PacificNorseWest wrote:Satisfied with the pick. It all goes back to my full confidence and support for Zimmer.
The rest of the draft should be interesting.
That's my thought too. If the guy has the athletic tools and the right attitude I have confidence that Zimmer can fix the penalty/over-aggressiveness/sloppiness. In reality those kinds of things are the only things coaches really have a shot at fixing anyway.
I think it's interesting that the person that a lot of people wanted instead (Peters) is actually the 3rd CB off the board. Looks like the Vikings weren't the only team that thought he wasn't the best (or even second best) option.
Cliff wrote:
That's my thought too. If the guy has the athletic tools and the right attitude I have confidence that Zimmer can fix the penalty/over-aggressiveness/sloppiness. In reality those kinds of things are the only things coaches really have a shot at fixing anyway.
I think it's interesting that the person that a lot of people wanted instead (Peters) is actually the 3rd CB off the board. Looks like the Vikings weren't the only team that thought he wasn't the best (or even second best) option.
He managed to check several boxes on the list of concerns that can drop a player in the draft: academic issues, insubordination (leading to him being kicked off the team last year), a failed drug test...
He might have been the most talented CB in the draft but he represented a potential headache some teams probably didn't want. After what happened with Harvin, I can certainly understand why Spielman might not be crazy about drafting a player like Peters.
I think Zimmer and Jerry Gray (the Vikes DB coach) will be able to help Waynes reduce the "grabby" penalties and improve his tackling. The latter is primarily a matter of technique since Waynes is a willing tackler. It's probably a lot easier to improve the run defense of a corner who is more than willing to mix it up in the running game than to improve the run defense of a corner who's reluctant to be physical.
I think Waynes will benefit from some time in the Vikes strength and conditioning program too.
After sleeping on it I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much the Waynes pick that bothers me (though I still think there are corners with more upside), but the frustration of the talent drop-off from the top-7 picks and the next 20. The board fell like it probably had to and the Vikings unfortunately weren't able to secure a player at the top that I'd consider an elite talent OR trade back to acquire more picks, both of which were my preference to Waynes.
I may be jumping to conclusions here but Waynes, to me, is not the talent that guys picked at 11 (or later) in previous drafts, though that's no fault of his own. A few recent examples:
Odell Beckham, Jr.
Aaron Donald
Kyle Fuller
Ryan Shazier
Zack Martin
C. J. Mosley
Sheldon Richardson
Star Lotulelei
Kyle Long
Xavier Rhodes
DeAndre Hopkins
Fletcher Cox
Chandler Jones
J. J. Watt
Robert Quinn
Cameron Jordan
That said, there really hasn't been an elite, round-1 corner that has come out in quite some time. Other than Rhodes and Joe Hayden, Patrick Peterson, Kyle Fuller and Janoris Jenkins may be the best examples in recent years. We'll see if Waynes will be another Rhodes or another Milliner/Claiborne.
I'll be rooting for him and he seems like a guy that takes well to coaching, which is good because Zimmer has already said he has technique issues to correct. IF he can be an asset, it will go a long way. We haven't had the secondary as a position of strength and depth in YEARS, which is why it's been so difficult to unseat the Packers and why the other teams in the division have been so difficult.
Can't wait to see who the Vikings select today!
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
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But that was so terrible at the beginning it should be better. That penalty against miami was on a 3rd and 14 when Miami was down at the end of the game. That was a killer penalty. It was against Wallace, so I guess that can't happen again outside of practice [/quote]
It was also a bad call IMO
VikingLord wrote:Waynes was the logical choice and the only other guy on the board that I could have seen them going with was Parker. In my view it was a wash between the two. Zimmer has proven he knows how to get the best out of defensive players and I doubt he'd agree to take a player if he had doubts.
Zimm especially knows how to get the best out of corners. Let's not forget that.
As for the penalties and grabbing, college rules are different than the NFL. Waynes simply played the way he was coached at MSU. Zimmer & company will straighten that out.
