Vikings Message Board.Com

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:21 pm Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
Soon-to-be Vikings HC Kevin O'Connell conveyed a firm belief in Kirk Cousins during the interview process, I'm told. He's high on him. The front office must decide on Cousins' future due to his $45M cap hit, but many coaches interviewing for job liked Cousins, O'Connell included

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:39 pm

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:21 pm Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
Soon-to-be Vikings HC Kevin O'Connell conveyed a firm belief in Kirk Cousins during the interview process, I'm told. He's high on him. The front office must decide on Cousins' future due to his $45M cap hit, but many coaches interviewing for job liked Cousins, O'Connell included

The real question with Cousins isn't going to be necessarily what happens with him this coming season, but what the Vikings do at QB beyond this season that I'm interested in seeing. The answer to that question will come with what the Vikings do both in terms of Cousins' contract as well as at the QB position in the draft and/or public statements made about Mond's future with the team. If there is no extension for Cousins and we start hearing glowing reports about Mond's offseason progress after mini-camps and the draft, that would suggest that while the Vikings may be content to stick with Cousins for this coming season they will try to move on from him. If they make a move at QB in the upcoming draft, that would indicate they would like to move on from both Cousins and Mond.

Personally, I think they should try to find a true franchise QB if they can. I don't think Cousins is that guy and I don't think KOC is going to fundamentally alter that fact regardless of how great he may be as a head coach. I mean, if KOC can come in here and make Cousins a franchise QB at this stage of his career, then there is no doubt the Vikings made maybe the best hire of this century at head coach.

Even before Zimmer and Spielman were fired I had accepted that Cousins was going to be around for another year. I doubt that would be materially different if Harbaugh were hired as the head coach, either. The Vikings just won't be in a position to win with either Mond or a rookie at QB, so it makes sense to stick with Cousins barring a trade, and I think Cousins will be extremely difficult to trade with his contract as-is.

I will say this though - barring some miraculous change in Cousins' performance under KOC, I hope they move on from him ASAP. He is not the future at QB any more than Zimmer was the future at head coach. If the Vikings are going for a youth movement of untested, untried potential stars at GM and head coach, they should complete the trifecta and go for the same at QB. If it's not Mond, then make a move for one they like in this year's draft. Sitting at #12, they're in position to do that if there is a guy they like, and this is a great year to do it too because the QB class isn't considered great and there are a lot of guys at other positions that are going to be chosen in those first 11 picks. If they don't feel like Mond is the future starter, then this is the perfect time to take a swing at a guy who can be if they decide they like the prospect enough. He can still sit and learn behind Cousins for a year which should help him develop and be ready to take the reins in 2023.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:09 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:39 pm

The real question with Cousins isn't going to be necessarily what happens with him this coming season, but what the Vikings do at QB beyond this season that I'm interested in seeing. The answer to that question will come with what the Vikings do both in terms of Cousins' contract as well as at the QB position in the draft and/or public statements made about Mond's future with the team. If there is no extension for Cousins and we start hearing glowing reports about Mond's offseason progress after mini-camps and the draft, that would suggest that while the Vikings may be content to stick with Cousins for this coming season they will try to move on from him. If they make a move at QB in the upcoming draft, that would indicate they would like to move on from both Cousins and Mond.

Personally, I think they should try to find a true franchise QB if they can. I don't think Cousins is that guy and I don't think KOC is going to fundamentally alter that fact regardless of how great he may be as a head coach. I mean, if KOC can come in here and make Cousins a franchise QB at this stage of his career, then there is no doubt the Vikings made maybe the best hire of this century at head coach.

Even before Zimmer and Spielman were fired I had accepted that Cousins was going to be around for another year. I doubt that would be materially different if Harbaugh were hired as the head coach, either. The Vikings just won't be in a position to win with either Mond or a rookie at QB, so it makes sense to stick with Cousins barring a trade, and I think Cousins will be extremely difficult to trade with his contract as-is.

I will say this though - barring some miraculous change in Cousins' performance under KOC, I hope they move on from him ASAP. He is not the future at QB any more than Zimmer was the future at head coach. If the Vikings are going for a youth movement of untested, untried potential stars at GM and head coach, they should complete the trifecta and go for the same at QB. If it's not Mond, then make a move for one they like in this year's draft. Sitting at #12, they're in position to do that if there is a guy they like, and this is a great year to do it too because the QB class isn't considered great and there are a lot of guys at other positions that are going to be chosen in those first 11 picks. If they don't feel like Mond is the future starter, then this is the perfect time to take a swing at a guy who can be if they decide they like the prospect enough. He can still sit and learn behind Cousins for a year which should help him develop and be ready to take the reins in 2023.

