Vikings Message Board.Com

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.

Dude I enjoy reading your posts and all but there are times you REALLY tend to blow things out of proportion. This is one of those posts.

Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop. Do you realize that there are teams out there that have been picking "top prospects" over and over again for years and have gone nowhere? Look at the Lions, Jets, Jags, Browns, etc. It was just recently where the Browns started to become relevant. So if these so called "top prospects" are such a sure thing, wouldnt like you claim, wouldnt these teams get drastically better over the years? I dont think any teams in the NFL had more top picks than these teams, and they still all suck outside of Cleveland. It only took them 20 years to get out of the gutter.

Also, I've mentioned this before to you and I'm pretty sure you didnt answer. I'd love to hear your response. So you keep mentioned top LT prospects. Well the top one was Penei Sewell out of Oregon in case you werent aware. Anyways, you tell me what deal you'd rather have.....

-Trade UP to Miami's pick at #6 from #14 (because we'd have to jump the Lions at 7 who drafted Sewell). A trade of this caliber would cost us MULTIPLE picks including a FIRST rounder next year. So the result....

Vikings land LT Penei Sewell and lose a boat load of draft picks including next years first rounder.

--------OR--------

The Vikings trade down with the Jets and gain 2 third rounders and draft LT Christian Darrisaw. So the result....

Vikings land LT Christian Darrisaw, QB Kellen Mond and OG Wyatt Davis and still keep all their future picks


If you really believe that option 1 was better than option 2, or anywhere even close for that matter, you are high on the worlds craziest drugs.

And then you use the Bucs/SF trade last year to compare? The Bucs moved up ONE spot. ONE! That cost the Bucs a 4th round pick. That's it. Not even remotely close to what we would've had to give up to go land the drafts "top LT prospect".

Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.

Not sure where to even start here. I was literally just talking to my buddy last week about Spielman and this years approach. Like how in any way, shape or form is it the same as previous years?? If anything, even to my surprise, it’s much, much different.

-The amount of big name FA they brought in (Tomlinson, Peterson, Woods, Richardson, Alexander, Breeland, etc)
-Their approach in the draft (went OL, QB, OL in their first 3 picks which is unheard of under Zim).
-Their philosophy behind what they need in offensive lineman. They even came out and said they need to find guys with more of an anchor that can pass block
-The fact that they take an early 3rd round QB, something they havent done in who knows how long.

What are the two things everyone always rips Spielman for? Not preparing at the backup QB position and “ignoring the OL”. He literally addressed both of those areas within the first 3 picks of his precious draft.

So dont sit there and say the approach is the same. It’s literally not even close to being the same.

Also, I love how you praise the Trask pick for TB and say the GM learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. Yet, Rick Spielman literally drafts Kellen Mond like 4 picks later and somehow Spielman has tunnel vision? Like, what?

Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.

I’m not going to say our OL is better. Our OL is simply unproven. This is by far the most promising our OL has looked heading into a season in quite a while. You act like we’re rolling in with Dakota Dozier. How do you expect the OL to get better over time? This is a start.

There are reasons for optimism. Certainly the defense should be much improved. The DT rotation will be outstanding with Richardson signed. Hunter back, and hopefully at his pre injury level really only leaves the question of will someone step up to be at least average at the other DE?

I know the O line is a work in progress. Guys need time to work together, and will be likely asking two rookies to start. Regardless, I believe that overall this will be an improvement over last year. The skill players remain a strength on offense. (Even last year they performed well regardless of a shaky O line). Cousins should again be good, even though he may leave fans at times shaking their heads. If he ultimately ends up with a more stable pocket he is as good as anyone in picking apart a defense.

There are of course intangibles, injuries, players not playing up to expectations, etc that can sink the long boat. Right now I believe this is one of the better teams, if not the best team we have seen in Zimmer's tenure.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
Every team that makes a Super Bowl get's hot in the playoffs. There GM Jason Licht is a leader not a follower. I thought when he signed Brady it was a terrible move. An old immobile QB. That goes against what every so called football expert would suggest. He kicked his failed mobile inaccurate QB pick Winston down the road. So he has made his share of mistakes also. He has built a very good offensive line that is deep. They lost a starting G for the Super Bowl run against Wash in the playoffs and plugged the next guy in and kept rolling. No drop off. Found this below.
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.
Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.
Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.

