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This line of conversation started because I said, I hope Spielman doesn't draft the way he has for the past 2 years. Not having those extra picks this year, would to me, make it pretty painful if we gave away our early picks to move up for another 1st rounder.Mothman wrote: Ah, but they had the supplemental picks and they were undoubtedly a part of Spielman's thought process when drafting.
I understand that but he had those supplemental picks so, as I said, they were undoubtedly a part of his thought process. They gave him flexibility and he used it. I think it's become very clear that he likes that flexibility and wants extra picks in each draft for that reason. He's already expressed a desire to add a few more picks this year. If he doesn't have the flexibility to make the kind of moves he's made the last two years, maybe he won't make them.KSViking wrote: This line of conversation started because I said, I hope Spielman doesn't draft the way he has for the past 2 years. Not having those extra picks this year, would to me, make it pretty painful if we gave away our early picks to move up for another 1st rounder.
KSViking wrote:I don't discount punters and kickers, but usually only 2-3 of them get drafted per year, because most aren't good enough to make it in the pros. When you draft one, they are rarely a bust. I just don't see most of them as a huge upgrade over what you would have had the year before. And, we won't be drafting any kicker/punter this year, so you won't be able to pull an easy "good player" out of one of those positions.
Walsh either counts or he doesn't.Mauti and Hodges are unproven. Cole looked okay when he played last year but I'd say the jury is still out on him. After just one or two seasons, the jury is going to be out on most young players but that means we can't yet tell if they're good players or not, which means we also can't rule them out as good players yet.Yes, Good Player is subjective. I don't know how you really measure it, outside of playing time, and how well they perform with said playing time. Many of these guys only have played special teams, or they are a backup to an established player. All of these Linebackers we have taken in the later rounds are part of the reasoning that most on this board agree the Vikings LB Corps as a whole was probably one of the worst in the NFL. I would have a hard time making an argument that these players are good players, if their contribution puts us a the bottom.
This is not true. In the past 10 years, 44 specialists have been drafted, which is an average of over 4 specialists drafted each year. Of those 44, 15 of them have been out of the NFL for at least 2 years. That's only the players that have not stayed in the league though, beyond that, many of these players only lasted a few years, if that long, with the team that drafted them. And of course I didn't compare any of their statistics over this time.KSViking wrote:I don't discount punters and kickers, but usually only 2-3 of them get drafted per year, because most aren't good enough to make it in the pros. When you draft one, they are rarely a bust.
The fact that statistically wise over the past 4 years, over 20 kickers have been in the top 10, tells me that there is a lot more involved. Blair Walsh went from having top stats his rookie year, to being 13th last year. I wouldn't think he is declining? my point remains, that there are so many good kickers, and Walsh had an amazing first season. But there isn't alot that seperates most of them from one another. Very few are consistently in the top 5/10 statistically wise. There are some bad kickers, there are some more consistant kickers, but I would still argue that its somehow difficult to find and draft a good kicker.saint33 wrote: This is not true. In the past 10 years, 44 specialists have been drafted, which is an average of over 4 specialists drafted each year. Of those 44, 15 of them have been out of the NFL for at least 2 years. That's only the players that have not stayed in the league though, beyond that, many of these players only lasted a few years, if that long, with the team that drafted them. And of course I didn't compare any of their statistics over this time.
Drafting kickers or punters is no guarantee that you'll get a good one, and drafting one that is a Pro Bowl player and All Pro in his rookie season is a rarity. There is no reason to discount Blair Walsh
I don't necessarily disagree with you about Simpson being #3, but Simpson was 2nd by WR for receiving yards. Jennings ended up with more than him. Simpson seemed to be Ponder's favorite to throw to, but not Cassels.mosscarter wrote:honestly what planet are you people on? simpson as a 4th receiver???? it will be patterson, jennings, and simpson. what would make you think any differently??? lets fact it wright stinks, end of story. to say simpson is a 4th when he had more yards than anyone is absurd.
Wright stinks?? I would love to hear your reasoning behind that onemosscarter wrote:honestly what planet are you people on? simpson as a 4th receiver???? it will be patterson, jennings, and simpson. what would make you think any differently??? lets fact it wright stinks, end of story. to say simpson is a 4th when he had more yards than anyone is absurd.
Hard to put up monster numbers when he's not a starter.mosscarter wrote:3 years of sub par production at best. jennings can play the slot wright is useless.