I wonder if KOC is just saying “all the right things” (publicly).

At this moment, Cousins is a Viking. He’s under contract. So publicly, he’s got to treat things that way. But gosh, with so many teams either having no quarterback or badly needing an upgrade, there’s never been a better seller’s market. I know I sound like an infomercial, but it’s the truth. And I have to believe KAM and KOC know the score. Maybe they’re talking up Cousins to jack up his perceived value.

And besides, do we really think Kirk Cousins is going to take a pay cut so that we don’t end up in this same predicament 2-3 years from now?

40for60 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:09 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:09 pm
I wonder if KOC is just saying “all the right things” (publicly).

At this moment, Cousins is a Viking. He’s under contract. So publicly, he’s got to treat things that way. But gosh, with so many teams either having no quarterback or badly needing an upgrade, there’s never been a better seller’s market. I know I sound like an infomercial, but it’s the truth. And I have to believe KAM and KOC know the score. Maybe they’re talking up Cousins to jack up his perceived value.

And besides, do we really think Kirk Cousins is going to take a pay cut so that we don’t end up in this same predicament 2-3 years from now?

As I understand it, a big problem with that $45M is that his contracts were fully guaranteed. I am not sure any of that can go away. I think you can renegotiate to kick the can down the road some more, and maybe he can take less of a salary for future years, but I still think eventually you still need to pay the $45M, be it all this year or spread out over 2-3 years. All of this cap hit stuff is confusing to me, so I might be wrong.

Anyway, I heard another option discussed on a couple of talk shows. Draft the QB of the future this year. Then swallow hard and take the entire cap hit this year. If by chance Cousins has an unbelievable year then you could give him a new more team friendly contract. Otherwise he can hit the road.

A trade would be ideal, but no team is going to take on that entire cap hit. Depending on what you get back from another team, it may not be worth it if you still have to pay a large portion, say $35M of the cap.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:13 am
There is no chance the Vikings let Cousins play 2022 with a $45 million cap hit. He’ll either be extended or traded. Also, no matter what, Cousins is going to count $10 million against the cap. That’s prorated bonus that can only go on the Vikings’ books. The only question is whether it’ll be dead cap.

And I absolutely, unequivocally disagree that the Vikings can’t find a trade partner. There are at least 8 teams that would consider Cousins a massive upgrade over what they have. Could the Vikings be required to pay some of his $35 million salary? Possibly. But that would also affect compensation in return. Vikings pick up more salary, they get back more in terms of draft position, and vice versa.

I don’t buy for one second that the Vikings are all-in on extending Cousins. That “KOC loves Cousins” info easily could have been leaked by the Vikings to drive up his perceived value.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:09 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:39 pm

The real question with Cousins isn't going to be necessarily what happens with him this coming season, but what the Vikings do at QB beyond this season that I'm interested in seeing. The answer to that question will come with what the Vikings do both in terms of Cousins' contract as well as at the QB position in the draft and/or public statements made about Mond's future with the team. If there is no extension for Cousins and we start hearing glowing reports about Mond's offseason progress after mini-camps and the draft, that would suggest that while the Vikings may be content to stick with Cousins for this coming season they will try to move on from him. If they make a move at QB in the upcoming draft, that would indicate they would like to move on from both Cousins and Mond.

Personally, I think they should try to find a true franchise QB if they can. I don't think Cousins is that guy and I don't think KOC is going to fundamentally alter that fact regardless of how great he may be as a head coach. I mean, if KOC can come in here and make Cousins a franchise QB at this stage of his career, then there is no doubt the Vikings made maybe the best hire of this century at head coach.

Even before Zimmer and Spielman were fired I had accepted that Cousins was going to be around for another year. I doubt that would be materially different if Harbaugh were hired as the head coach, either. The Vikings just won't be in a position to win with either Mond or a rookie at QB, so it makes sense to stick with Cousins barring a trade, and I think Cousins will be extremely difficult to trade with his contract as-is.

I will say this though - barring some miraculous change in Cousins' performance under KOC, I hope they move on from him ASAP. He is not the future at QB any more than Zimmer was the future at head coach. If the Vikings are going for a youth movement of untested, untried potential stars at GM and head coach, they should complete the trifecta and go for the same at QB. If it's not Mond, then make a move for one they like in this year's draft. Sitting at #12, they're in position to do that if there is a guy they like, and this is a great year to do it too because the QB class isn't considered great and there are a lot of guys at other positions that are going to be chosen in those first 11 picks. If they don't feel like Mond is the future starter, then this is the perfect time to take a swing at a guy who can be if they decide they like the prospect enough. He can still sit and learn behind Cousins for a year which should help him develop and be ready to take the reins in 2023.

