Vikings 2019 Draft Class Review

[Pondering Her Percy]

Looks like we need to clear about $1.5M more just to sign our rookies. Should be interesting.

I am guessing Rudy is gone. I don't see how we can keep him at his salary.
I suppose by drafting 85 6th and 7th rounders that it is cheaper? Idk.

Wow we had 85? Must have missed the other 78....

[Pondering Her Percy]

Sources say #Vikings looking this spring into moving Jayron Kearse from safety to weakside linebacker. The 6-4, 215-pound Kearse was a linebacker in high school. Vikings didn’t draft an outside backer & drafted a safety (Marcus Epps) & signed an undrafted safety (Micah Abernathy)

This is an interesting one. Kearse is going to play that big nickel role here by the looks of it (what Iloka did in Cincy). I wouldn’t mind that move. I think Kearse was solid when filling in last year. Not bad for a 7th rounder

[YikesVikes]

Say it for those in the back rows. Plenty of better rbs were taken in the 5th and 6th rounds. This guy was a reach, plain and simple. Yes we needed to address the position but did we need to do it when we did? is there a huge difference between him and Ryquell Armstead (also a big back)? Was a big back the only way to solve this our problem? Would a scat back work as well? Taking him in the 3rd was a bad pick. We may grow to love the player but spending starter caliber draft picks on a back-up or insurance policy is bad drafting.

How does anyone possibly know there were “easily” better picks in the 5th-7th rounds? That doesn’t even make sense. How do you label him a reach? According to what standards? Your own. You have nothing to base it off of. Your slow argument is non-existent. It’s because we passed on Butler. Latavius Murray was a great signing because he could play at a high level when cook wasn’t healthy.

Investing in a good RB is more important than a WR that’s going to play under 50% of snaps. We don’t advance to the NFC championship 2 years ago if it wasn’t for Latavius Murray. We advanced there with Jarius Wright as our #3. Yeah we need a better #3 currently. But we can’t rely on an UDFA and Ameer Abdullah to carry the weight if cook misses time. Cook and Murray played roughly 1000 snaps last year. Murray and McKinnon played roughly 1000 snaps in 2017. Our #3 WR played about 500 snaps both years. See my point? What do we need more? Who’s going to contribute more? Especially switching to a run first offense. We need a complementary back to cook that can handle full loads. It’s a no brainer if you ask me

You are assuming that not picking him in the 3rd means that we would not have addressed back up RB at all. That's one of many assumptions. The issue isnt the addressing of the need. Its the time and person selected to do so. You know this as it has been stated multiple times.

Second, we don't have a WR3 as good as Wright was in that role. That's the problem.

Third, I am defining him as a reach based on the talent that was on the board (his position and others), and the round in which we selected him. If we had taken Dru Samia at 18 would you not describe that as a reach? This is one to a lesser extent. He is slow, you can try to mitigate it with all the 10 yard splits and Pro day vs. Combine numbers you want. Dude ran a 4.67 at the combine ANDDDDD he had 9 runs past 15 yards in one season. He's consistent with yardage but he clearly lacks breakaway speed. In the pros, those 5-yard gains get hard because the holes close faster. I would have much rathered Ryquell Armstead. A big back but one capable of running a 4.45.

Fourth. You try to combine Cook and Murray's usage to make your argument against WR3. Why don't you give me Murrays plays including those during the time Cook was injured. That is a much more logical argument. You keep playing with the numbers to try and prove your point. Let's compare apples to apples, please.

[YikesVikes]

Sources say #Vikings looking this spring into moving Jayron Kearse from safety to weakside linebacker. The 6-4, 215-pound Kearse was a linebacker in high school. Vikings didn’t draft an outside backer & drafted a safety (Marcus Epps) & signed an undrafted safety (Micah Abernathy)

This is an interesting one. Kearse is going to play that big nickel role here by the looks of it (what Iloka did in Cincy). I wouldn’t mind that move. I think Kearse was solid when filling in last year. Not bad for a 7th rounder

Iloka played free. Was primarily a deep third guy.

