not incompetent but he hasn't proven he's a long term solution at QB yet either. Since he's going to get his shot this season no matter how much people complain about it, some of us are willing to sit back, see what happens and take a realistic view of his performances.

For what it's worth, I think it's very possible that Spielman made a mistake with Ponder. In fact, if I had to bet on it, I'd bet that Ponder won't be starting for the Vikes in a season or two. I'm just openminded enough to realize it may not play out that way.

vikeinmontana wrote:who has been saying ponder is fine? and what does "fine" mean exactly? like he is good enough and doesn't need to improve? or that we're all happy with him just how he is now? i'm missing these comments.

people need to remember that just because some of us didn't write off the guy on draft night, don't piss and moan about every single aspect of his game, don't turn every single thread into a ponder-bashing, and aren't declaring this season over after 3 pre-season games....doesn't for one second mean that we love the guy, think he's destined for the superbowl, are totally content with his play and the play of the entire team, or are happy with everything we have seen... I don't know why some people don't get that?

They don't want to get it.

Mothman wrote: I just see no reason to exaggerate the situation. From your point of view, anything other than complete condemnation of Ponder seems to qualify as 'sticking up for him". Most of us don't view it that way and take a more measured view of things.

I have no illusions about Ponder. I understand that thus far he's been nothing special and at times he's actually been awful. He's had some pretty good games and moments too, just not enough of them. The fans who are really burying their heads in the sand are those like yourself who refuse to see anything but the negative aspects of his performances. Ponder's not incompetent but he hasn't proven he's a long term solution at QB yet either. Since he's going to get his shot this season no matter how much people complain about it, some of us are willing to sit back, see what happens and take a realistic view of his performances.

For what it's worth, I think it's very possible that Spielman made a mistake with Ponder. In fact, if I had to bet on it, I'd bet that Ponder won't be starting for the Vikes in a season or two. I'm just openminded enough to realize it may not play out that way.

But there is nothing positive, despite some attempts, of Ponders play. He will not see 3rd string D's during the regular season. He isn't going to have AD in the backfield every play (and last year when he did, he still managed to stink the place up). Because he finally stepped up in the pocket, and we didn't see as much of the happy feet, again, with their 2nd and 3rd D on the field, you really see improvement??? Colin improved against our STARTING D. That's what good QBs do. Esp. ones that are picked 12th overall. He doesn't know how to make things happen, how to adapt to anything. As far as Im concerned we should be starting a rookie this year. Cause we are going no where with Ponder and AD can only bring us so far.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:But there is nothing positive, despite some attempts, of Ponders play.

... and that's just what I'm talking about. Your refusal to see any of the positive aspects of Ponder's performances is such an extreme position to take that anything less extreme probably appears apologetic from your point of view... and you take that extreme position after virtually every game. When it comes to Ponder, you've got blinders on.

He will not see 3rd string D's during the regular season. He isn't going to have AD in the backfield every play (and last year when he did, he still managed to stink the place up). Because he finally stepped up in the pocket, and we didn't see as much of the happy feet, again, with their 2nd and 3rd D on the field, you really see improvement???

I didn't say I saw improvement.

When you have to start looking for "positive aspects" of a third year QB's performance, you know that the team is in some serious trouble.

Mothman wrote: I just see no reason to exaggerate the situation. From your point of view, anything other than complete condemnation of Ponder seems to qualify as 'sticking up for him". Most of us don't view it that way and take a more measured view of things.

I have no illusions about Ponder. I understand that thus far he's been nothing special and at times he's actually been awful. He's had some pretty good games and moments too, just not enough of them. The fans who are really burying their heads in the sand are those like yourself who refuse to see anything but the negative aspects of his performances. Ponder's not incompetent but he hasn't proven he's a long term solution at QB yet either. Since he's going to get his shot this season no matter how much people complain about it, some of us are willing to sit back, see what happens and take a realistic view of his performances.

For what it's worth, I think it's very possible that Spielman made a mistake with Ponder. In fact, if I had to bet on it, I'd bet that Ponder won't be starting for the Vikes in a season or two. I'm just openminded enough to realize it may not play out that way.

