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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:18 am
by CharVike
Raptorman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 8:10 am
CharVike wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 5:20 pm
Gibbs did it with Joe Theismann (XVII), Doug Williams (XXII) and Mark Rypien (XXVI). Gibbs was my example. Flacco also won a Super Bowl. As I stated Gibbs had a huge OL and they controlled the games. Bottom line and the most frustrating thing is we are starting from square one on offense. We have a two headed OC. I've never seen this done before. So just getting that figured out will take what? One game? Two or 16? We will struggle to score. We might all be screaming for JDF to come back and it could happen. Of course with this mess Cousins will look like a shell of what he can do and most will be calling for his head. But the entire O will be out of sync. We are wasting the talent level we have .Now it's a big time ground attack and we don't have the back for that. He can't stay healthy. At least Cousins proved he could take a beating behind a terrible OL and keep on playing.
Theismann is a bum QB? Wow. Never thought a QB with .620 winning percentage would be called a bum. Guess that makes a lot of QB bums.
Favre .624
Brees .589
Marino .612
Rivers .567
Tarkenton .518
One thing most people don't know about the Gibbs teams, his defense gave up on 19.0 ppg during his tenure. And the years they won the Super Bowl, 14 ppg, 17.8 ppg and 14.2 ppg A lot easier to win with a "Bum" QB when you only give up 14 ppg.
Theisman had a grand total of 160 career TDs VS 138 ints with a rating of 77. Couldn't beat out the old George Allen guy Billy Killmer. OK he's great. So Gibbs won with two bums and a great QB. My bad.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:52 am
by VikingsVictorious
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 11:18 am
Raptorman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 8:10 am
Theismann is a bum QB? Wow. Never thought a QB with .620 winning percentage would be called a bum. Guess that makes a lot of QB bums.
Favre .624
Brees .589
Marino .612
Rivers .567
Tarkenton .518
One thing most people don't know about the Gibbs teams, his defense gave up on 19.0 ppg during his tenure. And the years they won the Super Bowl, 14 ppg, 17.8 ppg and 14.2 ppg A lot easier to win with a "Bum" QB when you only give up 14 ppg.
Theisman had a grand total of 160 career TDs VS 138 ints with a rating of 77. Couldn't beat out the old George Allen guy Billy Killmer. OK he's great. So Gibbs won with two bums and a great QB. My bad.
In fairness to Theisman I recall him being considered a pretty good QB during his tenure in the NFL.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:27 pm
by CharVike
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 11:52 am
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 11:18 am
Theisman had a grand total of 160 career TDs VS 138 ints with a rating of 77. Couldn't beat out the old George Allen guy Billy Killmer. OK he's great. So Gibbs won with two bums and a great QB. My bad.
In fairness to Theisman I recall him being considered a pretty good QB during his tenure in the NFL.
Theisman was a walking hype machine. "Theisman for the Heisman". was the chant. He was a great marketer I won't take that away from him. Even LT said he did him a favor by ending his career because he was finished anyway. That also could have been marketing because LT was very upset after the hit. IMO he was never that great but his marketing ability had people thinking he was. It still does.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:14 pm
by Raptorman
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 11:18 am
Raptorman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 8:10 am
Theismann is a bum QB? Wow. Never thought a QB with .620 winning percentage would be called a bum. Guess that makes a lot of QB bums.
Favre .624
Brees .589
Marino .612
Rivers .567
Tarkenton .518
One thing most people don't know about the Gibbs teams, his defense gave up on 19.0 ppg during his tenure. And the years they won the Super Bowl, 14 ppg, 17.8 ppg and 14.2 ppg A lot easier to win with a "Bum" QB when you only give up 14 ppg.
Theisman had a grand total of 160 career TDs VS 138 ints with a rating of 77. Couldn't beat out the old George Allen guy Billy Killmer. OK he's great. So Gibbs won with two bums and a great QB. My bad.
He had a QB rating of 80.5 152 TD's and 138 Interceptions. What Bum Bart Starr was.