[YikesVikes]

One last point. You raised injury concerns about Cook but neglected to mention how important having a #3 is with a guy like Diggs. Both players have missed significant time the past 2 seasons. Some of Cook's was a serious injury (which may never happen again). Diggs, always seem to be hobbled by smaller frequent injuries. WR3 is more important.

[808vikingsfan]

Brett Kollmann reviews the Vikings draft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v3jh4c0oVE&t=2144s

[Pondering Her Percy]

You are assuming that not picking him in the 3rd means that we would not have addressed back up RB at all. That's one of many assumptions. The issue isnt the addressing of the need. Its the time and person selected to do so. You know this as it has been stated multiple times.

Exactly. Like I said, I had him ranked as my 4th RB in this class. He was drafted right about where he was projected to go. The drop off at RB was large IMO. We could have addressed it later, but I don’t think we were going to get a better player out of it. There weren’t many workhorses like Mattison out there.

Second, we don't have a WR3 as good as Wright was in that role. That's the problem.

And again, with Kubiak running more 2 TE sets, #3 is going to be limited snap wise regardless. Given the probability of your RB going down with injury compared to WR is significant higher given the hits they take every game.

Third, I am defining him as a reach based on the talent that was on the board (his position and others), and the round in which we selected him. If we had taken Dru Samia at 18 would you not describe that as a reach? This is one to a lesser extent. He is slow, you can try to mitigate it with all the 10 yard splits and Pro day vs. Combine numbers you want. Dude ran a 4.67 at the combine ANDDDDD he had 9 runs past 15 yards in one season. He's consistent with yardage but he clearly lacks breakaway speed. In the pros, those 5-yard gains get hard because the holes close faster. I would have much rathered Ryquell Armstead. A big back but one capable of running a 4.45.

What? I literally never once used a 10 yard split to defend my argument first of all. Second, your slow argument has been proved false multiple times. No less I put his times next to legit RBs all over the league and they are nearly identical but you’ve yet to address it. So if you think he’s slow, you must think Kareem Hunt, Leveon Bell and James Conner are slow too. And they don’t get it done on the field either right? It’s a poor, poor argument you have.

Fourth. You try to combine Cook and Murray's usage to make your argument against WR3. Why don't you give me Murrays plays including those during the time Cook was injured. That is a much more logical argument. You keep playing with the numbers to try and prove your point. Let's compare apples to apples, please.

Ok? And what does that prove? If it wasn’t for Latavius Murray, we aren’t in the NFC championship game in 2017. We would have had zero running game with McKinnon trying to carry a load. Where do you think we’re going to get if cook goes down with injury and we don’t have a viable backup that can carry a load game in and game out like Murray could??

Diggs has missed 9 games in his career. Our record in those 9 games.....7-2. This team can win games without Stefon Diggs if he was to go down with injury. This team will struggle to win games without a running game. We’ve literally gotten to the playoffs before with no QB and no WRs but a legit running game and defense. When was the last time we made the playoffs with no running game? I couldn’t even tell you. If we’re going to be a run first team, backup RB is far and away a higher priority than a 3rd WR

[YikesVikes]

Exactly. Like I said, I had him ranked as my 4th RB in this class. He was drafted right about where he was projected to go. The drop off at RB was large IMO. We could have addressed it later, but I don’t think we were going to get a better player out of it. There weren’t many workhorses like Mattison out there.

There were 3 workhorse guys drafted after him but please continue. I would love to see who were the 3 backs you had rated higher than him? everything I have seen has him as the 8-10 best back in this draft.

And again, with Kubiak running more 2 TE sets, #3 is going to be limited snap wise regardless. Given the probability of your RB going down with injury compared to WR is significant higher given the hits they take every game.

You pulled that out of your ####. I'll love to see a stat sayng RB are more likely to get injured than WRs. Do they get hit more? Yes.

What? I literally never once used a 10 yard split to defend my argument first of all. Second, your slow argument has been proved false multiple times. No less I put his times next to legit RBs all over the league and they are nearly identical but you’ve yet to address it. So if you think he’s slow, you must think Kareem Hunt, Leveon Bell and James Conner are slow too. And they don’t get it done on the field either right? It’s a poor, poor argument you have.

