Seahawks post game thread

[Super Bowl or Bust]

The Vikings control their own destiny. Win last three and in the playoffs.

Thielen and Diggs are amazing. For most of the year, Cousins could wing it out there and they could make the plays, most of the time. But, the last games of the year are always different. Players are hurt, sometimes tired. It is amazing, thankfully, that Thielen was not seriously hurt last night. Hope the injury doesn't linger, as he is arguably the best offensive player on the team.

Cousins can rise to the occasion, play his best games, and help the team go to the playoffs and maybe the Super Bowl. Or, he can repeat history, protect himself, fumble and throw the ball up for grabs, particularly in the fourth quarter, and jog off the field unaffected.

Last night, I didn't see him on the field after the game, so maybe this game did have an effect. We'll see.

[808vikingsfan]

To be fair to Keenum (not sure how accurate.):

Keenum has beaten the chargers, Steelers, and the seahawks... all playoff teams with winning records.

He lost to the chiefs by 4, the rams by 3, the chiefs by 3, Houston by 2, which is 4 games against 3 of the absolute hottest and best teams in the NFL right now.

The majority of his losses have been by less than 1 score.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikin ... k_cousins/

[Pondering Her Percy]

If Keenum doesn’t improve a team that was led by Trevor Siemien and Paxton Lynch last year , then he’s probably one of the worst QBs in franchise history lol

I dunno ... how many more wins do you see the Broncos having with Cousins at the helm? We just went from "Not bad, but not a difference maker" to "Pretty good, but not a difference maker" at quarterback. Considering the commitment made by the team it's just sour grapes from me, really.

I mean there are two teams that the Broncos lost to that we beat this year. The Jets and SF. So I would say Cousins beats both of them for sure. I also feel like Cousins would've had a field day against Kansas City's defense. Not saying he would beat them but that's a bad defense that Keenum did little against. Also, Cousins would have the 7th best run offense in the NFL. Cliff, do you truly believe Case Keenum is more skilled or equally as skilled of a QB as Kirk Cousins? From a pure QB perspective. Arm strength, accuracy, ability to read defenses, report with WRs, etc. I dont think it's even close. Case had his traits for sure, but he has PROVED it was a 1 year thing. Like that tweet said that I posted earlier, we passed on the inevitable regression of Case Keenum. Just because Kirk Cousins came into a SB caliber team doesnt necessarily mean he just walks in and brings us to the SB year 1. It doesnt work like that. It's not that easy. Should he increase our chances? Sure. But to ask for him to repeat a miracle season by Keenum one year in with a completely new offensive coordinator and new team, isnt that easy.

Again, I'm not giving Cousins a "pass". The guy makes mistakes but I've always been a fan of Cousins and think he's a good QB. I just know for a fact that he is a better pure QB than Case Keenum. Which is why I still give Cousins $84 million any day of the week. The QB market is based on leverage. And it isnt so often QBs like Cousins hit the market. You pull that trigger when you can. If you're Spielman you struck out on everything else (high picked QBs and trading for a QB). You take that shot. You put the best players on the field you can

[Pondering Her Percy]

To be fair to Keenum (not sure how accurate.):

Keenum has beaten the chargers, Steelers, and the seahawks... all playoff teams with winning records.

He lost to the chiefs by 4, the rams by 3, the chiefs by 3, Houston by 2, which is 4 games against 3 of the absolute hottest and best teams in the NFL right now.

The majority of his losses have been by less than 1 score.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikin ... k_cousins/

Yeah being fair to Keenum also entails his inconsistencies and losing to the 49ers and Jets and barely squeaking by the Raiders as well. Those are arguably the 3 worst teams in football right now. Go ahead and bring up the Buffalo game. Not defending them because they arent a good football team but I will say, they have the #1 total defense in the NFL. I watch them all the time being from NY. Their defense is damn good.There is nothing good about the 49ers, Jets or Raiders.

