Vikings Message Board.Com

allday1991 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:56 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:03 am
Yeah, this may be only the beginning. We're already seeing more coaches coming forward with sham interview allegations. It's a runback of the Me Too movement. Brian Flores has emboldened others, and I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon.

The idea of the Rooney rule itself sets up "sham" interviews, what else is going to happen if you force a employer to interview players based on a quota. If a team is already set in who they want and they have to meet a quota what options do they have? get fined by the league or make a "sham" interview and be labeled a racist? there quite handcuffed either way. A lot of time during these discussion people like to focus on the very top, why aren't head coaches black? I'm 100% sure 40 years ago there was obstacles that would of made it much harder for a black coach to succeed, however after 2003 30% of the leagues position coaches and coordinators were African American. That is a great change and only makes sense, if you want to increase minorities at the top you have to start at the bottom. Once you get more minority coach's in back up roles learning you will eventually increase the overall % of minority coaches, however this could take 50 plus years. "Flores" is a perfect example imo of never happy, he got beat out for the Texans HC job by a more qualified African American head coach, yet his lawyers are arguing this was only because of his legal stance with the league, craziness.

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:15 pm IMO. The Rooney Rule is crazy.

But IMO. It’s just as wrong to mandate a team to interview any coach, or GM of color, as it is not to hire a greater talent of a coach because of color.
Just look at who is best qualified for the job. Regardless .

I know that’s the ultimate desire, and my opinion just flows with it. It’s really unfortunate that it has to even be looked at.

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:54 am

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:15 pm IMO. The Rooney Rule is crazy.

But IMO. It’s just as wrong to mandate a team to interview any coach, or GM of color, as it is not to hire a greater talent of a coach because of color.
Just look at who is best qualified for the job. Regardless .

I know that’s the ultimate desire, and my opinion just flows with it. It’s really unfortunate that it has to even be looked at.

I agree the Rooney Rule is not good. It’s set up to DO good, but currently it’s not.

I compare it to the NCAA forcing high school hoopers to go to college. In theory I see the point, but it’s ruining the college game. Kids good enough to go to the NBA are a fraction of a percent. But force them to a school, make them play college hoops for one year, they’ll pretend to go to class, and then leave for the league.

In a perfect world the Rooney Rule wouldn’t be a thing. It wouldn’t need to be. People would just hire the best candidate. But either black people don’t want to coach, black people aren’t qualified to coach, or we have a problem. My guess is we have a problem. The numbers just don’t stack up. So they put a rule in place to alleviate the problem; but now we have a different set of problems.

I think it’ll work out at some point. I’m an optimist. But something needs to be done to ensure everyone regardless of race or sex is getting a shot.

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:23 am

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:54 am

I agree the Rooney Rule is not good. It’s set up to DO good, but currently it’s not.

I compare it to the NCAA forcing high school hoopers to go to college. In theory I see the point, but it’s ruining the college game. Kids good enough to go to the NBA are a fraction of a percent. But force them to a school, make them play college hoops for one year, they’ll pretend to go to class, and then leave for the league.

In a perfect world the Rooney Rule wouldn’t be a thing. It wouldn’t need to be. People would just hire the best candidate. But either black people don’t want to coach, black people aren’t qualified to coach, or we have a problem. My guess is we have a problem. The numbers just don’t stack up. So they put a rule in place to alleviate the problem; but now we have a different set of problems.

I think it’ll work out at some point. I’m an optimist. But something needs to be done to ensure everyone regardless of race or sex is getting a shot.

I agree VIM. In a perfect world. Unfortunately it’s not. It’s wrong for anyone to be discriminated against for any reason, race, sex, gender etc, any reason. It shouldn’t be. It’s just as wrong mandating any group or gender for any position as well. I suspect that privilege isabused as much as the other is... it’s sad that it’s this way.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:26 pm

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:23 am

I agree VIM. In a perfect world. Unfortunately it’s not. It’s wrong for anyone to be discriminated against for any reason, race, sex, gender etc, any reason. It shouldn’t be. It’s just as wrong mandating any group or gender for any position as well. I suspect that privilege isabused as much as the other is... it’s sad that it’s this way.