Because I dont have too much time to waste on this. I will point you to 3 cone drill. Also, most of the backs you listed are well over 230lbs and still out ran Mattison. Also, all those guys had disappointing combines/ (i.e bad) even for bigger backs. This was the expected slow time for your guy. Doesn't make him a bad back. It makes him a bad choice for the 3rd round. You can have an All Pro WR sitting there in the 3rd and you take him, but if no other teams were going to take him until the 5th, Its a bad draft pick. Pick value matters.

Ok? And what does that prove? If it wasn’t for Latavius Murray, we aren’t in the NFC championship game in 2017. We would have had zero running game with McKinnon trying to carry a load. Where do you think we’re going to get if cook goes down with injury and we don’t have a viable backup that can carry a load game in and game out like Murray could??

I found this funny because this was a huge part of your argument. Usage. You tried to count what Cook and Murray used together when the argument is how much does a back up running back play. Now sir, tell me, how many snaps did Mr. Murray have last season?

Diggs has missed 9 games in his career. Our record in those 9 games.....7-2. This team can win games without Stefon Diggs if he was to go down with injury. This team will struggle to win games without a running game. We’ve literally gotten to the playoffs before with no QB and no WRs but a legit running game and defense. When was the last time we made the playoffs with no running game? I couldn’t even tell you. If we’re going to be a run first team, backup RB is far and away a higher priority than a 3rd WR

Again, flawed logic. We went 11-12 in 2017 when Dalvin Cook missed. That doesn't make it a good idea not to have some redundancies behind both players. Both players miss time. Dalvin's injuries are more freak in nature. Diggs is constantly banged up. I've seen our passing game with all our starters get shut down. If we don't pray for a 3rd we are in trouble.

[Pondering Her Percy]

There were 3 workhorse guys drafted after him but please continue. I would love to see who were the 3 backs you had rated higher than him? everything I have seen has him as the 8-10 best back in this draft.

Just went back and looked at my rankings. Sorry had him 5th to be exact. Sanders, Henderson Montgomery, singletary I had ahead of him. Followed by Williams, Harris, Jacobs and hill. The bama backs were so hard to judge because they split carries all the time. Mattison was knocking down 30+ carries a game at years end.

You pulled that out of your ####. I'll love to see a stat sayng RB are more likely to get injured than WRs. Do they get hit more? Yes.

RBs are getting tackled and hit more than any other player on the field. Why wouldn’t their probability be higher? Why do you think everyone is going to a 2 back committee now? Their careers are shorter for a reason. The wear and tear on a body. Stefon Diggs is touching the ball about 10 times every game. A true starting RB is touching it what? 20 carries plus a few catches? A starting RB is touching the ball and getting hit more than double any other position. It’s just common sense.

Because I dont have too much time to waste on this. I will point you to 3 cone drill. Also, most of the backs you listed are well over 230lbs and still out ran Mattison. Also, all those guys had disappointing combines/ (i.e bad) even for bigger backs. This was the expected slow time for your guy. Doesn't make him a bad back. It makes him a bad choice for the 3rd round. You can have an All Pro WR sitting there in the 3rd and you take him, but if no other teams were going to take him until the 5th, Its a bad draft pick. Pick value matters.

Again another terrible argument. Basing everything off of combine numbers. Devin singletary had a 3 cone of 7.32. Trayveon Williams was 7.44. God even Dalvin Cooks was 7.26. Mattisons was 7.19. You have no argument to prove the guy is “slow”. Dalvin Cook had a worse 3 cone. Does that mean he was a bad early 2nd round pick? Enough with the combine numbers. You’re proving nothing.

I found this funny because this was a huge part of your argument. Usage. You tried to count what Cook and Murray used together when the argument is how much does a back up running back play. Now sir, tell me, how many snaps did Mr. Murray have last season?