I wonder if KOC is just saying “all the right things” (publicly).

At this moment, Cousins is a Viking. He’s under contract. So publicly, he’s got to treat things that way. But gosh, with so many teams either having no quarterback or badly needing an upgrade, there’s never been a better seller’s market. I know I sound like an infomercial, but it’s the truth. And I have to believe KAM and KOC know the score. Maybe they’re talking up Cousins to jack up his perceived value.

And besides, do we really think Kirk Cousins is going to take a pay cut so that we don’t end up in this same predicament 2-3 years from now?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:39 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:09 pm
I wonder if KOC is just saying “all the right things” (publicly).

At this moment, Cousins is a Viking. He’s under contract. So publicly, he’s got to treat things that way. But gosh, with so many teams either having no quarterback or badly needing an upgrade, there’s never been a better seller’s market. I know I sound like an infomercial, but it’s the truth. And I have to believe KAM and KOC know the score. Maybe they’re talking up Cousins to jack up his perceived value.

And besides, do we really think Kirk Cousins is going to take a pay cut so that we don’t end up in this same predicament 2-3 years from now?

I'm the biggest Kirk fan there is, but even I think he needs to take a bit of a pay cut to continue as the Vikings QB and I don't think he will get $35 million or more from anybody else. $30 Million would be just about right.

makila wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:31 pm Thought i posted this last night after the kirk talk.... guess i never hit submit.

They are publicly going to talk Kirk up, no matter what. First and foremost is to pump his value up if you are going to try and trade him. Second is that if you keep him, you want him happy. Lastly doing the opposite of Zimmer and past regime has value right now. Heh.

I am curious how much the guarantee aspect of his contract could be a hindrance in a potential trade. Completely out of my knowledge. If that were to end up being the catch on potentially moving him..Rick deserves a special thanks.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:15 pm

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:21 pm Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
Soon-to-be Vikings HC Kevin O'Connell conveyed a firm belief in Kirk Cousins during the interview process, I'm told. He's high on him. The front office must decide on Cousins' future due to his $45M cap hit, but many coaches interviewing for job liked Cousins, O'Connell included

As well they should. Cousins has always been a better QB than Stafford and Stafford was good enough to get the Rams to the SB this year.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:27 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:39 am
I'm the biggest Kirk fan there is, but even I think he needs to take a bit of a pay cut to continue as the Vikings QB and I don't think he will get $35 million or more from anybody else. $30 Million would be just about right.

Yes! We agree on something.

Now, set aside your Cousins fandom for just a moment. Think about this next question as only a Vikings fan.

If another team would take $30 million of his contract in a trade and send us a decent draft pick or two in return, say an early second-rounder or better, wouldn’t you have to take that offer seriously?

That takes the Vikings from $11 million over the cap to $19 million under — in just one move. Next, restructure some guys you believe are essential for continuity — maybe Thielen, Kendricks and Hunter — and move on from some others who aren’t — Barr, Pierce, Smith. Maybe free up another $15 million to $20 million. Now you’re pushing $40 million under the cap. That’s going to allow you to shore up some holes … interior O-line, corner, edge.

For short-term QB, pick up a bridge guy like Jameis Winston or even Gardner Minshew and let them mind the store for a year. Meanwhile, use some of that draft capital to get a guy like Malik Willis and develop him in that first year, with an eye on 2023.

I know that means we probably don’t contend in 2022. But do we really think simply running it back with all the same guys who have missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years is going to work?

Again, I’m asking you as a Vikings fan … can you see benefit in a plan like that? You don’t have to agree with it. But can you see benefit?

I just don’t think getting Kirk Cousins to drop his AAV by $5 million is going to move the needle. It’s not about what Kirk is worth. It’s about what is financially smart for the Minnesota Vikings to pay him.

Or, here’s another possibility …

If KAM and KOC believe Cousins is their guy, then get him to take a significantly lower AAV, maybe $20 million a year, but over a longer term, say another 5 years. He’d still make another $80 million to $100 million over the lifetime of the deal, plus he’d keep all the money from his previous contract. It also would give him security out to age 39, which no other team is going to give him, and it would take huge pressure off the Vikings’ cap situation. Cousins always wants to do short-term deals, but if he really wants to help the team, that would be a very fair way for him to do it.