Mike Mayock said last night that Waynes plays a lot like Richard Sherman.
I love the pick. We should be solid on both corners for the first time in, like, decades.
I feel very indifferent about the pick, and so far the offseason as a whole. I don't hate what they have done, but nothing has really impressed me either. Last year, I felt very strongly about many of the moves made in Free Agency and Draft. It wasn't a sexy pick, but I think everyone can agree that it has been a spot in need of improvement for a long time, and having just Rhodes wasn't enough. Time will tell if Trae is that guy.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Zimm especially knows how to get the best out of corners. Let's not forget that.
... or that DB coach Jerry Gray was a 4 time Pro Bowl player at the position himself and has many years of experience coaching defenses and defensive backs in the NFL. Waynes will be in good hands.
I love the pick. We should be solid on both corners for the first time in, like, decades.
That looks like the plan and if it works out, it's going open up other possibilities for the defense and it could make last year's pick, Anthony Barr, even more effective as a blitzer. You can see the plan for the defense beginning to come together.
Mothman wrote:
... or that DB coach Jerry Gray was a 4 time Pro Bowl player at the position himself and has many years of experience coaching defenses and defensive backs in the NFL. Waynes will be in good hands.
That looks like the plan and if it works out, it's going open up other possibilities for the defense and it could make last year's pick, Anthony Barr, even more effective as a blitzer. You can see the plan for the defense beginning to come together.
It's looking good.
I am, however, concerned about linebacker. We don't have a ton of talent there beyond Barr, and we have very little quality depth. Hopefully we address that in the rounds to come.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:Zimm especially knows how to get the best out of corners. Let's not forget that.
Yes, he has a good track record with them but he's not infallible. Dre Kirkpatrick hasn't had a very good career to date.
Mike Mayock said last night that Waynes plays a lot like Richard Sherman.
If he turned out to be the next Richard Sherman that would be amazing. Or even a top-10 corner. I'd take that.
I love the pick. We should be solid on both corners for the first time in, like, decades.
I hope so. That'd be crazy. Though if that comes to fruition I wonder how long we'd be able to keep the pair together before the $$ start to catch up to the position.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
It would sure make me happy to pick up Kendricks on day 2. I think it might be too much to ask for him to last for another 12 picks though. Some LB needy teams draft before us.
The Vikings play two of the most dynamic offenses in the NFL twice a season in divisional rivals Green Bay and Detroit, which boast physical receivers and prolific quarterbacks in Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford, respectively.
"I can't wait to go up against all of them. They're really great players," Waynes said. "They're just going to elevate my game and make me a better player overall. I can't wait to step in and make an impact."
Michigan State co-defensive coordinator Harlon Barnett said he expected his protege to go to the Vikings, who diligently vetted Waynes throughout the offseason.
"He earned it, and he's going to do well," said Barnett, who played 31 games at defensive back for the Vikings in 1995-96. "He will give them everything he has. He has toughness. He's going to play hard, play physical and he's going to compete to win."
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
CB tandem is now one of the highest ceilings in the league.
I am excited for Round 2 as there are a lot of good players and quality depth with a couple starters can be found.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:Absolutely love this pick. It was down to him and Parker for me but with the Bears drafting White, I leaned towards Waynes. We have one legit defensive backfield now!!!
I couldn't agree more. The Vikings are doing a heck of a job building up the D secondary. It can't all be done overnight, but no doubt they're bringing in talent.
The big positive about Waynes is the 4.3 speed in conjunction with his size. Our defense will be able to handle speedsters as well as the more physical types (via Rhodes) once Waynes get his game going. On paper this is arguably one of the best young CB tandems in the NFL.
The big knock I've read on Waynes is that he is "grabby" and that will draw flags in the NFL. I'm sure it will take him some time to really get it going, but this is plays to the strengths of Zimmer in his ability to coach secondary players. Great pick and it seems like a great fit for the Vikes.
If Waynes can get off to a fast start we are going to have a fantastic defensive backfield. I'm hoping they grab an upgrade at ILB tonight.
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi
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