He had over 460.....when you have a RB that can’t stay healthy, your backup is going to be getting serious time. And in a run first offense, even with your starter healthy, Mattison will get his fair share of carries.

Again, flawed logic. We went 11-12 in 2017 when Dalvin Cook missed. That doesn't make it a good idea not to have some redundancies behind both players. Both players miss time. Dalvin's injuries are more freak in nature. Diggs is constantly banged up. I've seen our passing game with all our starters get shut down. If we don't pray for a 3rd we are in trouble.

11-12?? I’m guessing you mean 11-2? I don’t get your point here. We went 11-2 because we didn’t miss a beat with our running game because we had Murray. In Diggs ENTIRE career we’re 7-2 with him out. We made it just fine without him here and there.

Yeah our passing game was shut down because we were unbelievably predictable last year in flips offense. They knew we weren’t going to run the ball because Flip was a moron so everyone sat back in coverage. You’re basing that all off of last year which is a terrible example. That’s a whole different animal in itself

[CharVike]

One last point. You raised injury concerns about Cook but neglected to mention how important having a #3 is with a guy like Diggs. Both players have missed significant time the past 2 seasons. Some of Cook's was a serious injury (which may never happen again). Diggs, always seem to be hobbled by smaller frequent injuries. WR3 is more important.

Diggs will miss time. That has been the pattern. Cook so far also misses time. I think they will find a WR during camp cut downs. Right now we have AT who is very good and a guy who misses time. Beyond that there is nothing. Something has to be done. There isn't a QB that ever played that can thrive with that mess. Perhaps Treadwell will improve. That would be great news and could happen.

[StumpHunter]

Exactly. Like I said, I had him ranked as my 4th RB in this class. He was drafted right about where he was projected to go. The drop off at RB was large IMO. We could have addressed it later, but I don’t think we were going to get a better player out of it. There weren’t many workhorses like Mattison out there.

There were 3 workhorse guys drafted after him but please continue. I would love to see who were the 3 backs you had rated higher than him? everything I have seen has him as the 8-10 best back in this draft.

And again, with Kubiak running more 2 TE sets, #3 is going to be limited snap wise regardless. Given the probability of your RB going down with injury compared to WR is significant higher given the hits they take every game.

You pulled that out of your ####. I'll love to see a stat sayng RB are more likely to get injured than WRs. Do they get hit more? Yes.

What? I literally never once used a 10 yard split to defend my argument first of all. Second, your slow argument has been proved false multiple times. No less I put his times next to legit RBs all over the league and they are nearly identical but you’ve yet to address it. So if you think he’s slow, you must think Kareem Hunt, Leveon Bell and James Conner are slow too. And they don’t get it done on the field either right? It’s a poor, poor argument you have.

Because I dont have too much time to waste on this. I will point you to 3 cone drill. Also, most of the backs you listed are well over 230lbs and still out ran Mattison. Also, all those guys had disappointing combines/ (i.e bad) even for bigger backs. This was the expected slow time for your guy. Doesn't make him a bad back. It makes him a bad choice for the 3rd round. You can have an All Pro WR sitting there in the 3rd and you take him, but if no other teams were going to take him until the 5th, Its a bad draft pick. Pick value matters.

Ok? And what does that prove? If it wasn’t for Latavius Murray, we aren’t in the NFC championship game in 2017. We would have had zero running game with McKinnon trying to carry a load. Where do you think we’re going to get if cook goes down with injury and we don’t have a viable backup that can carry a load game in and game out like Murray could??

I found this funny because this was a huge part of your argument. Usage. You tried to count what Cook and Murray used together when the argument is how much does a back up running back play. Now sir, tell me, how many snaps did Mr. Murray have last season?

Diggs has missed 9 games in his career. Our record in those 9 games.....7-2. This team can win games without Stefon Diggs if he was to go down with injury. This team will struggle to win games without a running game. We’ve literally gotten to the playoffs before with no QB and no WRs but a legit running game and defense. When was the last time we made the playoffs with no running game? I couldn’t even tell you. If we’re going to be a run first team, backup RB is far and away a higher priority than a 3rd WR

Again, flawed logic. We went 11-12 in 2017 when Dalvin Cook missed. That doesn't make it a good idea not to have some redundancies behind both players. Both players miss time. Dalvin's injuries are more freak in nature. Diggs is constantly banged up. I've seen our passing game with all our starters get shut down. If we don't pray for a 3rd we are in trouble.