What do you think?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:18 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:27 pm
Yes! We agree on something.

Now, set aside your Cousins fandom for just a moment. Think about this next question as only a Vikings fan.

If another team would take $30 million of his contract in a trade and send us a decent draft pick or two in return, say an early second-rounder or better, wouldn’t you have to take that offer seriously?

That takes the Vikings from $11 million over the cap to $19 million under — in just one move. Next, restructure some guys you believe are essential for continuity — maybe Thielen, Kendricks and Hunter — and move on from some others who aren’t — Barr, Pierce, Smith. Maybe free up another $15 million to $20 million. Now you’re pushing $40 million under the cap. That’s going to allow you to shore up some holes … interior O-line, corner, edge.

For short-term QB, pick up a bridge guy like Jameis Winston or even Gardner Minshew and let them mind the store for a year. Meanwhile, use some of that draft capital to get a guy like Malik Willis and develop him in that first year, with an eye on 2023.

I know that means we probably don’t contend in 2022. But do we really think simply running it back with all the same guys who have missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years is going to work?

Again, I’m asking you as a Vikings fan … can you see benefit in a plan like that? You don’t have to agree with it. But can you see benefit?

I just don’t think getting Kirk Cousins to drop his AAV by $5 million is going to move the needle. It’s not about what Kirk is worth. It’s about what is financially smart for the Minnesota Vikings to pay him.

Or, here’s another possibility …

If KAM and KOC believe Cousins is their guy, then get him to take a significantly lower AAV, maybe $20 million a year, but over a longer term, say another 5 years. He’d still make another $80 million to $100 million over the lifetime of the deal, plus he’d keep all the money from his previous contract. It also would give him security out to age 39, which no other team is going to give him, and it would take huge pressure off the Vikings’ cap situation. Cousins always wants to do short-term deals, but if he really wants to help the team, that would be a very fair way for him to do it.

What do you think?

If we are going to trade Kirk I don't see why the recipient gets a 5 million discount. They take on the full 35 million. Yes I'd have to consider a first round pick and the full salary coming off the books. I think getting Kirk for 20 million a year is a pipe dream. No way in hell. When we kept Barr at the last second I almost screamed in disappointment. We should have let him go to the Jets. Most of your ideas seem OK to me.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:56 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:18 am
If we are going to trade Kirk I don't see why the recipient gets a 5 million discount. They take on the full 35 million. Yes I'd have to consider a first round pick and the full salary coming off the books. I think getting Kirk for 20 million a year is a pipe dream. No way in hell. When we kept Barr at the last second I almost screamed in disappointment. We should have let him go to the Jets. Most of your ideas seem OK to me.

Understood.

I would encourage you to look beyond what you believe Cousins is worth. I get that you believe he's worth $30 million a year. I don't agree, but I won't argue the point. This is a tradeoff. Kirk gets more years and more financial security in exchange for a lower average annual value (AAV).

Cousins will be 34 before the 2022 season starts. Truth is, he's never going to command $20 million a year past the age of 35 (unless he's won a Super Bowl, which would change everything). Add the $35 million of this year to 4 years of $20 million per year, and you're actually giving him $115 million over 5 years, which is $23 million per year AAV, all the way through age 38. If he holds the line for this year at $35 million, what assurances after that does he have that he'll make anywhere near $80 million for the rest of his career? In 2023, he'll be 35. No matter how much you like Kirk, nobody is going to pay a 35-year-old non-SB-winning QB $30 million a year. And if the Vikings miss the playoffs in 2022? He might have trouble finding suitors in free agency.

That's what I'm saying. This is about security. I'm not saying Kirk is only worth $20 million a year. I'm saying he's worth $115 million over 5 years out to his age 39 year. That's actually a heck of a good deal for Cousins. I believe it's far better than if he continues on his "bet on myself" path he's taken throughout his career and demanding big contracts. At some point, all players age out of the NFL.

Also, if you convert some of his 2022 salary to bonus, you can pay a lot of it to him right away and spread the cap hit over 5 years. That means for 2022, he'll still be paid a lot. Likely still around $30 million in his pocket, with more security for the future.

I know you probably won't agree, but I hope you see my thought process is not as simple as $20 million a year. It's offering security to Cousins in exchange for cap relief that actually makes a difference.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:09 pm And besides, do we really think Kirk Cousins is going to take a pay cut so that we don’t end up in this same predicament 2-3 years from now?