Trader Down Rick made by far the best trade in the draft moving back from 14-23 getting Darrisaw, Mond and Davis instead of just Darrisaw. You are so blinded by your "you can't trade down" philosophy.

Best trade of the draft goes to the NYG or the Chicago Bears. NYG got a high 1st next year if Fields busts, Chicago got a franchise QB for relatively little if he doesn't.

Second definitely goes to the Vikings though.

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:44 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:17 am
Odds are almost always against any one team winning the championship in any one year. 31 other teams you're competing with. However, with this roster and just a little luck we can certainly win it all in this year. Just like we could have won it all the 3 years you mentioned. If you want to be a negative Nellie go ahead. I won't be.

With due respect, if Vikings fail to win the championship this year, I hope you will stop making threads like this because we do not want you to look like an idiot every time you are wrong

There was no due respect in your reply. I'm predicting we win it all. It's very possible we could, but 31 other teams are trying so odds are against me being correct. It does not in any way make me look like an idiot IMO. If you feel I look like an idiot that is your choice.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm
Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop.

Lets lay off of telling people what they can and can't believe. It isn't your job to monitor people's opinions, and if he wants to be upset with a GM for not trading up, even though we know for a fact they did try to trade up, that is on him.

I'll say this, this is probably the best roster Cousins has had in his career. If he doesn't lead this team deep into the playoffs, he'll never do it. But that's what we've been saying since he's got here (except 2020).

I'm still predicting a 7 to 9 win season. I would love to be proven wrong.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.

Dude I enjoy reading your posts and all but there are times you REALLY tend to blow things out of proportion. This is one of those posts.

Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop. Do you realize that there are teams out there that have been picking "top prospects" over and over again for years and have gone nowhere? Look at the Lions, Jets, Jags, Browns, etc. It was just recently where the Browns started to become relevant. So if these so called "top prospects" are such a sure thing, wouldnt like you claim, wouldnt these teams get drastically better over the years? I dont think any teams in the NFL had more top picks than these teams, and they still all suck outside of Cleveland. It only took them 20 years to get out of the gutter.

Also, I've mentioned this before to you and I'm pretty sure you didnt answer. I'd love to hear your response. So you keep mentioned top LT prospects. Well the top one was Penei Sewell out of Oregon in case you werent aware. Anyways, you tell me what deal you'd rather have.....

-Trade UP to Miami's pick at #6 from #14 (because we'd have to jump the Lions at 7 who drafted Sewell). A trade of this caliber would cost us MULTIPLE picks including a FIRST rounder next year. So the result....

Vikings land LT Penei Sewell and lose a boat load of draft picks including next years first rounder.

--------OR--------

The Vikings trade down with the Jets and gain 2 third rounders and draft LT Christian Darrisaw. So the result....

Vikings land LT Christian Darrisaw, QB Kellen Mond and OG Wyatt Davis and still keep all their future picks


If you really believe that option 1 was better than option 2, or anywhere even close for that matter, you are high on the worlds craziest drugs.

And then you use the Bucs/SF trade last year to compare? The Bucs moved up ONE spot. ONE! That cost the Bucs a 4th round pick. That's it. Not even remotely close to what we would've had to give up to go land the drafts "top LT prospect".

Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.

Not sure where to even start here. I was literally just talking to my buddy last week about Spielman and this years approach. Like how in any way, shape or form is it the same as previous years?? If anything, even to my surprise, it’s much, much different.

-The amount of big name FA they brought in (Tomlinson, Peterson, Woods, Richardson, Alexander, Breeland, etc)
-Their approach in the draft (went OL, QB, OL in their first 3 picks which is unheard of under Zim).
-Their philosophy behind what they need in offensive lineman. They even came out and said they need to find guys with more of an anchor that can pass block
-The fact that they take an early 3rd round QB, something they havent done in who knows how long.

What are the two things everyone always rips Spielman for? Not preparing at the backup QB position and “ignoring the OL”. He literally addressed both of those areas within the first 3 picks of his precious draft.

So dont sit there and say the approach is the same. It’s literally not even close to being the same.

