J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
What on earth over the past seven years has convinced you that this ship is headed anywhere other than 180 degrees opposite of where it needs to go?
They've been competitive over the last 7 years. Just not Superbowl competitive, although they came close in 2017. The years they've missed the playoffs, they've not missed by much. They are not a pending ship wreck.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
1. We have a GM who values quantity of draft picks over quality. Y'all are going bonkers at the thought of losing 2-3 first-round draft picks. But look at all the first-round swings and misses that Spielman has had over the past 10 years. Guys like Christian Ponder, Matt Kalil, Cordarrelle Patterson, Shariff Floyd, Teddy Bridgewater, Trae Waynes, Laquon Treadwell, Mike Hughes and Garrett Bradbury. But boy, we've sure had plenty of picks in Rounds 5-7. Genius. The point here isn't that GMs always hit on first-round picks. All of them swing and miss at some point. But Deshaun Watson isn't the same as a first-round pick. He's already established himself as a top QB in the NFL. Y'all are acting like we get nothing in return.
How does Watson improve Spielman?
If Spielman is the problem, fix that problem. Getting a different QB doesn't address that problem.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
2. We have a coach who is stuck in 1994. A coach who hangs his hat on defense, yet whose defenses continually collapse in big moments and big games. A coach who thinks his scheme is so brilliant that can plug anybody in and still have a Top-5 unit.
If the coach is the problem, fix that problem. Watson can't fix that problem any more than Cousins can.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
3. We have a quarterback who, despite lots of nice volume statistics, is not a long-term answer. No than any of he other dozens of guys the Vikings have trotted out there since Fran Tarkenton retired.
Cousins and Watson are pretty close statistically as passers. Watson is a better runner and more inclined to run, but name me the last running QB who won a Superbowl. That's not a first-order contributor to success as a QB in the pros. It might cover up a shaky pass blocking offensive line or improve a team's apparent running stats, but given how few running QBs end up hoisting Lombardi Trophies, that attribute doesn't impress me much.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
4. We make the playoffs one year, only to get blown out, then miss the playoffs the next. Do you know the last time we made the playoffs two years in a row was when Brad Childress was coaching this team?
Watson led his team to 4 wins last year, which implies two things:
1) Watson alone isn't enough to cover up a team's overall flaws no matter how good he may individually be
2) A team's overall flaws are far-and-away the biggest contributor to their overall success or lack thereof and not an individual player, even if he is a rock star QB
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
I think I can lay claim to being among the top two or three most optimistic guys on this board. But even I can see that this constant "slight course correction" is only good enough to get us back into the playoffs, where we ultimately meet our demise before reaching the big game. We get off course when we miss the playoffs. We "get back on course" by making the playoffs and getting blown out. I'm tired of it.
What you're describing is an apparent pattern. It's not a pattern based on anything objectively likely to repeat itself, but since it has repeated itself enough times, it seems logical to expect the pattern to continue in the future.
The winning formula is be a complete team with some depth, be fortunate with injuries during the season, and then get hot at the right time. That will put any team in the Superbowl conversation, and for many teams, that requires more course correction than course reversals.
If the Vikings want to become a complete team, then the areas to focus on are obvious, and QB isn't one of them right now. They have a QB who is good enough, but a team that is not. Fix the problems with other areas on the team, and then if there is a fatal issue at QB that will be more apparent.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
And for that matter, what have we had for the past 15 years? Drastic improvement? Heck, even "Incremental improvement" would be a very generous description of what Spielman and Zimmer have done because I'm not sure it's true. Before Zimmer arrived, we made the playoffs three times in 6 years. Since Zimmer, it's three times in 7 years. How is that improvement?
If Zimmer is the problem, he's going to be a problem for Watson every bit as much as he is for Cousins.
If the coach is the issue, change the coach.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
Kirk Cousins executes the plays that are called. But he's not a playmaker. Watson is.
I don't know if I agree with that. If you look at the stats for Watson and Cousins, they're pretty close other than the running stats. Cousins makes some plays too, and he might make more if Spielman puts a better OL in front of him.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
Perfect. A year too late. Next year's QB draft is projected to be one of the worst in recent memory, and Deshaun Watson will be a Jet or a 49er or some other such crap. Yeah, let's just keep kicking the can down the road.
I mentioned a few mid-round QB prospects who the Vikings might have a reasonable shot at this year that might turn out to be pretty good pros, especially if they get some time to marinate behind a vet. Maybe instead of kicking the can down the road they just switch from Diet Coke to Coke and go ahead and take a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
For me the bottom line is the Vikings have bigger issues than their QB, and going further, I just don't believe in the myth that the overall team is saved by a single guy. Even Brady needs a complete effort around him to succeed in Tampa, and Watson isn't enough to make the difference on a bad Houston team. Rodgers at home wasn't enough to best Tampa even though his defense got him the ball back multiple times.
Not Brady, nor Watson, nor Mahomes, nor Rodgers could overcome the Vikings inconsistent pass blocking and generally poor interior OL play. Unless that problem is fixed, having a "better" QB won't matter and the end result will be the same at best. None of those guys can generate a pass rush or limit the effectiveness of the opposing team's running game on 1st and 2nd down or get the opposing offense off the field. If that problem isn't fixed, who cares if your starting QB throws 5 more TDs or runs for 5 more TDs? The end result for the team is going to be largely the same.
Honestly, the Vikings just made a trade like the one many seem to hope will happen here. They just traded their 2nd round pick to the Jags for a pass rusher who didn't really materially change anything because the team's overall issues went far beyond what could be solved by that single player even if he met all expectations. Now they have neither their 2nd round pick nor that pass rusher. They got a 3rd back for him, and maybe fate will finally smile on them and they'll use that 3rd rounder to draft their franchise QB in this upcoming draft.