Vikings Message Board.Com

fiestavike wrote:Thanks DP. Whenever I see that you have posted in a thread, I'm always excited to see some official, actual news or update. I enjoy your opinions as well, but your role as newshound is much appreciated. Thanks for the info!

DK Sweets wrote:Well, they weigh players at the combine and that's what the scale said...so I guess all I know to say now is congrats on your 40 time.

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if Marshawn has put on a little weight, but if you search images of him when he was in Buffalo he looks the same weight to me.

As for your assertion that we should just look at the players: Mckinnon vs Marshawn

I'm not seeing the discrepancy that you are.

Dude, you're not seriously comparing Jerick McKinnon to Marshawn Lynch.

That's like comparing a Toyota Camry to an armored Humvee. They may appear to be approximately the same size, but there's really no comparison. Marshawn Lynch is the nastiest running back in the NFL. He runs everybody over -- DBs, LBs and linemen. There are a ton of articles with quotes from linemen who have been blown over by this guy, and from defensive coordinators who say it takes 11 guys to tackle him.

And by the way, when he was in Buffalo, he bulked up to 230. Supposedly he lost back down to 215. I don't believe it. Not for a minute. Neither do many people around the NFL.

Seattle News Tribune wrote:Lynch, listed at 5 feet 11 and 215 pounds (Carroll refused to say what he really weighs), is in his second full week of practice after holding out for the start of training camp over his contract.

There's a reason he's called Beast Mode, and it's not because he's a small guy.

Kapp, I'm not comparing their running styles at all. I'm just not allowing you to completely discredit Mckinnon's size in the face of facts.

And I take back my congratulations on your 40 time, I think you were lying!

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Asiata isnt an underrated running imo. I think he's an underrated receiver. I wish we did more screen type passes to him. Other teams do it and seem to have success, but we get blown up. Same as the 3 WR set, where 2 blcok, and the quick pass to the other. Has that ever worked for us?

Interesting point about Asiata as a receiver. I've been impressed with his catching too. I agree that more screen passes to him and the other RBs would be a good idea. Not just dump offs but actual screens.

The quick pass with a 3WR set is something that Musgrave did well at times, including with Patterson. All of the WRs should be able to do this currently, given their speed.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:We wouldnt get value for AD in a trade now, just like we wouldnt have before. It would be nice to get a Gurley for him thugh, if there are any RB's out there this year like him. We are going to be seeing a lot of him in a few weeks, thats going to be a good test for the D. Maybe we can get a few fast TD's and turnovers earlt, so they dont use him as much later on.

As much as I think Norv has screwed Patterson this year, I would consider a lot of trade for CP. I took think his style of running looks tentative, still, and maybe overthinking his protection, which returning kicks. But KRs atr kind of a thing of the past with the new kickoff spot. They did NOT use him properly yet this year, and thats on Norv.

I would much rather hold onto AP for another year and then look to draft Fournette the following year.

chicagopurple wrote:the ONLY guy on the team that I wouldnt trade is Teddy. Even AP is tradable, the RB position is not so critical in todays NFL and HE would likely be able to bring in a handfull of starters and a Pro Bowl OL or so......we need a real Ol....until we have that we wont ever make it to the top.

Keep dreaming pal. He would absolutely not bring a "handful of starters and a pro bowl OL". I have no clue where you even get that assumptions.

And the ONLY guy you wouldnt trade is Teddy?? Are you under the influence or something or am I just reading this wrong. I wouldnt trade Everson, Harrison, Kendricks, Barr, Floyd, Joseph, Rhodes, Diggs, AP, Teddy, Kalil at this point, etc.

I just really have no clue where you were going with this post

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I would much rather hold onto AP for another year and then look to draft Fournette the following year.

If Fournette continues on his current trajectory the Vikings are going to need to have a very bad year to have a shot at snagging him.

chicagopurple wrote:the ONLY guy on the team that I wouldnt trade is Teddy.

LOL, I'm glad you're not the GM

Here's a list of guys I would absolutely NOT, under ANY circumstances, trade away..
Harrison Smith-If he's not hands down the best Safety in the league, top 3 minimum.
Xavier Rhodes
Linval Joseph-Playing as possibly one of the best DT's in the game right now. Literally the entire league.
Sharrif Floyd
Eric Kendricks
Stefon Diggs-Im wondering does he have Antonio Brown potential?
Ted Bridgewater
Everson Griffen
Danielle Hunter-Still think he's going to be the best DE in this league.
Trae Waynes
Anthony Barr
AD

I wish there were one or two, or three o- linemen on that list

I was kind of hoping someone would approach us with a trade for CP. I dont think they will.

