Vikings Message Board.Com

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:10 pm The one issue I have is that fans say “we would not find someone better than Zimmer” how would they know that?

We don't know it. However, odds are strongly against it.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:04 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:23 pm If head coaches are measured in win percentage Zimmer is the 11th best coach in the league - 10th if you discount Matt LaFleur only having one season.

I personally don't think Zimmer can get a team to the super bowl as it's head coach. Honestly, given his defenses performances in playoff games I'm not sure he can get there as a defensive coordinator. I don't think the better offenses in the league - especially those with more level-headed quarterbacks - are thrown off balance all that much by the adjustments and pre-snap looks they give. Just my two cents, I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, I can't blame them for resigning an arguably top 10 head coach. They certainly aren't around every corner and there's a good chance they would take a step back with someone else. As an owner are you really willing to play the "next big head coach" scratch off game? You might get the next great head coach or your team might suck for 3 seasons and you're hiring another new headcoach.

Why rock the boat if you're making good returns and the fans generally like your coach? He's had some exciting seasons too.

I think "Why rock the boat if you're making good returns?" is exactly the message this extension sends to the fans. The Vikes are telling us they're fine with the results of the past 6 seasons and will be fine with more of the same. It's a complacent choice, a "good enough is good enough" decision. The Vikes will probably keep winning 8-11 games a season, fans will continue to tout Zimmer's defensive prowess and rationalize his shortcomings away and 3 or 4 years from now, the Vikings will still be without a Super Bowl.

Zim is a good coach and the talent infusion from this draft and the next one is going to be massive. I won't guarantee anything, but I think chances are quite good that we will have that Lombardi trophy within Zimmers extension.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:10 am

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:04 pm

I think "Why rock the boat if you're making good returns?" is exactly the message this extension sends to the fans. The Vikes are telling us they're fine with the results of the past 6 seasons and will be fine with more of the same. It's a complacent choice, a "good enough is good enough" decision. The Vikes will probably keep winning 8-11 games a season, fans will continue to tout Zimmer's defensive prowess and rationalize his shortcomings away and 3 or 4 years from now, the Vikings will still be without a Super Bowl.

Zim is a good coach and the talent infusion from this draft and the next one is going to be massive. I won't guarantee anything, but I think chances are quite good that we will have that Lombardi trophy within Zimmers extension.

If that does not happen then I hope you are ready to move on from Zimmer when his contract is up

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:36 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:10 am
Zim is a good coach and the talent infusion from this draft and the next one is going to be massive. I won't guarantee anything, but I think chances are quite good that we will have that Lombardi trophy within Zimmers extension.

If that does not happen then I hope you are ready to move on from Zimmer when his contract is up

Probably not. If we are making the playoffs and advancing that will be enough to keep me happy. This year Zimmer gets a pass due to all the new players and the loss of Pierce. I'm not expecting anything better than 8-8 right now. Next year 11-5 than 12-4 than 13-3 and hopefully a title one of those years.

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:10 pm The one issue I have is that fans say “we would not find someone better than Zimmer” how would they know that?

I'm actually a fan of replacing Zimmer so I'll start with that. However, I think it's fair for people to be worried we would take a step back at the head coach position. It goes back to the "win percentage" argument. By that measure Zimmer is a top 10 head coach. Though I think if we want the Vikings to win a superbowl they'll need to go with a different head coach, I'll also admit that there's a good chance a new head coach *won't* be better than Zimmer.

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:49 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:10 pm The one issue I have is that fans say “we would not find someone better than Zimmer” how would they know that?

I'm actually a fan of replacing Zimmer so I'll start with that. However, I think it's fair for people to be worried we would take a step back at the head coach position. It goes back to the "win percentage" argument. By that measure Zimmer is a top 10 head coach. Though I think if we want the Vikings to win a superbowl they'll need to go with a different head coach, I'll also admit that there's a good chance a new head coach *won't* be better than Zimmer.

It is hard to call Zimmer a top 10 head coach since Zimmer misses the playoffs every other year, top 10 coaches do not do that and we will not find out until we get a new head coach, look at the Eagles, Eagles fired Chip Kelly who is well known and hired an unknown coach in Doug Pederson and Eagles won the Superbowl so why not take that chance?