Also, I love how you praise the Trask pick for TB and say the GM learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. Yet, Rick Spielman literally drafts Kellen Mond like 4 picks later and somehow Spielman has tunnel vision? Like, what?

Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.

I’m not going to say our OL is better. Our OL is simply unproven. This is by far the most promising our OL has looked heading into a season in quite a while. You act like we’re rolling in with Dakota Dozier. How do you expect the OL to get better over time? This is a start.

I like Trask. Of course he has a better chance to be a bum and that will probably happen. He fell like Jones. I liked him also. So what? It's only my post draft observation. No more than that. As for Mond.. we've been down this road many times and the best one was Gannon who lead the Raiders to the Super Bowl at age 37. He was a mobile dual threat guy who lacked accuracy and the feel for the passing game when drafted. He eventually figured it out but was long gone from our team. I see the same thing in Mond. I see a longer than usual development curve. I may be wrong and he will step in this year. But he needs to be ready next year so we can deal Cousins. Our current OL is a WIP(work in progress). We have one average player. The rest are still developing. Bradbury needs to show big time improvement day 1 of camp.That's why I would have drafted Green c/g also to join the competition. Competition makes players better. Basically step up or your out. Rick don't operate that way. He makes the pick and the job goes to the guy.

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm

Dude I enjoy reading your posts and all but there are times you REALLY tend to blow things out of proportion. This is one of those posts.

Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop. Do you realize that there are teams out there that have been picking "top prospects" over and over again for years and have gone nowhere? Look at the Lions, Jets, Jags, Browns, etc. It was just recently where the Browns started to become relevant. So if these so called "top prospects" are such a sure thing, wouldnt like you claim, wouldnt these teams get drastically better over the years? I dont think any teams in the NFL had more top picks than these teams, and they still all suck outside of Cleveland. It only took them 20 years to get out of the gutter.

Also, I've mentioned this before to you and I'm pretty sure you didnt answer. I'd love to hear your response. So you keep mentioned top LT prospects. Well the top one was Penei Sewell out of Oregon in case you werent aware. Anyways, you tell me what deal you'd rather have.....

-Trade UP to Miami's pick at #6 from #14 (because we'd have to jump the Lions at 7 who drafted Sewell). A trade of this caliber would cost us MULTIPLE picks including a FIRST rounder next year. So the result....

Vikings land LT Penei Sewell and lose a boat load of draft picks including next years first rounder.

--------OR--------

The Vikings trade down with the Jets and gain 2 third rounders and draft LT Christian Darrisaw. So the result....

Vikings land LT Christian Darrisaw, QB Kellen Mond and OG Wyatt Davis and still keep all their future picks


If you really believe that option 1 was better than option 2, or anywhere even close for that matter, you are high on the worlds craziest drugs.

And then you use the Bucs/SF trade last year to compare? The Bucs moved up ONE spot. ONE! That cost the Bucs a 4th round pick. That's it. Not even remotely close to what we would've had to give up to go land the drafts "top LT prospect".



Not sure where to even start here. I was literally just talking to my buddy last week about Spielman and this years approach. Like how in any way, shape or form is it the same as previous years?? If anything, even to my surprise, it’s much, much different.

-The amount of big name FA they brought in (Tomlinson, Peterson, Woods, Richardson, Alexander, Breeland, etc)
-Their approach in the draft (went OL, QB, OL in their first 3 picks which is unheard of under Zim).
-Their philosophy behind what they need in offensive lineman. They even came out and said they need to find guys with more of an anchor that can pass block
-The fact that they take an early 3rd round QB, something they havent done in who knows how long.

What are the two things everyone always rips Spielman for? Not preparing at the backup QB position and “ignoring the OL”. He literally addressed both of those areas within the first 3 picks of his precious draft.

So dont sit there and say the approach is the same. It’s literally not even close to being the same.

Also, I love how you praise the Trask pick for TB and say the GM learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. Yet, Rick Spielman literally drafts Kellen Mond like 4 picks later and somehow Spielman has tunnel vision? Like, what?



I’m not going to say our OL is better. Our OL is simply unproven. This is by far the most promising our OL has looked heading into a season in quite a while. You act like we’re rolling in with Dakota Dozier. How do you expect the OL to get better over time? This is a start.