Stop comparing QB's of the past to what is being done today. Compare them to their contemporaries. The rules have changed significantly over the years to benefit the QB's. If Starr played by today's rules Brady would look like a backup.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:25 pm
by VikingsVictorious
Raptorman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 1:14 pm
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 11:18 am
Theisman had a grand total of 160 career TDs VS 138 ints with a rating of 77. Couldn't beat out the old George Allen guy Billy Killmer. OK he's great. So Gibbs won with two bums and a great QB. My bad.
He had a QB rating of 80.5 152 TD's and 138 Interceptions. What Bum Bart Starr was.
Stop comparing QB's of the past to what is being done today. Compare them to their contemporaries. The rules have changed significantly over the years to benefit the QB's. If Starr played by today's rules Brady would look like a backup.
Good point.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:19 am
by CharVike
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 4:25 pm
Raptorman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 1:14 pm
He had a QB rating of 80.5 152 TD's and 138 Interceptions. What Bum Bart Starr was.
Stop comparing QB's of the past to what is being done today. Compare them to their contemporaries. The rules have changed significantly over the years to benefit the QB's. If Starr played by today's rules Brady would look like a backup.
Good point.
I wasn't the one who started the comparison. I pointed out the fact that Gibbs won Super Bowls with three bums at QB and he did. Regardless Theisman wasn't as good as some people think. That's why he was a 4th round pick based on his contemporaries also. But your correct comparing guys from different eras is very hard and it wasn't my point. Next you'll point out how great Rypkien was when in fact he wasn't that good. Same with Williams and Theisman. Matter of fact Williams was basically washed up when Gibbs won with him. He had nothing else. Bum is rating to high for that guy at that point. He was finished but won a Super Bowl because the massive OL took the game over. It's not that hard to see.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:35 am
by StumpHunter
Here is the funny thing about looking at Kubiak's past work with QBs. On Jacksonville boards, fans are selling JDF on the basis that Wentz, Foles and Cousins had their best seasons at QB with him as QB coach/OC. He even won a Super Bowl with Foles at QB
So while it is great that Kubiak has had success with QBs in the past, it doesn't tell the whole story.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:18 am
by VikingsVictorious
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 7:19 am
I wasn't the one who started the comparison. I pointed out the fact that Gibbs won Super Bowls with three bums at QB and he did. Regardless Theisman wasn't as good as some people think. That's why he was a 4th round pick based on his contemporaries also. But your correct comparing guys from different eras is very hard and it wasn't my point. Next you'll point out how great Rypkien was when in fact he wasn't that good. Same with Williams and Theisman. Matter of fact Williams was basically washed up when Gibbs won with him. He had nothing else. Bum is rating to high for that guy at that point. He was finished but won a Super Bowl because the massive OL took the game over. It's not that hard to see.
IMO Rypien and Theisman were both good not great QBs. However, the top notch OL may have made both of them look better than they are. Williams was a one time fluke miraculous performance in the Super Bowl.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:19 am
by VikingsVictorious
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 8:35 am
Here is the funny thing about looking at Kubiak's past work with QBs. On Jacksonville boards, fans are selling JDF on the basis that Wentz, Foles and Cousins had their best seasons at QB with him as QB coach/OC. He even won a Super Bowl with Foles at QB
So while it is great that Kubiak has had success with QBs in the past, it doesn't tell the whole story.
The record shows that JDF is a good QB coach and a not so good OC.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:52 am
by Pondering Her Percy
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 9:19 am
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 8:35 am
Here is the funny thing about looking at Kubiak's past work with QBs. On Jacksonville boards, fans are selling JDF on the basis that Wentz, Foles and Cousins had their best seasons at QB with him as QB coach/OC. He even won a Super Bowl with Foles at QB
So while it is great that Kubiak has had success with QBs in the past, it doesn't tell the whole story.
The record shows that JDF is a good QB coach and a not so good OC.