[Cliff]

I mean there are two teams that the Broncos lost to that we beat this year. The Jets and SF. So I would say Cousins beats both of them for sure. I also feel like Cousins would've had a field day against Kansas City's defense. Not saying he would beat them but that's a bad defense that Keenum did little against. Also, Cousins would have the 7th best run offense in the NFL. Cliff, do you truly believe Case Keenum is more skilled or equally as skilled of a QB as Kirk Cousins? From a pure QB perspective. Arm strength, accuracy, ability to read defenses, report with WRs, etc. I dont think it's even close. Case had his traits for sure, but he has PROVED it was a 1 year thing. Like that tweet said that I posted earlier, we passed on the inevitable regression of Case Keenum. Just because Kirk Cousins came into a SB caliber team doesnt necessarily mean he just walks in and brings us to the SB year 1. It doesnt work like that. It's not that easy. Should he increase our chances? Sure. But to ask for him to repeat a miracle season by Keenum one year in with a completely new offensive coordinator and new team, isnt that easy.

Again, I'm not giving Cousins a "pass". The guy makes mistakes but I've always been a fan of Cousins and think he's a good QB. I just know for a fact that he is a better pure QB than Case Keenum. Which is why I still give Cousins $84 million any day of the week. The QB market is based on leverage. And it isnt so often QBs like Cousins hit the market. You pull that trigger when you can. If you're Spielman you struck out on everything else (high picked QBs and trading for a QB). You take that shot. You put the best players on the field you can

The Broncos have more quality wins than the Vikings. I think that's undisputed.

I think Case is better than Kirk in the place where it matters most for this particular offense; performance under pressure. Keenum may not have been able to reproduce his performance from last season, but the reason it worked was his ability to make plays under pressure.

What Tom Brady And Case Keenum Do Better Than Anyone Else

In 2017, Minnesota’s Case Keenum (58.5) and New England’s Tom Brady (54.0) led all quarterbacks in QBR under pressure with marks that rank among the top 10 in all seasons tracked since 2009.

I've pointed this out in the MVP thread but I'll show it again. During the same time period Cousins was pressured less and was much worse at it.

[Mothman]

Yeah being fair to Keenum also entails his inconsistencies and losing to the 49ers and Jets and barely squeaking by the Raiders as well. Those are arguably the 3 worst teams in football right now. Go ahead and bring up the Buffalo game. Not defending them because they arent a good football team but I will say, they have the #1 total defense in the NFL. I watch them all the time being from NY. Their defense is damn good.

Their defense IS good.

I wonder who the defensive coordinator is in Buffalo these days?

I'm not trying to start anything, VMB. I just think that particular defensive coordinator is a good guy and I'd like to see him do well.

[Mothman]

The Broncos have more quality wins than the Vikings. I think that's undisputed.

I think Case is better than Kirk in the place where it matters most for this particular offense; performance under pressure. Keenum may not have been able to reproduce his performance from last season, but the reason it worked was his ability to make plays under pressure.

In addition his performance under pressure and his mobility, there are other considerations too: there would have been more continuity with Case. His performance in Denver doesn't necessarily equate to how he would have performed in Minnesota, playing another year with Thielen, Diggs, and co.

There's also the $9 million difference in cap hit this year (according to sporttrac). Might that have procured additional OL help, which in turn might have helped the QB, running game, etc.? I forget which OL were available in free agency but it seems reasonable to question whether what they gain from Cousins as a pocket passer offsets what Keenum brought to the table, including the lower price and the flexibility to add more more talent.

[halfgiz]

To be fair to Keenum (not sure how accurate.):

Keenum has beaten the chargers, Steelers, and the seahawks... all playoff teams with winning records.

He lost to the chiefs by 4, the rams by 3, the chiefs by 3, Houston by 2, which is 4 games against 3 of the absolute hottest and best teams in the NFL right now.

The majority of his losses have been by less than 1 score.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikin ... k_cousins/

Not to mention 2 of the games Case put them into position to kick the winning FG and the kicker missed.

[purplehaze]

The Broncos have more quality wins than the Vikings. I think that's undisputed.

I think Case is better than Kirk in the place where it matters most for this particular offense; performance under pressure. Keenum may not have been able to reproduce his performance from last season, but the reason it worked was his ability to make plays under pressure.

In addition his performance under pressure and his mobility, there are other considerations too: there would have been more continuity with Case. His performance in Denver doesn't necessarily equate to how he would have performed in Minnesota, playing another year with Thielen, Diggs, and co.