What is the likelihood that a woman would be the best candidate for a HC position in the NFL?

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:01 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:26 pm
What is the likelihood that a woman would be the best candidate for a HC position in the NFL?

Maybe not likely, but shouldn’t be held back because of it. hard part there is not having the playing experience. Locker room experience.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:17 am

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:01 am

Maybe not likely, but shouldn’t be held back because of it. hard part there is not having the playing experience. Locker room experience.

Right. I don't think there's a woman with NFL HC credentials.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:17 am

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:01 am

Maybe not likely, but shouldn’t be held back because of it. hard part there is not having the playing experience. Locker room experience.

Right. I don't think there's a woman with NFL HC credentials.

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:23 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:17 am
Right. I don't think there's a woman with NFL HC credentials.

There's not right now. Which is why there is so much work to be done. But we've already figured out one doesn't need playing experience to be a good head coach. There are brilliant minds that understand the game whether or not they played it or not. So as women keep getting opportunities, there is no reason it can't be done at some point.

Take someone like Mina Kimes. I'd bet my house that she knows more about NFL football than anyone on this board. She has had to fight obstacles along the way and is finally getting the respect she deserves as a woman that knows a ton about the game. She wouldn't have gotten that opportunity even 20 years ago.

When you google "top women football analysts or reporters" you know what shows up? Just a hundred links on who's the hottest. If there are sex tapes. Disgusting. Nothing about the job they are capable of doing and doing well. Until these women start getting respect for their knowledge and ability to do a job, we can always fall back on the idea that there are none with the credentials.

I think we're going in the right direction, and hopefully I see some more growth in this area in my lifetime.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:13 pm

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:23 pm
There's not right now. Which is why there is so much work to be done. But we've already figured out one doesn't need playing experience to be a good head coach. There are brilliant minds that understand the game whether or not they played it or not. So as women keep getting opportunities, there is no reason it can't be done at some point.

Take someone like Mina Kimes. I'd bet my house that she knows more about NFL football than anyone on this board. She has had to fight obstacles along the way and is finally getting the respect she deserves as a woman that knows a ton about the game. She wouldn't have gotten that opportunity even 20 years ago.

When you google "top women football analysts or reporters" you know what shows up? Just a hundred links on who's the hottest. If there are sex tapes. Disgusting. Nothing about the job they are capable of doing and doing well. Until these women start getting respect for their knowledge and ability to do a job, we can always fall back on the idea that there are none with the credentials.

I think we're going in the right direction, and hopefully I see some more growth in this area in my lifetime.

Here's the thing: who cares? Is this really an issue on which 'work must be done'? Is it really important that a woman be an NFL head coach someday?

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:44 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:13 pm

Here's the thing: who cares? Is this really an issue on which 'work must be done'? Is it really important that a woman be an NFL head coach someday?

I guess the issue of "who cares" likely depends on each person individually. If there are women capable, with aspirations of being a head coach, than I would assume they would care.

I suppose we could say that about anything. Who cares if women get opportunities? Who cares if minorities get opportunities? Hell, when blacks couldn't vote I'm sure there were plenty of people with the mindset, "who cares"?

Is it important that a women be head coach? No more important than anyone being a head coach. I guess there are many things that in the grand scheme of things aren't important. You could make a case that having ANY coach isn't important, or that the game of football isn't important.

Now, if you're asking me if I think it's important that qualified people are given opportunities regardless of their sex or race; then yes, I'd say it's important and I care. One of my former teammates has a daughter working her way up the coaching ranks right now. Started in high school, and of course had to deal with adversity being a women coach. Last year she landed an assistant position at an FCS school. A tremendous accomplishment but still has to hear remarks and naysaying from others. What could a woman possibly know about coaching football right? Apparently she has aspirations of one day coaching in the NFL. I'm a former player and I'd say that she currently has a better understanding of the game than myself. I would hate for her to not get the opportunity simply because she's a woman, or that she "doesn't have the credentials", or because "who cares", or more importantly because "does it really matter if she coaches in the NFL someday".