Exactly. JDF has been an OC twice in his career and failed both times. He didnt call the plays for Foles. He worked with Foles. Big difference. Being a position coach compared to calling plays and running an entire offense is night and day. And JDF didnt have a clue what he was doing.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:20 pm
by Raptorman
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 7:19 am
I wasn't the one who started the comparison. I pointed out the fact that Gibbs won Super Bowls with three bums at QB and he did. Regardless Theisman wasn't as good as some people think. That's why he was a 4th round pick based on his contemporaries also. But your correct comparing guys from different eras is very hard and it wasn't my point. Next you'll point out how great Rypkien was when in fact he wasn't that good. Same with Williams and Theisman. Matter of fact Williams was basically washed up when Gibbs won with him. He had nothing else. Bum is rating to high for that guy at that point. He was finished but won a Super Bowl because the massive OL took the game over. It's not that hard to see.
Willians started 5 games that year. 2 during the season and 3 playoff games. The fact of the matter is, Williams was a backup QB at the time.
But I guess that doesn't matter.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:10 pm
by VikingsVictorious
Raptorman wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 3:20 pm
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 7:19 am
I wasn't the one who started the comparison. I pointed out the fact that Gibbs won Super Bowls with three bums at QB and he did. Regardless Theisman wasn't as good as some people think. That's why he was a 4th round pick based on his contemporaries also. But your correct comparing guys from different eras is very hard and it wasn't my point. Next you'll point out how great Rypkien was when in fact he wasn't that good. Same with Williams and Theisman. Matter of fact Williams was basically washed up when Gibbs won with him. He had nothing else. Bum is rating to high for that guy at that point. He was finished but won a Super Bowl because the massive OL took the game over. It's not that hard to see.
Willians started 5 games that year. 2 during the season and 3 playoff games. The fact of the matter is, Williams was a backup QB at the time.
But I guess that doesn't matter.
I'm confused. Is there something important regarding who Williams replaced? Was it due to injury? Was said QB still injured at the time of the Super Bowl.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:07 pm
by Raptorman
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 4:10 pm
Raptorman wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 3:20 pm
Willians started 5 games that year. 2 during the season and 3 playoff games. The fact of the matter is, Williams was a backup QB at the time.
But I guess that doesn't matter.
I'm confused. Is there something important regarding who Williams replaced? Was it due to injury? Was said QB still injured at the time of the Super Bowl.
Jay Schroeder. Injured his shoulder and played off and on during the year. Williams and another fine QB named Ed Rubbert split some of the games Schroeder didn't play. Williams Started all the playoff games.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:28 pm
by J. Kapp 11
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 8:35 am
Here is the funny thing about looking at Kubiak's past work with QBs. On Jacksonville boards, fans are selling JDF on the basis that Wentz, Foles and Cousins had their best seasons at QB with him as QB coach/OC. He even won a Super Bowl with Foles at QB
So while it is great that Kubiak has had success with QBs in the past, it doesn't tell the whole story.
You're right.
He's also had success with running backs, tight ends and offensive lines.
Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?
Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:27 am
by CharVike
Raptorman wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 3:20 pm
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 7:19 am
I wasn't the one who started the comparison. I pointed out the fact that Gibbs won Super Bowls with three bums at QB and he did. Regardless Theisman wasn't as good as some people think. That's why he was a 4th round pick based on his contemporaries also. But your correct comparing guys from different eras is very hard and it wasn't my point. Next you'll point out how great Rypkien was when in fact he wasn't that good. Same with Williams and Theisman. Matter of fact Williams was basically washed up when Gibbs won with him. He had nothing else. Bum is rating to high for that guy at that point. He was finished but won a Super Bowl because the massive OL took the game over. It's not that hard to see.
Willians started 5 games that year. 2 during the season and 3 playoff games. The fact of the matter is, Williams was a backup QB at the time.
But I guess that doesn't matter.
Everybody knows he was a backup. Even he was shocked that Gibbs called him up to play. He even knew he was finished. The guy never was that good regardless of some thoughts here. He was a bum that nobody wanted but Gibbs. But Gibbs knew he could win by pounding the rock down teams throats.