He's young and innovative and successful! (his team is in the Superbowl!)
He's on a team that's playing in the Super Bowl. Two words I checked. So if getting hired by a successful team is success he's got it. If it is in any way a result of him helping them get there I see no evidence of that.
You don't think the offensive coordinator of a team going to the Super Bowl had anything to do with that offense and the team getting there?!
I can assure you he played a HUGE roll in them getting there. And I can say with certainty the work he puts in and his game planning for every opponent did too.
What are your thoughts on the Bengals hire? Obviously it looks great now, being one of the worst teams in the NFL last year and going to the big game this season. He was a QB coach for the Rams before landing that job. I assume that was a terrible hire as well as not only didn't he call plays, but he wasn't even a coordinator in the NFL before the Bengals brought him on board.
I bet they are happy with their coach hire. As well as their drafting of Joe Burrow. They look smart.
CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:22 am
Collaboration that is used every time a guy is hired. That's an old buzz word that has been recycled around the Vikings because IMO Rick and Zim never communicated. No team will ever say we will work in individual silos. Of course Zim has a tear in his beer and claims him and Rick haven't talked in months. When you make a huge investment in a FA QB that cry baby Zim claims he never wanted and that Teddy was his guy just shows they weren't communicating. Teddy could have been claimed for nothing because no team really wants him as there starter. He's a show stopper. He's available every year and you can get him for a song and a dance. As a team we had to cough up big CAP space for Kirk because unlike Teddy there where other teams in the pipeline fighting for his services. I actually like this hire. But I am also so sick of Zim's early 70s style of football that they could have brought back Childress and I would have been happy. In Zim's view the worst thing to do in a football game is put the ball up. You need to keep the attempts below 20 and ideally below 10 just like Shula's early 70s teams. Otherwise you have very little chance of winning. Play great D and ST while running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Zim never built a dominate D and his ST were always crap. Never had a clutch FG kicker. This year PATs were impossible to make and FGs?. What is that? I like this choice more so than Harbourgh.
Collaboration equals triangle of authority. It wasn't successful then and I see no reason for it to be successful now.
The triangle also included Zygi and it was a disaster. But it was something different just like what they are doing now. This seems to be a game for the Wilf's. Let's face it it's better than some fantasy BS which I have zero interest in and they don't either. This is the real deal. They made the investment and so far it has been a great investment for the family. It also gives them something to do for fun. But I do feel they want to win. They are successful people and are fans of the sport. Having the bragging rights of being champions or even having a rock solid org is key for them. I think Rick was in good with them but he made some bad moves that really pissed them off. This latest CB pick who was axed from the team and not picking Jones a rookie playoff QB was the final straw. Now he has to listen to Kraft busting his balls how Rick let that slip past him. It's unlikely that all this will be successful but it can't be much worse than the crap show we have been watching. I'm sure the Wilf's have some outside people that have looked at the entire org and they are making decisions based on the findings. That is why I think our new GM is more of a big picture thinker than a football person. IMO if the thinker gets the right pieces in place it could work out. If not it's back to the drawing board.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:31 am
He's on a team that's playing in the Super Bowl. Two words I checked. So if getting hired by a successful team is success he's got it. If it is in any way a result of him helping them get there I see no evidence of that.
You don't think the offensive coordinator of a team going to the Super Bowl had anything to do with that offense and the team getting there?!
We question his contribution to the success to a SB offense, but you know for sure he would have been blamed if the offense sucked this year.
vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:12 pm
You don't think the offensive coordinator of a team going to the Super Bowl had anything to do with that offense and the team getting there?!
We question his contribution to the success to a SB offense, but you know for sure he would have been blamed if the offense sucked this year.
Yep. How the world works in fandom. Team is awesome, coordinator does nothing. Team sucks, fire the OC!
I give the Vikings ownership and their new GM credit. They did not give into pressure from all the media focus on Jim Harbaugh. If this was Spielman, he would have caved. As I understand it, Harbaugh's vision just didn't work for them. Good for them!
I can't predict where this new era is going, all I know is that I haven't felt like this in a long time. It's both scary and exciting. Let's find that replacement franchise QB for that young whipper snapper Fran Tarkenton. **Sigh** this friggen franchise!
White 8DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeee! Waz Up!
That may be true. I don't know him. But if he is, he's a raging dork than he's a raging dork about to take his team to their 2nd Super Bowl in what, 5 years?
I'd take that raging dork 100 out of 100 times.
I hear Jim Harbaugh is weird. BFD. Can he help his team prepare for and win games. The answer to that is YES!.