I like Trask. Of course he has a better chance to be a bum and that will probably happen. He fell like Jones. I liked him also. So what? It's only my post draft observation. No more than that. As for Mond.. we've been down this road many times and the best one was Gannon who lead the Raiders to the Super Bowl at age 37. He was a mobile dual threat guy who lacked accuracy and the feel for the passing game when drafted. He eventually figured it out but was long gone from our team. I see the same thing in Mond. I see a longer than usual development curve. I may be wrong and he will step in this year. But he needs to be ready next year so we can deal Cousins. Our current OL is a WIP(work in progress). We have one average player. The rest are still developing. Bradbury needs to show big time improvement day 1 of camp.That's why I would have drafted Green c/g also to join the competition. Competition makes players better. Basically step up or your out. Rick don't operate that way. He makes the pick and the job goes to the guy.

I never said a draft pick is a sure thing. But for this year we were in a position to move up and get the top prospect for a position of need. If we were in slot 30 sure the price would be to high. If next years No 1 pick needs to go so what. For the top LT prospect it's a small price.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:33 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm
Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop.

Lets lay off of telling people what they can and can't believe. It isn't your job to monitor people's opinions, and if he wants to be upset with a GM for not trading up, even though we know for a fact they did try to trade up, that is on him.

Didnt mean it like that but it's also not your job to monitor what I say Carry on.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 pm I'll say this, this is probably the best roster Cousins has had in his career. If he doesn't lead this team deep into the playoffs, he'll never do it. But that's what we've been saying since he's got here (except 2020).

I'm still predicting a 7 to 9 win season. I would love to be proven wrong.

We won 6 of our last 10 last year with a non-existent defense. Our defense should be quite good this year. Why such low expectations? Are you guarding against disappointment?

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm

Dude I enjoy reading your posts and all but there are times you REALLY tend to blow things out of proportion. This is one of those posts.

Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop. Do you realize that there are teams out there that have been picking "top prospects" over and over again for years and have gone nowhere? Look at the Lions, Jets, Jags, Browns, etc. It was just recently where the Browns started to become relevant. So if these so called "top prospects" are such a sure thing, wouldnt like you claim, wouldnt these teams get drastically better over the years? I dont think any teams in the NFL had more top picks than these teams, and they still all suck outside of Cleveland. It only took them 20 years to get out of the gutter.

Also, I've mentioned this before to you and I'm pretty sure you didnt answer. I'd love to hear your response. So you keep mentioned top LT prospects. Well the top one was Penei Sewell out of Oregon in case you werent aware. Anyways, you tell me what deal you'd rather have.....

-Trade UP to Miami's pick at #6 from #14 (because we'd have to jump the Lions at 7 who drafted Sewell). A trade of this caliber would cost us MULTIPLE picks including a FIRST rounder next year. So the result....

Vikings land LT Penei Sewell and lose a boat load of draft picks including next years first rounder.

--------OR--------

The Vikings trade down with the Jets and gain 2 third rounders and draft LT Christian Darrisaw. So the result....

Vikings land LT Christian Darrisaw, QB Kellen Mond and OG Wyatt Davis and still keep all their future picks


If you really believe that option 1 was better than option 2, or anywhere even close for that matter, you are high on the worlds craziest drugs.

And then you use the Bucs/SF trade last year to compare? The Bucs moved up ONE spot. ONE! That cost the Bucs a 4th round pick. That's it. Not even remotely close to what we would've had to give up to go land the drafts "top LT prospect".



Not sure where to even start here. I was literally just talking to my buddy last week about Spielman and this years approach. Like how in any way, shape or form is it the same as previous years?? If anything, even to my surprise, it’s much, much different.

-The amount of big name FA they brought in (Tomlinson, Peterson, Woods, Richardson, Alexander, Breeland, etc)
-Their approach in the draft (went OL, QB, OL in their first 3 picks which is unheard of under Zim).
-Their philosophy behind what they need in offensive lineman. They even came out and said they need to find guys with more of an anchor that can pass block
-The fact that they take an early 3rd round QB, something they havent done in who knows how long.

What are the two things everyone always rips Spielman for? Not preparing at the backup QB position and “ignoring the OL”. He literally addressed both of those areas within the first 3 picks of his precious draft.