There's also the $9 million difference in cap hit this year (according to sporttrac). Might that have procured additional OL help, which in turn might have helped the QB, running game, etc.? I forget which OL were available in free agency but it seems reasonable to question whether what they gain from Cousins as a pocket passer offsets what Keenum brought to the table, including the lower price and the flexibility to add more more talent.

Excellent points Moth.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

I dunno ... how many more wins do you see the Broncos having with Cousins at the helm? We just went from "Not bad, but not a difference maker" to "Pretty good, but not a difference maker" at quarterback. Considering the commitment made by the team it's just sour grapes from me, really.

I mean there are two teams that the Broncos lost to that we beat this year. The Jets and SF. So I would say Cousins beats both of them for sure. I also feel like Cousins would've had a field day against Kansas City's defense. Not saying he would beat them but that's a bad defense that Keenum did little against. Also, Cousins would have the 7th best run offense in the NFL. Cliff, do you truly believe Case Keenum is more skilled or equally as skilled of a QB as Kirk Cousins? From a pure QB perspective. Arm strength, accuracy, ability to read defenses, report with WRs, etc. I dont think it's even close. Case had his traits for sure, but he has PROVED it was a 1 year thing. Like that tweet said that I posted earlier, we passed on the inevitable regression of Case Keenum. Just because Kirk Cousins came into a SB caliber team doesnt necessarily mean he just walks in and brings us to the SB year 1. It doesnt work like that. It's not that easy. Should he increase our chances? Sure. But to ask for him to repeat a miracle season by Keenum one year in with a completely new offensive coordinator and new team, isnt that easy.

Again, I'm not giving Cousins a "pass". The guy makes mistakes but I've always been a fan of Cousins and think he's a good QB. I just know for a fact that he is a better pure QB than Case Keenum. Which is why I still give Cousins $84 million any day of the week. The QB market is based on leverage. And it isnt so often QBs like Cousins hit the market. You pull that trigger when you can. If you're Spielman you struck out on everything else (high picked QBs and trading for a QB). You take that shot. You put the best players on the field you can

The problem is that too many people can't see past physical attributes or statistics. Sure, Cousin has the stronger arm, and I have heard many experts say that he is SO accurate (can't say that I have been that impressed overall). I strongly disagree about his ability to read a defense. I think Case has it all over Cousins in this department. I also think Keenum grasps an offense better than Cousins. Cousins doesn't look like he knows what to do with the ball if the primary receiver is covered on a play. Just my observation.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I mean there are two teams that the Broncos lost to that we beat this year. The Jets and SF. So I would say Cousins beats both of them for sure. I also feel like Cousins would've had a field day against Kansas City's defense. Not saying he would beat them but that's a bad defense that Keenum did little against. Also, Cousins would have the 7th best run offense in the NFL. Cliff, do you truly believe Case Keenum is more skilled or equally as skilled of a QB as Kirk Cousins? From a pure QB perspective. Arm strength, accuracy, ability to read defenses, report with WRs, etc. I dont think it's even close. Case had his traits for sure, but he has PROVED it was a 1 year thing. Like that tweet said that I posted earlier, we passed on the inevitable regression of Case Keenum. Just because Kirk Cousins came into a SB caliber team doesnt necessarily mean he just walks in and brings us to the SB year 1. It doesnt work like that. It's not that easy. Should he increase our chances? Sure. But to ask for him to repeat a miracle season by Keenum one year in with a completely new offensive coordinator and new team, isnt that easy.

Again, I'm not giving Cousins a "pass". The guy makes mistakes but I've always been a fan of Cousins and think he's a good QB. I just know for a fact that he is a better pure QB than Case Keenum. Which is why I still give Cousins $84 million any day of the week. The QB market is based on leverage. And it isnt so often QBs like Cousins hit the market. You pull that trigger when you can. If you're Spielman you struck out on everything else (high picked QBs and trading for a QB). You take that shot. You put the best players on the field you can

The problem is that too many people can't see past physical attributes or statistics. Sure, Cousin has the stronger arm, and I have heard many experts say that he is SO accurate (can't say that I have been that impressed overall). I strongly disagree about his ability to read a defense. I think Case has it all over Cousins in this department. I also think Keenum grasps an offense better than Cousins. Cousins doesn't look like he knows what to do with the ball if the primary receiver is covered on a play. Just my observation.

