NDVikeFan wrote: It was 3-13 midway through the 2nd quarter. Game wasn't hopeless. Vikings record yesterday was 1-1. Season wasn't hopeless either.
Either your trolling or just a being poor fan IMO.
Actually to reinforce your point, it was 9-13 at the end of the 3rd Quarter, and the Vikes had just sacked Brees for a 9-yard loss to the New Orleans 23 to force a 4th-and-22 and a punt ... which would have yielded decent field position to begin the 4th quarter and a chance to take the lead. But wait, here comes Mr. NFL Referee with his yellow flag to rescue the Damsel in Distress Drew Brees ....
Leafman wrote:
Actually to reinforce your point, it was 9-13 at the end of the 3rd Quarter, and the Vikes had just sacked Brees for a 9-yard loss to the New Orleans 23 to force a 4th-and-22 and a punt ... which would have yielded decent field position to begin the 4th quarter and a chance to take the lead. But wait, here comes Mr. NFL Referee with his yellow flag to rescue the Damsel in Distress Drew Brees ....
LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN
Unfortunately, I think it was the right call of a bad rule. Until someone comes along with an old school football league where, among other things QBs are actually considered football players too, our choices are to watch what the NFL has to offer or not. I guess at this point I have come to realize there is no point in getting upset about the silly rules and the nature of the game today. Its not what it used to be and its not going to be. I would drop the NFL in a heartbeat if a competitor arose using the rules of the game from anytime between the early 90's all the way back to the games beginnings. I don't even care if the players are only half or 1/4 as talented...I would still prefer that league. Maybe one day it will happen. But until then, tapping a QB in the head, driving him into the ground, or even tackling him too hard are going to result in 15 yard penalties. And who the QB is will have some affect on that as well. See Anthony Barr plant Austin Davis' chest into the ground in week 1 with no flag. Its a shame but if we can't accept reality we will go crazy...or at least I will. It drives me nuts and I want an alternative but there currently is none.
fiestavike wrote: Unfortunately, I think it was the right call of a bad rule. Until someone comes along with an old school football league where, among other things QBs are actually considered football players too, our choices are to watch what the NFL has to offer or not. I guess at this point I have come to realize there is no point in getting upset about the silly rules and the nature of the game today. Its not what it used to be and its not going to be. I would drop the NFL in a heartbeat if a competitor arose using the rules of the game from anytime between the early 90's all the way back to the games beginnings. I don't even care if the players are only half or 1/4 as talented...I would still prefer that league. Maybe one day it will happen. But until then, tapping a QB in the head, driving him into the ground, or even tackling him too hard are going to result in 15 yard penalties. And who the QB is will have some affect on that as well. See Anthony Barr plant Austin Davis' chest into the ground in week 1 with no flag. Its a shame but if we can't accept reality we will go crazy...or at least I will. It drives me nuts and I want an alternative but there currently is none.
Munnerlyn had no choice. The whistle hadn't blown, he had to bring Brees down, and given his body position relative to Brees, he had only one way to bring him down ... flat on to his back. Which really puts the defense in a no-win ... without an "in the grasp" rule, what is he supposed to do, just hold on to him without trying to drag him down and risk him throwing a dump-off to an RB or TE who then gains 15 yards?? We would crucify Munnerlyn in that case for not finishing the play.
And AT MINIMUM, Brees should have been flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for his b.s. after getting taken down. This league protects it's prima donna QBs at the expense of league integrity in the outcome of its contests, and that's just wrong.
Leafman wrote:
Munnerlyn had no choice. The whistle hadn't blown, he had to bring Brees down, and given his body position relative to Brees, he had only one way to bring him down ... flat on to his back. Which really puts the defense in a no-win ... without an "in the grasp" rule, what is he supposed to do, just hold on to him without trying to drag him down and risk him throwing a dump-off to an RB or TE who then gains 15 yards?? We would crucify Munnerlyn in that case for not finishing the play.
And AT MINIMUM, Brees should have been flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for his b.s. after getting taken down. This league protects it's prima donna QBs at the expense of league integrity in the outcome of its contests, and that's just wrong.
LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN
As I said, I think its a silly rule, but Munnerlyn will be flagged on that 100 times out of 100. I agree with all of your points. the whistle hadn't blown, its possible brees could have shoveled the ball to pierre thomas, or that Thomas could have moved in and taken a handoff from Brees. There are any number of plays that the Saints might possibly have made on that play even once Brees was in the grasp. Its not fair to the defender, but fair doesn't really factor into it. if you drive the QB (especially a premier qb) into the ground its a 15 yard penalty.
As for Brees being flagged, I agree with that too. He should have been. But as a premier QB he's not going to be.
This is what I'm saying...we just have to accept this or stop watching the NFL cause its not going to change for the better.
Leafman wrote:Munnerlyn had no choice. The whistle hadn't blown, he had to bring Brees down, and given his body position relative to Brees, he had only one way to bring him down ... flat on to his back. Which really puts the defense in a no-win ... without an "in the grasp" rule, what is he supposed to do, just hold on to him without trying to drag him down and risk him throwing a dump-off to an RB or TE who then gains 15 yards?? We would crucify Munnerlyn in that case for not finishing the play.
There actually is an "in the grasp"rule. Officials just seem to forget about it. The whistle probably should have been blown sooner on that play.
Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.
Munnerlyn had Brees' arms pinned so there was very little chance Brees was going to dump a pass off to anybody. Blanton was there too so Brees wasn't going anywhere. I know most Vikes fans hate the call but what Munnerlyn did was unnecessary roughness. He had Brees under his control and he had help. It wasn't necessary to forcibly twist around and slam him to the ground. In that situation he would have been better off hanging onto him and waiting for a whistle.
We may not like it but that's NFL football in the 21st century.
fiestavike wrote:
That's the bottom line...and for the record I don't like it!
I liked it best in the '70s which should tell you all you need to know in regard to my feelings about the current rules and the way the game is officiated now.
So next time someone has a QB in the 'grasp' and the whistle hasn't blown (I haven't heard a single Viking say they even heard the whistle or saw a flag) they should let him go? He just tackled Brees. When Blanton also hit him, you can see Captain letting up. New rules or not, there was nothing in that play that was un-sportsman like. Until Brees got up and shoved (and looked like he tried to throw a punch) at Blanton, who wasn't even the guy who sacked him.
Do you also agree what Brees did was legal? The ref had to get between him and the running away Blanton.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:So next time someone has a QB in the 'grasp' and the whistle hasn't blown (I haven't heard a single Viking say they even heard the whistle or saw a flag) they should let him go?
Of course not.
Until Brees got up and shoved (and looked like he tried to throw a punch) at Blanton, who wasn't even the guy who sacked him.
Do you also agree what Brees did was legal? The ref had to get between him and the running away Blanton.
I think the refs cut him some slack because he was understandably incensed by what happened. A lot of post-play pushing and shoving in the NFL goes uncalled.
What I really think is that the play isn't worthy of all the complaining and I wonder how much of the outrage is leftover resentment from the 2009 NFCC game. As I said in the game thread, I have no doubt that if Bridgewater had been slammed to the ground like that by a Saints defender, and there been no flag, we'd have just as much of an outcry here about how it should have been called a penalty.
Apart from the poor start where it did look like it was going to get ugly really quick I think we can take a lot out of that game on the defensive side of the ball, Brees was put under a lot of pressure and the Saints scored the lowest amount of points in the 3 games so far this season.
Unfortunately we can't give teams 13/14 pt head starts and expect to win but the adjustments that were made defensively after the poor start are a reason for optimism along with the pressure we put Brees under..... and the flag for the MUNNERLYN tackle was a joke...
chicagopurple wrote:over the past 3 yrs it seems like our secondary HAS improved. Our special teams coverage has improved. A lot of that can be attributed to bringing in the right talent. We have moved upward in regards to WR but then we were so bad there that my daughter could have drafted WRs and improved the situation! Our DL/OL on the other hand, has not been handled very well, esp OL. Our QB situation has been horrific and now MAYBE we have a potential QB. Bit I don't think we are grooming Teddy for success by suddenly making him a starter. It makes no sense. It all is very seat of your pants management. He should be on the side lines, watching Ponder (yeah that vision makes me sick to!) and learning how NOT to play QB. No RB, not much of an OL, and a first year coach is NOT a good recipe for success. Ponder needed to be on the active list.
Not sure anyone learns anything from how NOT to play. That's a good one.
Mothman wrote: As I said in the game thread, I have no doubt that if Bridgewater had been slammed to the ground like that by a Saints defender, and there been no flag, we'd have just as much of an outcry here about how it should have been called a penalty.
Not from me ... I don't cry about Vikings getting tackled perfectly legally before the whistle is blown.
And it's not just Vikings fans ... the FOX commentators called it "ticky tacky", and NBC and ESPN blogs have both cited a "questionable" call as a big momentum game-changer.
Overall I was pretty proud of the Vikings yesterday. They could have, and often times have folded in similar situations. What I thought was going to be a 50-10 type game had a little intrigue as it turned out. It's looking ugly now, but I think we have the coaching now to be able to roll with the punches to a degree, and this team showed backbone yesterday.
Leafman wrote:
Munnerlyn had no choice. The whistle hadn't blown, he had to bring Brees down, and given his body position relative to Brees, he had only one way to bring him down ... flat on to his back. Which really puts the defense in a no-win ... without an "in the grasp" rule, what is he supposed to do, just hold on to him without trying to drag him down and risk him throwing a dump-off to an RB or TE who then gains 15 yards?? We would crucify Munnerlyn in that case for not finishing the play.
And AT MINIMUM, Brees should have been flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for his b.s. after getting taken down. This league protects it's prima donna QBs at the expense of league integrity in the outcome of its contests, and that's just wrong.
LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN
At worst, the sack and the NFL darling Brees tirade should have been offsetting penalties.
Leafman wrote:
Not from me ... I don't cry about Vikings getting tackled perfectly legally before the whistle is blown.
And it's not just Vikings fans ... the FOX commentators called it "ticky tacky", and NBC and ESPN blogs have both cited a "questionable" call as a big momentum game-changer.
The announcers also said that we all know you can't do that to a QB in today's NFL. Questionable or not, the call was made and at this point, it's just spilled milk. I already told you how I feel about the change in momentum. The Vikes needed to seize the momentum back and they didn't do it. That's on them. They weren't victimized and unjustly handed a loss in this game. They were outplayed over the course of 4 quarters.