So dont sit there and say the approach is the same. It’s literally not even close to being the same.

Also, I love how you praise the Trask pick for TB and say the GM learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. Yet, Rick Spielman literally drafts Kellen Mond like 4 picks later and somehow Spielman has tunnel vision? Like, what?



I’m not going to say our OL is better. Our OL is simply unproven. This is by far the most promising our OL has looked heading into a season in quite a while. You act like we’re rolling in with Dakota Dozier. How do you expect the OL to get better over time? This is a start.

I like Trask. Of course he has a better chance to be a bum and that will probably happen. He fell like Jones. I liked him also. So what? It's only my post draft observation. No more than that. As for Mond.. we've been down this road many times and the best one was Gannon who lead the Raiders to the Super Bowl at age 37. He was a mobile dual threat guy who lacked accuracy and the feel for the passing game when drafted. He eventually figured it out but was long gone from our team. I see the same thing in Mond. I see a longer than usual development curve. I may be wrong and he will step in this year. But he needs to be ready next year so we can deal Cousins. Our current OL is a WIP(work in progress). We have one average player. The rest are still developing. Bradbury needs to show big time improvement day 1 of camp.That's why I would have drafted Green c/g also to join the competition. Competition makes players better. Basically step up or your out. Rick don't operate that way. He makes the pick and the job goes to the guy.

Green probably would have been a solid pick. He went the pick right after Davis. The Vikings preferred Chazz Surratt. We can't get everyone we or you want. Other teams are making picks also. A first and third round pick on the OL is a heavy investment. I'm not saying your idea wouldn't have been better than what we did. Time will tell.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:33 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:33 pm
Lets lay off of telling people what they can and can't believe. It isn't your job to monitor people's opinions, and if he wants to be upset with a GM for not trading up, even though we know for a fact they did try to trade up, that is on him.

Didnt mean it like that but it's also not your job to monitor what I say Carry on.

There's 32 teams that are competing to get the top player at each position. Only one of the 32 will. IIRC CharVike has stated that for any team in need of a particular position that if they don't get the top player at the position the GM should be fired on the spot. The Vikings got the LT most considered the 3rd best in the draft. I personally don't think that is an instant firing offense.

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:37 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 am
I like Trask. Of course he has a better chance to be a bum and that will probably happen. He fell like Jones. I liked him also. So what? It's only my post draft observation. No more than that. As for Mond.. we've been down this road many times and the best one was Gannon who lead the Raiders to the Super Bowl at age 37. He was a mobile dual threat guy who lacked accuracy and the feel for the passing game when drafted. He eventually figured it out but was long gone from our team. I see the same thing in Mond. I see a longer than usual development curve. I may be wrong and he will step in this year. But he needs to be ready next year so we can deal Cousins. Our current OL is a WIP(work in progress). We have one average player. The rest are still developing. Bradbury needs to show big time improvement day 1 of camp.That's why I would have drafted Green c/g also to join the competition. Competition makes players better. Basically step up or your out. Rick don't operate that way. He makes the pick and the job goes to the guy.

I never said a draft pick is a sure thing. But for this year we were in a position to move up and get the top prospect for a position of need. If we were in slot 30 sure the price would be to high. If next years No 1 pick needs to go so what. For the top LT prospect it's a small price.

The price would have been in all likelihood the following. Darrisaw, Mond, Surratt, Davis, Jones and our next years #1. I don't consider it a small price. No other team traded up for Sewell so it appears nobody thought the price for trading up for Sewell was small.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:43 am

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 pm I'll say this, this is probably the best roster Cousins has had in his career. If he doesn't lead this team deep into the playoffs, he'll never do it. But that's what we've been saying since he's got here (except 2020).

I'm still predicting a 7 to 9 win season. I would love to be proven wrong.

We won 6 of our last 10 last year with a non-existent defense. Our defense should be quite good this year. Why such low expectations? Are you guarding against disappointment?

I agree that is pessimistic, but not for the reason you state.

4 of those wins came against teams with a defense as bad as, or worse than ours.

We needed OT to beat the the team that got the #1 pick this past year.

We needed a missed FG to beat the team that picked 8th.

We lost to a team that went 6-10 in the worst division in football.