That being said, Norv has got to play more of CP. How is he supposed to learn on the bench. He may not have that much more time on the Vikings. I want to see him in a bubble screen, with a few other blockers, on a 3 wr set on the one side. Also something like a TE screen, but giving the ball to CP. I just hate the way he has been treated, even if Norv think hes a bust.

If someone offered us a good deal on Kyle, I personally would take it. If the deal was right. Pruitt is nothing to sneeze at and Kyle just isnt either getting open, or Teddy is missing him.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:If someone offered us a good deal on Kyle, I personally would take it. If the deal was right. Pruitt is nothing to sneeze at and Kyle just isnt either getting open, or Teddy is missing him.

From Andrew Krammer's film study of the Lions game:

Rudolph (53) made a critical one-handed grab in the end zone for his team-leading third touchdown catch of the season. He's been a protector on at least four snaps in every game, except the two against the Lions. Rudolph split out wide more and was used less as a blocker. He found open grass on many downfield attempts, but Bridgewater simply went elsewhere.

Mothman wrote: From Andrew Krammer's film study of the Lions game:

Thanks for that, Jim. It's really hard to fairly evaluate Kyle when you can't always see his assignment and if he's getting open when he does run a route. I'll try to cut him a bit more slack for his lack of production if he's getting separation but Teddy is choosing to throw it elsewhere. That's not on him.

Edit, this was very impressive too:

defense that limited the Lions to 1 for 10 on third downs

That kind of performance is going to win you games. Hope they keep it up.

dead_poet wrote:Thanks for that, Jim. It's really hard to fairly evaluate Kyle when you can't always see his assignment and if he's getting open when he does run a route. I'll try to cut him a bit more slack for his lack of production if he's getting separation but Teddy is choosing to throw it elsewhere. That's not on him.

You're welcome. I figured you woud find that interesting because I know you've been wondering about Rudolph's production, how often he's blocking, etc.

Edit, this was very impressive too:
That kind of performance is going to win you games. Hope they keep it up.

I do too! That's excellent.

DK Sweets wrote:Kapp, I'm not comparing their running styles at all. I'm just not allowing you to completely discredit Mckinnon's size in the face of facts.

Those facts are simply what the teams list on their rosters. Are you going to tell me those roster weights are always truthful?

Here's what I believe: There is no way that Marshawn Lynch weighs only 6 pounds more than Jerick McKinnon. Not a chance.

Another thing ... Marshawn Lynch's distribution of weight is totally different that Jerick McKinnon. Lynch is thick around the middle, butt, and legs, with a very low center of gravity. It's not upper-body strength that makes him hard to bring down. It's that he's a freaking bowling ball.

Finally, combine stats don't matter. This is Lynch's 9th year in the league. His combine numbers are ancient history.

DK Sweets wrote:And I take back my congratulations on your 40 time, I think you were lying!

C'mon, now. Here's what I actually said ...

If Jerick McKinnon weighs 209 pounds, then I'm running a solid 4.4 in the 40 (given that I'm 57 and fat, with one good knee ... prolly not).

I never lie, dude. I may be delusional, but I never lie.

As much as I hate to say it, this team might as well trade Cordarrelle. I don't believe he has a future here in Minnesota any longer.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Those facts are simply what the teams list on their rosters. Are you going to tell me those roster weights are always truthful?

Here's what I believe: There is no way that Marshawn Lynch weighs only 6 pounds more than Jerick McKinnon. Not a chance.

Another thing ... Marshawn Lynch's distribution of weight is totally different that Jerick McKinnon. Lynch is thick around the middle, butt, and legs, with a very low center of gravity. It's not upper-body strength that makes him hard to bring down. It's that he's a freaking bowling ball.

Finally, combine stats don't matter. This is Lynch's 9th year in the league. His combine numbers are ancient history.

*sigh*

I'm telling you that the scale at the combine is probably at least somewhat consistent.

Listen, I've already said that I wouldn't be surprised if Marshawn put on some weight (although looking at pictures, I don't think he's put on as much as you do; additionally, in one season McKinnon has put on weight too). I've addressed your assertion to just look at the players. They look very similar to me.

My point is this: you say that McKinnon isn't the weight that the scale says he is, and you're saying that he's not big enough to be an every down back. I've illustrated that he IS big enough using multiple examples of other players his size...not just Lynch.

You seem to be getting caught up on the fact that McKinnon doesn't run like Marshawn Lynch. That was never my point.

Ironically, I brought up Lynch to point out how preconceived notions dramatically affect how large (or small) people believe certain players to be.

I'm going to ask you to consider the point I'm making (McKinnon is big enough) instead of digging your heels in the ground that McKinnon isn't the same type of player that Marshawn Lynch is.