We blew it.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:47 am
We intend to hire an OC who doesn't call plays. Doesn't it seem that would be a prerequisite for consideration? What data did the Vikings have on him indicating he would be a good HC? NONE!
READ SOMETHING!
Go to Page 1 of this thread and read the article from The Athletic by Chad Graff. It answers that VERY QUESTION.
Is it possible that O'Connell could turn out to be a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so.
Is it possible that Harbaugh would have been a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? Almost a certainty.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:57 am
READ SOMETHING!
Go to Page 1 of this thread and read the article from The Athletic by Chad Graff. It answers that VERY QUESTION.
Is it possible that O'Connell could turn out to be a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so.
Is it possible that Harbaugh would have been a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? Almost a certainty.
Y'all are killing me. "WE" have a new GM and a new HC. Nearly everyone wanted a change and now that WE have it, so many are wanting to retread the tires instead of wanting new wheels. Make up your freaking minds.
I for one am absolutely thrilled. I look forward to the vision of KAM. I look forward to the vision of O'Connell. I bet that they work tremendously well in compiling a great roster. So WE got a brilliant young GM and one that is understanding today's game. We have a tremendously talented offensive mind as our new HC who was a QB in the league, understands what is required by the position, and has been a part of every meeting the past couple of years and I promise has had an huge influence in game planning, strategizing, and developing an incredible offense. McVay wears a headset during the games ! Guess who he is talking with the entire time? That's right, our new HC !!!
I fully expect a very different vibe every day at TCO, the locker room, and on the sidelines.
It's a good thing that many of you have absolutely no say in what the team does. Like it or not, this is who we have and I guaran-damn-tee that there is a very good reason for Harbaugh going back to Michigan and not staying with the Vikings. My $$$ says that O'Connell is the better option.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:57 am
READ SOMETHING!
Go to Page 1 of this thread and read the article from The Athletic by Chad Graff. It answers that VERY QUESTION.
Is it possible that O'Connell could turn out to be a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so.
Is it possible that Harbaugh would have been a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? Almost a certainty.
But why? That has been my question. WHY isn't it likely that O'Connell could be a good head coach? You mentioned play calling before and I cited examples of very good coaches who didn't call plays prior. I included Zac Taylor that has his team in the Super Bowl despite becoming head coach from a QB coach!
He comes from the same vein as McKay, Taylor, Shannahan, and LeFleur. All young coaches that are simply shining right now. Other than the fact that you wanted Jim in here, what is it about McConnell that makes it so unlikely he'll have success? I'm genuinely curious.
In the same breath, I agree Harbaugh could likely win games. He's proven as much. But for a head coach, so much more goes into it than simply being good at X's and O's. The fit needs to be right. If fit, and buying into the culture didn't matter, teams wouldn't have a hiring process at all. They'd simply find the guy with the best record and hire them. That's not how sports works. Hell, that's not how LIFE works. For any job opening in any occupation there will be very qualified people who are simply not a fit. And by all accounts that was the case here. You're either choosing to not believe that was the case, or it's your belief that none of that stuff matters, relationships don't matter, culture doesn't matter. Which is fine. I just highly disagree.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:12 pm
Is it possible that O'Connell could turn out to be a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so.
Is it possible that Harbaugh would have been a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? Almost a certainty.
But why? That has been my question. WHY isn't it likely that O'Connell could be a good head coach? You mentioned play calling before and I cited examples of very good coaches who didn't call plays prior. I included Zac Taylor that has his team in the Super Bowl despite becoming head coach from a QB coach!
He comes from the same vein as McKay, Taylor, Shannahan, and LeFleur. All young coaches that are simply shining right now. Other than the fact that you wanted Jim in here, what is it about McConnell that makes it so unlikely he'll have success? I'm genuinely curious.
In the same breath, I agree Harbaugh could likely win games. He's proven as much. But for a head coach, so much more goes into it than simply being good at X's and O's. The fit needs to be right. If fit, and buying into the culture didn't matter, teams wouldn't have a hiring process at all. They'd simply find the guy with the best record and hire them. That's not how sports works. Hell, that's not how LIFE works. For any job opening in any occupation there will be very qualified people who are simply not a fit. And by all accounts that was the case here. You're either choosing to not believe that was the case, or it's your belief that none of that stuff matters, relationships don't matter, culture doesn't matter. Which is fine. I just highly disagree.
My belief is that they were offered a gift horse and looked it in the mouth. I believe the Wilfs on this occasion were idiots. I could be wrong. O'Connell could end up being a good coach, but he is only slightly more qualified to be a HC then Flip Saunders kid was. He doesn't have the credentials I would like. I also know that nobody has the credentials until they get them. I'm hoping for the best but expecting very little out of O'Connell.