If the Vikings play anything like they did in 2020 in 2021 we will win 7 to 9. Would you agree with that?

I, like you, believe they will be much better on defense this year, and that will lead to more wins and the playoffs, but let's not pretend 2020 was anything but a bad season.

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm

Dude I enjoy reading your posts and all but there are times you REALLY tend to blow things out of proportion. This is one of those posts.

Your obsession with this whole "top prospect" thing has to stop. Do you realize that there are teams out there that have been picking "top prospects" over and over again for years and have gone nowhere? Look at the Lions, Jets, Jags, Browns, etc. It was just recently where the Browns started to become relevant. So if these so called "top prospects" are such a sure thing, wouldnt like you claim, wouldnt these teams get drastically better over the years? I dont think any teams in the NFL had more top picks than these teams, and they still all suck outside of Cleveland. It only took them 20 years to get out of the gutter.

Also, I've mentioned this before to you and I'm pretty sure you didnt answer. I'd love to hear your response. So you keep mentioned top LT prospects. Well the top one was Penei Sewell out of Oregon in case you werent aware. Anyways, you tell me what deal you'd rather have.....

-Trade UP to Miami's pick at #6 from #14 (because we'd have to jump the Lions at 7 who drafted Sewell). A trade of this caliber would cost us MULTIPLE picks including a FIRST rounder next year. So the result....

Vikings land LT Penei Sewell and lose a boat load of draft picks including next years first rounder.

--------OR--------

The Vikings trade down with the Jets and gain 2 third rounders and draft LT Christian Darrisaw. So the result....

Vikings land LT Christian Darrisaw, QB Kellen Mond and OG Wyatt Davis and still keep all their future picks


If you really believe that option 1 was better than option 2, or anywhere even close for that matter, you are high on the worlds craziest drugs.

And then you use the Bucs/SF trade last year to compare? The Bucs moved up ONE spot. ONE! That cost the Bucs a 4th round pick. That's it. Not even remotely close to what we would've had to give up to go land the drafts "top LT prospect".



Not sure where to even start here. I was literally just talking to my buddy last week about Spielman and this years approach. Like how in any way, shape or form is it the same as previous years?? If anything, even to my surprise, it’s much, much different.

-The amount of big name FA they brought in (Tomlinson, Peterson, Woods, Richardson, Alexander, Breeland, etc)
-Their approach in the draft (went OL, QB, OL in their first 3 picks which is unheard of under Zim).
-Their philosophy behind what they need in offensive lineman. They even came out and said they need to find guys with more of an anchor that can pass block
-The fact that they take an early 3rd round QB, something they havent done in who knows how long.

What are the two things everyone always rips Spielman for? Not preparing at the backup QB position and “ignoring the OL”. He literally addressed both of those areas within the first 3 picks of his precious draft.

So dont sit there and say the approach is the same. It’s literally not even close to being the same.

Also, I love how you praise the Trask pick for TB and say the GM learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. Yet, Rick Spielman literally drafts Kellen Mond like 4 picks later and somehow Spielman has tunnel vision? Like, what?



I’m not going to say our OL is better. Our OL is simply unproven. This is by far the most promising our OL has looked heading into a season in quite a while. You act like we’re rolling in with Dakota Dozier. How do you expect the OL to get better over time? This is a start.

I like Trask. Of course he has a better chance to be a bum and that will probably happen. He fell like Jones. I liked him also. So what? It's only my post draft observation. No more than that. As for Mond.. we've been down this road many times and the best one was Gannon who lead the Raiders to the Super Bowl at age 37. He was a mobile dual threat guy who lacked accuracy and the feel for the passing game when drafted. He eventually figured it out but was long gone from our team. I see the same thing in Mond. I see a longer than usual development curve. I may be wrong and he will step in this year. But he needs to be ready next year so we can deal Cousins. Our current OL is a WIP(work in progress). We have one average player. The rest are still developing. Bradbury needs to show big time improvement day 1 of camp.That's why I would have drafted Green c/g also to join the competition. Competition makes players better. Basically step up or your out. Rick don't operate that way. He makes the pick and the job goes to the guy.