I like Zimmer, though he has some deficiencies, and I wouldn't replace him if my goal was to win the superbowl. I would aim for competence and consistency and build long term. But truthfully, I don't really care if the Vikings ever win a superbowl at this point. I am now a pretty casual fan, and the politicization of everything in sports has turned me off. I'd rather watch something else, or read a great book I should have already read years ago. I cancelled TV service almost a year ago and don't plan to renew it whenever sports get started again, which I had been concerned might lure me back in. I feel like one bright spot of this whole moment is that I've been able to break my addiction to TV sports. So, as an unbiased 'fan', I think keeping Zimmer/Kubiak is the right move.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:03 pm I like Zimmer, though he has some deficiencies, and I wouldn't replace him if my goal was to win the superbowl. I would aim for competence and consistency and build long term. But truthfully, I don't really care if the Vikings ever win a superbowl at this point. I am now a pretty casual fan, and the politicization of everything in sports has turned me off. I'd rather watch something else, or read a great book I should have already read years ago. I cancelled TV service almost a year ago and don't plan to renew it whenever sports get started again, which I had been concerned might lure me back in. I feel like one bright spot of this whole moment is that I've been able to break my addiction to TV sports. So, as an unbiased 'fan', I think keeping Zimmer/Kubiak is the right move.

Does that include Speilman?

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:24 pm

fiestavike wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:03 pm I like Zimmer, though he has some deficiencies, and I wouldn't replace him if my goal was to win the superbowl. I would aim for competence and consistency and build long term. But truthfully, I don't really care if the Vikings ever win a superbowl at this point. I am now a pretty casual fan, and the politicization of everything in sports has turned me off. I'd rather watch something else, or read a great book I should have already read years ago. I cancelled TV service almost a year ago and don't plan to renew it whenever sports get started again, which I had been concerned might lure me back in. I feel like one bright spot of this whole moment is that I've been able to break my addiction to TV sports. So, as an unbiased 'fan', I think keeping Zimmer/Kubiak is the right move.

Does that include Speilman?

No it includes Spielman.

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:52 pmhard to call Zimmer a top 10 head coach since Zimmer misses the playoffs every other year, top 10 coaches do not do that and we will not find out until we get a new head coach, look at the Eagles, Eagles fired Chip Kelly who is well known and hired an unknown coach in Doug Pederson and Eagles won the Superbowl so why not take that chance?

It's all in your definition. How do you rank head coaches? Should they make the playoffs every year? If so, I don't know that there are 10 coaches to even choose from. He wins a higher percentage of the time than 21 other head coaches in the league. That's pretty significant.

Because for every new coach that comes in and has that kind of success there are many more that fail. Even though I think it's time to move on from Zimmer I also think there's a strong chance the team ends up worse off for it especially in the short term. I think it's fair to want to stick with a coach that at least makes you feel like you've got a chance to do something at the end of the season and a pretty regular basis. I don't agree with it but especially financially I can see it.

Spielman extended also.


RICK SPIELMAN
G, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Vikings signed GM Rick Spielman to a multi-year extension.
Spielman has held the title of GM since 2012. The Vikings have posted two losing seasons in his eight-year tenure and have a 72-54 record under Spielman. He previously served as the Vice President of Player Personnel in Minnesota for six seasons before assuming his current role. The Vikings have Kirk Cousins under contract through 2022 and head coach Mike Zimmer locked up through 2023. Spielman is an aggressive GM and his tenacity has largely been rewarded. Minnesota has one of the brightest outlooks from an organizational perspective in the league.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 2, 2020, 8:33 PM ET

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:47 pm Spielman extended also.


RICK SPIELMAN
G, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Vikings signed GM Rick Spielman to a multi-year extension.
Spielman has held the title of GM since 2012. The Vikings have posted two losing seasons in his eight-year tenure and have a 72-54 record under Spielman. He previously served as the Vice President of Player Personnel in Minnesota for six seasons before assuming his current role. The Vikings have Kirk Cousins under contract through 2022 and head coach Mike Zimmer locked up through 2023. Spielman is an aggressive GM and his tenacity has largely been rewarded. Minnesota has one of the brightest outlooks from an organizational perspective in the league.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 2, 2020, 8:33 PM ET

He does not deserve an extension, he has been here for 14 years and no Superbowl yet

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:47 pm Spielman extended also.