I guess I'm just a guy that wants better for everyone, and wants everyone opportunities to do what they want to do if they work hard and are qualified. So yes, I guess I care.

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:54 am

Foreman44 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:15 pm IMO. The Rooney Rule is crazy.

But IMO. It’s just as wrong to mandate a team to interview any coach, or GM of color, as it is not to hire a greater talent of a coach because of color.
Just look at who is best qualified for the job. Regardless .

I know that’s the ultimate desire, and my opinion just flows with it. It’s really unfortunate that it has to even be looked at.

I agree the Rooney Rule is not good. It’s set up to DO good, but currently it’s not.

I compare it to the NCAA forcing high school hoopers to go to college. In theory I see the point, but it’s ruining the college game. Kids good enough to go to the NBA are a fraction of a percent. But force them to a school, make them play college hoops for one year, they’ll pretend to go to class, and then leave for the league.

In a perfect world the Rooney Rule wouldn’t be a thing. It wouldn’t need to be. People would just hire the best candidate. But either black people don’t want to coach, black people aren’t qualified to coach, or we have a problem. My guess is we have a problem. The numbers just don’t stack up. So they put a rule in place to alleviate the problem; but now we have a different set of problems.

I think it’ll work out at some point. I’m an optimist. But something needs to be done to ensure everyone regardless of race or sex is getting a shot.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:51 am

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:54 am

I agree the Rooney Rule is not good. It’s set up to DO good, but currently it’s not.

I compare it to the NCAA forcing high school hoopers to go to college. In theory I see the point, but it’s ruining the college game. Kids good enough to go to the NBA are a fraction of a percent. But force them to a school, make them play college hoops for one year, they’ll pretend to go to class, and then leave for the league.

In a perfect world the Rooney Rule wouldn’t be a thing. It wouldn’t need to be. People would just hire the best candidate. But either black people don’t want to coach, black people aren’t qualified to coach, or we have a problem. My guess is we have a problem. The numbers just don’t stack up. So they put a rule in place to alleviate the problem; but now we have a different set of problems.

I think it’ll work out at some point. I’m an optimist. But something needs to be done to ensure everyone regardless of race or sex is getting a shot.

Every day I'm on this board, I find myself more in agreement with the things you say.

It is incredibly unfortunate that we have marginalized people of color, women, etc. for so long. It's a crime, really. My wife is one of the smartest, most capable leaders I've ever known, yet she's faced misogyny from the beginning of her career right up until now, when she's close to retirement. She has seen the good-old-boy system in action for four decades, and even though she's accomplished amazing things, it's nothing compared to what she's capable of accomplishing. What she could have accomplished if not for the belief that she's inferior to men simply because she's not a man.

But here's the thing. These things have been going on for centuries. Slavery has been part of human existence since the fall of Adam and Eve. Women have been set behind men for thousands of years. So while that's all very, very wrong, it's also not something that can be changed overnight. Generations have to pass where these things are considered immoral. Even though racism and misogyny are not as prevalent as they were, say, 50 years ago, there are still parents who teach their kids that people of color are inferior, and that women belong in the kitchen and the bedroom. It's going to take time, probably another 2 or 3 generations, for real substantive progress to be made.

However, that doesn't mean meritocracy is a myth. Meritocracy is something we should strive for. It's something that decision-makers can control. If we simply bury our heads in the sand and say, "Society doesn't abide by meritocracy, therefore I won't," then we're doomed to continue giving important roles to people who haven't earned them. To call meritocracy a myth perpetuates the problem.

As my wife always tells me, if you want to see change, you have to be the change.