1.) I had us drafting Trask in my mock and was tooting Trasks horn all along. I'm also a huge fan of his but you act like the Bucs made a good pick with Trask because they didnt need a QB and still drafted one fairly early. The Vikings literally did the same exact thing just a few picks later. And if the rumor of the Vikings wanting Fields was true, then they are flipping script on what they want at QB and want a more mobile QB which could very well be why they didnt trade up for Trask and took Mond instead. And I think Mond will surprise a lot of people. I think he will be similar to a Jalen Hurts. I'm still sticking with Chris Simms prediction as well when it comes to Mond. He had him as the 4th best QB in the draft this year ahead of both Lance and Fields. Simms is arguably one of the best analysts out there when it comes to scouting QBs.

2.) Yes our offensive line is a work in progress. I'm never claimed that it wasnt. I simply said this is by far the most PROMISING our OL has looked heading into a season in quite some time. If they play to their potential, yes this can be a very good offensive line. Darrisaw and Davis were excellent picks, especially given how we acquired them. Granted, we need to see them play but on paper, that trade was a home run in every facet.

3.) No, Rick does not "make the pick and the job goes to the guy". Not sure where that is even coming from. I, for one, have been ripping Zim over the past few years BECAUSE rookies that are clearly better than the starter are sitting the bench early on. No I dont expect a guy to just be given a starting job on a silver platter.

However, there is ZERO reason Bisi Johnson should've ever been starting over Justin Jefferson last year during the first two weeks. It took Johnson literally doing zilch in those first two weeks for JJ to see the field.

There was ZERO reason Rashod Hill should've ever started over Brian O'Neill in 2018. It took Hill getting injured for O'Neill to enter the game and he never looked back. Ended up going nearly TWO seasons without allowing a single sack which is unheard of.

There was ZERO reason Dru Samia should've been starting over Ezra Cleveland last year. It took Samia getting a "wrist injury" for Cleveland to ever get time. Cleveland wasnt a world beater but he was eons better than Dru Samia was. He instantly made our OL better the second he took over.

There was ZERO reason Jalyn Holmes continued to get more playing time than DJ Wonnum, Hercules Mata'afa or even Jordan Brailford last year. In 3 seasons, Holmes has played 748 defensive snaps. 617 of those coming last year. In 748 total defensive snaps, Holmes has mustered ONE sack and that was his rookie year against the Jets. I honestly dont know if I've ever seen a worse pass rusher than Holmes. Maybe Shamar Stephen and Jaleel Johnson which brings me to my next one.

There was ZERO reason James Lynch shouldnt have seen the field more last year. The guy produced 13 sacks as a DT his last year in college. He is known for his pass rushing abilities. He comes in for 8 snaps against Seattle, blows the offensive lineman backwards and gets a sack on Russell Wilson. It took Lynch 8 snaps to get to the QB but took Jaleel Johnson and Shamar Stephen a combined 1,316 defensive snaps to muster a combined 2 sacks between them.

So no, the last thing they do is just hand guys starting jobs. However, I feel like there are times that they really need to as crazy as that sounds. I get "competing in camp" but by week 1, the best players should be playing. Nobody cant sit there and tell me that Bisi Johnson was better than Justin Jefferson heading into the GB game week 1 last year. And I can tell you that Justin Jefferson doesnt go from "not being ready" week 1 to all of the sudden being a freak of nature that takes over the league by week 3.

Same goes for all the others above. My thing is, if a rookie that you invested an early pick on is sitting the bench, it should be because the guy in front of him is still producing. Think of the situation when Danielle Hunter was drafted. Ton of potential but super raw. Everson was in his prime and a sure fire starter. Then you look at the other side and it was B-Rob. At the time Hunter was drafted, B-Rob was still a very respectable starter, was still racking up sacks and was top 20 in pressures one of those seasons. So for Hunter to play behind him, it was 100% understandable. But when you have guys like Dru Samia, Bisi Johnson, Jalyn Holmes, Shamar Stephen and Jaleel Johnson playing, that's a problem. Those guys dont produce, like....ever. That is what drives me nuts. Play your best players!

Side note: dont be surprised one bit if both Dakota Dozier and Rashod Hill are starting over Darrisaw and Davis week 1. I could be wrong because this team has really surprised me this offseason with what they have done, but I also wouldnt put it past them.