RICK SPIELMAN
G, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Vikings signed GM Rick Spielman to a multi-year extension.
Spielman has held the title of GM since 2012. The Vikings have posted two losing seasons in his eight-year tenure and have a 72-54 record under Spielman. He previously served as the Vice President of Player Personnel in Minnesota for six seasons before assuming his current role. The Vikings have Kirk Cousins under contract through 2022 and head coach Mike Zimmer locked up through 2023. Spielman is an aggressive GM and his tenacity has largely been rewarded. Minnesota has one of the brightest outlooks from an organizational perspective in the league.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 2, 2020, 8:33 PM ET

I understand we are very weak at Guard, but plugging in Spielman seems like an act of desperation!!

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:04 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:47 pm Spielman extended also.


RICK SPIELMAN
G, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Vikings signed GM Rick Spielman to a multi-year extension.
Spielman has held the title of GM since 2012. The Vikings have posted two losing seasons in his eight-year tenure and have a 72-54 record under Spielman. He previously served as the Vice President of Player Personnel in Minnesota for six seasons before assuming his current role. The Vikings have Kirk Cousins under contract through 2022 and head coach Mike Zimmer locked up through 2023. Spielman is an aggressive GM and his tenacity has largely been rewarded. Minnesota has one of the brightest outlooks from an organizational perspective in the league.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 2, 2020, 8:33 PM ET

He does not deserve an extension, he has been here for 14 years and no Superbowl yet

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:04 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:47 pm Spielman extended also.


RICK SPIELMAN
G, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Vikings signed GM Rick Spielman to a multi-year extension.
Spielman has held the title of GM since 2012. The Vikings have posted two losing seasons in his eight-year tenure and have a 72-54 record under Spielman. He previously served as the Vice President of Player Personnel in Minnesota for six seasons before assuming his current role. The Vikings have Kirk Cousins under contract through 2022 and head coach Mike Zimmer locked up through 2023. Spielman is an aggressive GM and his tenacity has largely been rewarded. Minnesota has one of the brightest outlooks from an organizational perspective in the league.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 2, 2020, 8:33 PM ET

He does not deserve an extension, he has been here for 14 years and no Superbowl yet

Have been absent from here for a while and been super busy but trying to get back on when I can.

As for Spielman, I 100% think he deserves an extension. Again, we wouldnt have the talent we do on this team if it wasnt for Spielman and even after what we've lost this offseason talent wise, this is still one of the more overall talented teams in the NFL with what looks like a bright future with a solid looking draft class and another 13 picks already next year.

Spielmans job is to bring in talent. He's not the coach. He isnt out there playing. He has done his job better than a good 80% of GMs in this league since Zimmer has been here. When he finally took over as GM, he's continued to bring in talent to this team and even more so since Zim has been here, especially via the draft.

I mean there has been:

Cook
Mattison
Diggs
Thielen (who he brought in on a workout as an UDFA and kept year after year, when he could have easily cut him)
Jefferson (should be a big time player for us for a long time)
Irv
Bradbury
Oneill
Cleveland (Jury is out but I like the potential there, similar to Oneill)
Hunter
Lynch (will be a stud IMO)
Odenigbo
Kendricks
Barr
Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Gladney (solid pick)
Dantzler (who for whatever reason I think will be our next shutdown CB and maybe be even better than Gladney)
Harris
Smith

Sure we can sit here and say he was "part of" the Ponder pick, you can try and blame him for Kalil which is a terrible argument, you can complain about Cousins contract, etc. But you can also complain about any other GM and their "bad moves".

But please tell me how many GMs in this league have brought in the talent he did above?? I can tell you there havent been many. He's been long considered one of the better GMs in the NFL and I 100% agree. I dont care what he did prior to 2012, I dont care what he did in Miami, I care about what he's done to fill this roster with talent, and he's done a damn good job at that if you ask me.