I saw RB #2 as a big need on this team, but I don’t know if the Vikings got the right guy. It was like they were trying to replace Murray as a compliment to Cook, when they should have just been trying to find the most dynamic RB. Similar to when they drafted McKinnon when Freeman was on the board, because he complimented AP more. Mattison seems like an awesome person, and I think he will contribute year one, but he doesn’t seem capable of making those explosive runs. As I pointed out before the draft, short yardage situations were an issue last year, so maybe this addition makes sense. Time will tell.

I will say though, that if Hakeem Butler or Myles Boykin ends up being good WRs in the NFL, we screwed up. It is just so much easier to find solid depth at RB than it is to find a WR who can make an impact. That is true in free agency as well as the draft.

[Mothman]

I saw RB #2 as a big need on this team, but I don’t know if the Vikings got the right guy. It was like they were trying to replace Murray as a compliment to Cook, when they should have just been trying to find the most dynamic RB.

I believe that's known as "Toby Gerhart Syndrome".

[Pondering Her Percy]

One last point. You raised injury concerns about Cook but neglected to mention how important having a #3 is with a guy like Diggs. Both players have missed significant time the past 2 seasons. Some of Cook's was a serious injury (which may never happen again). Diggs, always seem to be hobbled by smaller frequent injuries. WR3 is more important.

Diggs will miss time. That has been the pattern. Cook so far also misses time. I think they will find a WR during camp cut downs. Right now we have AT who is very good and a guy who misses time. Beyond that there is nothing. Something has to be done. There isn't a QB that ever played that can thrive with that mess. Perhaps Treadwell will improve. That would be great news and could happen.

Diggs isnt just a guy that "misses time". He's a top 15 WR in the NFL if you ask me. We have an elite duo of WRs. Yes, we need to figure something out at #3 WR, but I feel like you're right, they could very well find someone in camp. Dont count out 7th rounder Dillon Mitchell. He was a good value pick in the 7th. He had 75 catches for almost 1200 yards and 10 TDs at Oregon. Granted, that offense is known to be pretty obscure compared to NFL offenses but there is definitely talent there. Also, there are plenty of FA's still out there that could come in and contribute. I wouldnt rule that out either.

[mansquatch]

#3 WR is almost always a depth guy. Not many teams are allocating a ton of cap space to #3 WR. Given the cap the Vikings are giving the defense, they definitely won't be spending money on #3. Also, IMO, the question is more skillset for the Vikings. They two possession type guys who make a lot of contested catches. They need a guy who can stretch the field at #3.

On the dynamic runner thing. I get the general BPA point of view, but there is value in having a power runner and more of shifty burst guy. We have the latter in Cook. We lost the power, inside the tackles guy in Murray so it made sense for the Vikings to go for the more power type back. Also in the mix is how well the guy can pass protect and how well he can make plays catching the ball. I'm willing to give up some 40 time if the guy can do everything else well. Especially when you already have the speed guy in Cook as your starter.

I really am still shocked people are mad about this draft. The went interior OL in the 1st round and added a guard later. This was far and away the biggest need on the team and they addressed it. Yet, you are mad about a late 3rd round pick. I think this is the most I've talked about a 3rd round pick on this board in my time here and I've been posting since the Tice era.

[Pondering Her Percy]

There were 3 workhorse guys drafted after him but please continue. I would love to see who were the 3 backs you had rated higher than him? everything I have seen has him as the 8-10 best back in this draft.



You pulled that out of your ####. I'll love to see a stat sayng RB are more likely to get injured than WRs. Do they get hit more? Yes.