As for relationships and culture Harbaugh was all about both of those and it shows in the love his players had for him. He had a bad relationship with one very bad GM.
vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:52 pm
But why? That has been my question. WHY isn't it likely that O'Connell could be a good head coach? You mentioned play calling before and I cited examples of very good coaches who didn't call plays prior. I included Zac Taylor that has his team in the Super Bowl despite becoming head coach from a QB coach!
He comes from the same vein as McKay, Taylor, Shannahan, and LeFleur. All young coaches that are simply shining right now. Other than the fact that you wanted Jim in here, what is it about McConnell that makes it so unlikely he'll have success? I'm genuinely curious.
In the same breath, I agree Harbaugh could likely win games. He's proven as much. But for a head coach, so much more goes into it than simply being good at X's and O's. The fit needs to be right. If fit, and buying into the culture didn't matter, teams wouldn't have a hiring process at all. They'd simply find the guy with the best record and hire them. That's not how sports works. Hell, that's not how LIFE works. For any job opening in any occupation there will be very qualified people who are simply not a fit. And by all accounts that was the case here. You're either choosing to not believe that was the case, or it's your belief that none of that stuff matters, relationships don't matter, culture doesn't matter. Which is fine. I just highly disagree.
My belief is that they were offered a gift horse and looked it in the mouth. I believe the Wilfs on this occasion were idiots. I could be wrong. O'Connell could end up being a good coach, but he is only slightly more qualified to be a HC then Flip Saunders kid was. He doesn't have the credentials I would like. I also know that nobody has the credentials until they get them. I'm hoping for the best but expecting very little out of O'Connell.
As for relationships and culture Harbaugh was all about both of those and it shows in the love his players had for him. He had a bad relationship with one very bad GM.
No doubt he's a players coach. I've never heard otherwise and one of the reasons he gets these coaching opportunities.
The rest is likely not as black and white as we know it to be. We know the story of the Niners GM. What else do we know. Do we know his offensive philosophies and if that aligned with what we are trying to do? What if he made it clear he saw a future without Cousins and the Wilfs are as high on Cousins as you are? Or vice-versa, what if he came in thinking he'd have Cousins to work with and they have already decided they want to move on?
Do you know of all the relationships he's had in the past with his coaches? Or medical staff? Or the countless other people and positions that make a franchise go? I don't. But there are WAY more things that go into being the perfect fit than simply being a players coach. Hell I'll go a step farther and say Harbaugh could be an angel and has never made a mistake in his life, and it's still possible this just wasn't the right fit.
Beauty of these hires is we can all chime in, and then simply sit back and watch it unfold. I've just never had the personality to write a guy off before I have any knowledge of what he can bring to the table.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:05 pm
My belief is that they were offered a gift horse and looked it in the mouth. I believe the Wilfs on this occasion were idiots. I could be wrong. O'Connell could end up being a good coach, but he is only slightly more qualified to be a HC then Flip Saunders kid was. He doesn't have the credentials I would like. I also know that nobody has the credentials until they get them. I'm hoping for the best but expecting very little out of O'Connell.
As for relationships and culture Harbaugh was all about both of those and it shows in the love his players had for him. He had a bad relationship with one very bad GM.
No doubt he's a players coach. I've never heard otherwise and one of the reasons he gets these coaching opportunities.
The rest is likely not as black and white as we know it to be. We know the story of the Niners GM. What else do we know. Do we know his offensive philosophies and if that aligned with what we are trying to do? What if he made it clear he saw a future without Cousins and the Wilfs are as high on Cousins as you are? Or vice-versa, what if he came in thinking he'd have Cousins to work with and they have already decided they want to move on?
Do you know of all the relationships he's had in the past with his coaches? Or medical staff? Or the countless other people and positions that make a franchise go? I don't. But there are WAY more things that go into being the perfect fit than simply being a players coach. Hell I'll go a step farther and say Harbaugh could be an angel and has never made a mistake in his life, and it's still possible this just wasn't the right fit.
Beauty of these hires is we can all chime in, and then simply sit back and watch it unfold. I've just never had the personality to write a guy off before I have any knowledge of what he can bring to the table.
I appreciate you wanting to have a positive outlook. I'm not in the mood for that right now. I hope I'm wrong and O'Connell turns out to be a great choice.
My problem with the Ram's coordinators is that Sean McVay literally has a Photographic Memory. In the simplest terms, I think one of the things (maybe the main thing) that makes McVay's coaching style special literally can't be taught.