I have to agree with you. He is not going anywhere in the next few months. So, let's see what happens. I hope he takes that step forward and becomes a decent QB. He does not need to be another Brady or Rodgers for the Vikes to win. He just needs to be in the top 15. I'll be happy with that this year. Each QB is different, I remember in 2011 when Newton was going to be the next big thing, what happened to him? Kaepernick in SF, he has how many games? Let's see what he does this year. Now that people have film on him.

The Breeze wrote:I don't see any reason to be concerned about Carlson's contract any longer. He restructured and as long as he out performs his last season, which if healthy he will, it will balance out. If I remember it right, he's not making much this year. Maybe, I got it wrong....

He restructured signing bonus? The bonus was the contract, the base salary was barely anything. So after he banked that bonus check he wasn't making much. To this day, a laughable signing.

Raptorman wrote:I have to agree with you. He is not going anywhere in the next few months. So, let's see what happens. I hope he takes that step forward and becomes a decent QB. He does not need to be another Brady or Rodgers for the Vikes to win. He just needs to be in the top 15. I'll be happy with that this year. Each QB is different, I remember in 2011 when Newton was going to be the next big thing, what happened to him? Kaepernick in SF, he has how many games? Let's see what he does this year. Now that people have film on him.

I think they said on last night's broadcast that Kaepernick has started in 10 meaningful NFL games (regular season and postseason) so yes, now that teams have more film on him he could take a step back.

PurpleHalo wrote:
He restructured signing bonus? The bonus was the contract, the base salary was barely anything. So after he banked that bonus check he wasn't making much. To this day, a laughable signing.

He got a $25mil signing bonus? Thats the # i saw floated in this thread.
I find that hard to believe.....and I do know he took a pay cut this year. Either way, water under the bridge IMO.

Eli wrote:When you have to start looking for "positive aspects" of a third year QB's performance, you know that the team is in some serious trouble.

And it's even worse when you're repeatedly making excuses for when you can't find them.

Have to love graphics that talk about the worst 20+ yard performance since Everett in 1991. The lowest different between a QB and RB at .05 yards per play. And even the positive one, 7th in red zone efficiency...is countered on the same graphic by 25th overall.

The guy isn't any good, never has been, and never will be. Give him a decade and it won't change. Same thing we had with TJoke. "He's just inconsistent". Yeah, because he's not a good quarterback. But keep blaming everyone else...a good QB could step in here next week and suddenly the blocking looks better, receivers look better. What a joke we're still at the point we were when he was drafted. But he needs 3 years.

The fumble by Ponder was just a good play. He was just cocking to throw....half a step later it would have been an incomplete pass. It was a crap effort by Loadholt....maybe not crap as much as it was a fierce speed rush by the defender.....or it was crap, or both. I'm undecided

As for Ponder in the pocket. I just think it was a really good thing that he stood in there and wasn't hit hard. When he's been hurt is when he flees the pocket. Yeah, he looked nervous and didn't set his feet, a few throws were high, and a couple more, as Cliff pointed out, completely missed, both to GJ. But now he has some experience and tape to look at to build on. He even stepped through the pocket to run a couple of times...

Ponder standing (tapdancing) in the pocket against that defense without AD is a significant deviation from the norm. Whether it leads to a significant improvement or not....I guess we'll see.

The Breeze wrote: He got a $25mil signing bonus? Thats the # i saw floated in this thread.
I find that hard to believe.....and I do know he took a pay cut this year. Either way, water under the bridge IMO.

His restructure was for the 2013 year only. •2013 Restructure: Base salary reduced from $2.9M to $1.5M, Workout Bonus reduced to $50,000 from $100,000. His last 3 years look like this.

Bass Sign Workout Cap hit Dead
2014 3,900,000 1,000,000 100,000 5,000,000 3,000,000
2015 4,900,000 1,000,000 100,000 6,000,000 2,000,000
2016 4,900,000 1,000,000 100,000 6,000,000 1,000,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vi ... n-carlson/