Because I dont have too much time to waste on this. I will point you to 3 cone drill. Also, most of the backs you listed are well over 230lbs and still out ran Mattison. Also, all those guys had disappointing combines/ (i.e bad) even for bigger backs. This was the expected slow time for your guy. Doesn't make him a bad back. It makes him a bad choice for the 3rd round. You can have an All Pro WR sitting there in the 3rd and you take him, but if no other teams were going to take him until the 5th, Its a bad draft pick. Pick value matters.




I found this funny because this was a huge part of your argument. Usage. You tried to count what Cook and Murray used together when the argument is how much does a back up running back play. Now sir, tell me, how many snaps did Mr. Murray have last season?



Again, flawed logic. We went 11-12 in 2017 when Dalvin Cook missed. That doesn't make it a good idea not to have some redundancies behind both players. Both players miss time. Dalvin's injuries are more freak in nature. Diggs is constantly banged up. I've seen our passing game with all our starters get shut down. If we don't pray for a 3rd we are in trouble.

I saw RB #2 as a big need on this team, but I don’t know if the Vikings got the right guy. It was like they were trying to replace Murray as a compliment to Cook, when they should have just been trying to find the most dynamic RB. Similar to when they drafted McKinnon when Freeman was on the board, because he complimented AP more. Mattison seems like an awesome person, and I think he will contribute year one, but he doesn’t seem capable of making those explosive runs. As I pointed out before the draft, short yardage situations were an issue last year, so maybe this addition makes sense. Time will tell.

I will say though, that if Hakeem Butler or Myles Boykin ends up being good WRs in the NFL, we screwed up. It is just so much easier to find solid depth at RB than it is to find a WR who can make an impact. That is true in free agency as well as the draft.

I agree with some of your post here but here's my thing, McKinnon was strictly a 3rd down back coming out. He was a small, elusive pass catching back that played multiple positions in college. He was more of an athlete than anything. Mattison is a true workhorse that ALSO has great hands. He's more of a do it all back than McKinnon ever was. McKinnon would have a long run here and there but he couldnt carry the ball 25+ times a game on a consistent basis and be successful at it. His last two years with us, he averaged under 4.0 YPC. And about 3.0 YPC when he was carrying the ball over 12 times. His size alone didnt warrant being a workhorse back in the NFL. Maybe Mattison's explosive plays were lacking in college, but this guy has carried a load on a consistent basis day in and day out. He also has the build to sustain hits and so on. I mean I go off tape more than anything. He has an excellent short burst and great vision. He's a straight line downhill type runner. Thats what we want in a run first offense

We now have Dalvin Cook who is a do it all back and Alexander Mattison who is a do it all back. That's not drafting a complementary RB to Cook. Before, we had Adrian Peterson who was one of the best, but completely one dimensional and then you had McKinnon who was the opposite of Peterson and was a pass catching back. That IS complementing your starter. We had one guy that could do one thing and another guy that could do a different thing. Now we have 2 guys that can do everything. We didnt draft him as a comp. back to Cook, we drafted him to have a 2nd workhorse back that can play at any time on any down and take over if he is ever needed.

I dont want this to be taken out of context because I love Adrian Peterson and he's probably the best player this organization has ever had outside of Randy Moss. But I would take this combination of RBs we have right now any day over what we had with AP and McKinnon. Mainly because if AP went down, we were stuck with a plodder RB in Asiata and McKinnon catching passes. McKinnon couldnt fill in APs role. He couldnt be the workhorse AP was. Obviously I'm not saying talent wise, I'm just saying he just couldnt carry a load game in and game out. We dont have to worry about that with Mattison if Cook was to go down. He's a poor man's Dalvin Cook IMO. Mattison is 10 times the RB Matt Asiata was and offers way more than McKinnon did. We werent getting explosive plays when AP wasnt on the field. Occasional ones from McKinnon but literally nothing from Asiata. Mattison can do it all if he ever needs to and is even a good spell back for when Cook needs a breather. I'm personally glad we didnt go out and draft a short statured athlete that's a pass catcher. Because if we lost Cook for any time, we're right back to square one like we were when Peterson was out. With Mattison, that doesnt happen and this is why I believe this was a much better pick than many perceive.