It’s pretty easy to say he “doesn’t grasp an offense well” when he just had an OC get fired 14 weeks in. He had 2-3 offensive coordinator in Washington. And still played well. Keenum has one season to go off him. Outside of last year, nobody really knew who Case Keenum even was and definitely didn’t pay any attention to him and looking to see if he “grasps” an offense or not. As for making reads, Cousins was doing great early in the year when it came to that. That’s an easy observation watching from your tv. Seattle was dropping back 9 guys last night. And guys on here were complaining that he was checking down....when 9 guys drop on you and your best two WR are double teamed, what do you do if you’re cousins? You check it down. But he was “the bad guy” last night for doing that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

To be fair to Keenum (not sure how accurate.):

Keenum has beaten the chargers, Steelers, and the seahawks... all playoff teams with winning records.

He lost to the chiefs by 4, the rams by 3, the chiefs by 3, Houston by 2, which is 4 games against 3 of the absolute hottest and best teams in the NFL right now.

The majority of his losses have been by less than 1 score.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikin ... k_cousins/

Not to mention 2 of the games Case put them into position to kick the winning FG and the kicker missed.

Cousins didn’t do that......against Green Bay....multiple times

[Pondering Her Percy]

The Broncos have more quality wins than the Vikings. I think that's undisputed.

I think Case is better than Kirk in the place where it matters most for this particular offense; performance under pressure. Keenum may not have been able to reproduce his performance from last season, but the reason it worked was his ability to make plays under pressure.

In addition his performance under pressure and his mobility, there are other considerations too: there would have been more continuity with Case. His performance in Denver doesn't necessarily equate to how he would have performed in Minnesota, playing another year with Thielen, Diggs, and co.

There's also the $9 million difference in cap hit this year (according to sporttrac). Might that have procured additional OL help, which in turn might have helped the QB, running game, etc.? I forget which OL were available in free agency but it seems reasonable to question whether what they gain from Cousins as a pocket passer offsets what Keenum brought to the table, including the lower price and the flexibility to add more more talent.

You actually believe that Case Keenum would succeed under an awful OC like flip? Like I said in another thread, he would’ve been a debacle. I just don’t get that after one miracle season, guys are defending him. And after two average to below average seasons with Teddy, guys are defending him. Am I losing it?! Keenum in Denver is bad. Period. Does it equate? No, but let’s not sit here and act like Denver has little talent. They have the 7th best run offense. They had great WRs to start the year. They could’ve succeed just as much as anyone.

Here is why I see Keenum being horrid if he was here right now. Because Flip is a guy that relies on his QB to carry the weight. Could you imagine Keenum throwing 40+ times a game ? Over and over again. Just like the tweet said....we avoided the inevitable regression of Keenum. How fans struggle to see that is beyond me. If he was actually good in Denver, yeah I’d question it too. But he’s not even good right now! Like not even close. Compare case to Kirk all you want. But what needs to happen is shurmur has to be compared to Flip. It’s a GIANT difference. Why anyone thinks Keenum could succeed under Flip is beyond me

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah being fair to Keenum also entails his inconsistencies and losing to the 49ers and Jets and barely squeaking by the Raiders as well. Those are arguably the 3 worst teams in football right now. Go ahead and bring up the Buffalo game. Not defending them because they arent a good football team but I will say, they have the #1 total defense in the NFL. I watch them all the time being from NY. Their defense is damn good.

Their defense IS good.

I wonder who the defensive coordinator is in Buffalo these days?

I'm not trying to start anything, VMB. I just think that particular defensive coordinator is a good guy and I'd like to see him do well.

And let’s be honest, Buffalo with josh Allen, is a million times different than buffalo with Nathan Peterman

[Pondering Her Percy]

For what it’s worth, out of the top 6 highest paid QBs in the nfl annually, Kirk cousins is the only one still in playoff contention.

Rodgers, Ryan, Stafford, jimmy G (injured but wouldn’t have been in the playoffs) and Derek Carr.