Cousins is actually better under the bright lights

[Pondering Her Percy]

Agree to disagree. The media, for the most part, directs the blame and credit to the QB. But anyone that knows football knows it's a team game. If Cousins' defenses are giving up 35 points in most prime time games, how can anyone realistically expect him to have a winning record in those games, or one even close to being .500?? I can 100% guarantee that if you looked up every QBs defense in primetime games throughout their careers, Cousins' has been BY FAR the worst of any QB. Literally guarantee it. It's exactly why I think that stat that the media wants to throw around about him in prime time games is a crock of crap. Especially given he's played well in prime time games for the most part

I would love to see the numbers of his defenses in prime time versus what other QBs have faced. Do you have a link?

No Kyle Brandt said it on good morning football last year leading up to the Thursday night game vs Washington. He actually said that his numbers were better, he played better, etc but his defenses averaged 34.2 points per game given up. I’d love to know another QB that had their defense consistently play that bad during prime time throughout their career. I can guarantee nobody touches 34.2 points per game. And if they somehow did, I can sure as shi# guarantee you that QB doesn’t have anywhere near a winning prime time record

[Pondering Her Percy]

Article is a little dated. A week after it was written he and the team would go on to put on a pathetic attempt against the 49ers. A game where Sage, a former NFL QB, broke down something like 8 plays where Cousins missed guys that were open.

When you’re at the top of this list:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings/

You damn well better expect to shoulder a lot.

And we’ve been down this road. There was a 20+ minute video on Aaron Rodgers missing wide open WRs on Facebook. It means nothing. His “wide open” guy could’ve been the 4th read and when you have nick bosa and the rest of their DL breathing down your neck, good luck getting to your 4th read. Nobody knows what the play call was. You can sit here all day and pick apart Wilson, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc where they “missed” wide open WRs. It’s like people focus on that now after diggs bitc#ed after the Chicago game. I hardly remember anyone complaining about cousins missing open guys in 2018. But all of the sudden he developed some bad habit in 2019? Come on. It’s people trying to do everything they can to find fault in his game. Like yeah he played poorly that game, no denying that but that’s just nitpicking if you ask me. The guy throws for a boat load of yards a year, 25+ TDs a year, etc. But he’s missing all these “open WRs”? I guess that means he could be a 50 TD a year, 5,000 yard passer but is missing too many open WRs?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Holding a QB accountable for a team's win/loss record where he is one player out of 50 is ridiculous. Might as well hold the left guard, the free safety or the long snapper accountable for the team's record. If the defense is giving up 34 PPG what are the QBs chances of having a good win/loss record.

You should tell that to Cousins:

"I think the next level, really, is all about winning," Cousins said during mandatory minicamp on Wednesday. "I'm pretty much a .500 quarterback in my career so far and I don't think that's where you want to be, and that's not why you are brought in or people or excited about you.

Lol ok? Do you really think he’s going to be like “Yeah the redskins were terrible and if it wasn’t for me they’d be lucky to get 4 wins a year”? Like of course he is going to shoulder any sort of blame. Cousins has never been a guy to direct blame at someone else or his team as a whole. So I don’t know what you think that proves

[Pondering Her Percy]

It's a shame we have to find the flimsiest strawman arguments to knock down in an effort to 'be right' and 'win', or to 'defend our guy'. The 'bright lights' arent really the point. Silly. We all know where cousins is good and where he isnt after the last couple seasons, not to mention his Redskins days. Finding the ways to frame criticism of Cousins that are easiest to knock down, is not impressive or insighful. It's just a silly and masturbatory waste of time.

Fiesta I respect that you aren't the one making the flimsy arguments. However, Cousins Monday night record isn't a strawman. It's probably the #1 argument that people make against him. That and his record against winning teams. The problem with those is he can't control the results of those games as one player out of 50. It's not possible. He does his best and most of the time his best is pretty darn good.

Agreed. Every time he has played on Monday night it has came up. If it’s a prime time game it has came up. They plaster the stat on the screen during the game. And then he goes out and was a hero on the road against the saints in OT. That game right there WAS the biggest game of his career up to that point and he DID win. Bigger than any MNF game, SNF game, Thursday night game, etc. But then he plays poorly and loses to SF who dominated us in every facet of the game. And it goes back to, “well he can’t win the big game because he lost to SF”. Really? Listen, cousins could’ve beat the saints AND beat the 49ers and lost to GB in the NFC championship and guess what people would be saying, “he still can’t win the big game”. And hell if he pulled that off against the top 2 teams (IMO) in the NFC on the road as a massive underdog, that would’ve been insane. But at this point, if cousins doesn’t win a SB he will forever be a loser in some fans eyes. Granted that’s the ultimate goal but dan Marino never got one and he was one of the greatest to ever do it. Not comparing cousins and Marino but nobody is calling marino a loser. And what did Marino bring to Miami? Not a SB trophy. Hell look at manning. IMO he’s the greatest QB of all time and played for 17 years and only got his 2nd SB ring at the backend of his career riding the coattails of an elite defense. I just feel like some fans just act like it’s so easy. And because cousins took over a 13-3 team it should just be a shoe-in. Like no, that’s not the case and not how the nfl works. Players change, coaches change, schemes change, players age, you go from a 3rd place schedule to a 1st place schedule, other teams get better, etc. There is SO much that plays into that. Not just 1 player. You win the SB as a team. As great as Mahomes is, he’s not winning a SB if it wasn’t for his defense making key stops in that 2nd half. That defense isn’t winning a SB if Mahomes doesn’t make key plays in the 2nd half. Do we see how they go hand in hand?

[StumpHunter]

Fiesta I respect that you aren't the one making the flimsy arguments. However, Cousins Monday night record isn't a strawman. It's probably the #1 argument that people make against him. That and his record against winning teams. The problem with those is he can't control the results of those games as one player out of 50. It's not possible. He does his best and most of the time his best is pretty darn good.

Agreed. Every time he has played on Monday night it has came up. If it’s a prime time game it has came up. They plaster the stat on the screen during the game. And then he goes out and was a hero on the road against the saints in OT. That game right there WAS the biggest game of his career up to that point and he DID win. Bigger than any MNF game, SNF game, Thursday night game, etc. But then he plays poorly and loses to SF who dominated us in every facet of the game. And it goes back to, “well he can’t win the big game because he lost to SF”. Really? Listen, cousins could’ve beat the saints AND beat the 49ers and lost to GB in the NFC championship and guess what people would be saying, “he still can’t win the big game”. And hell if he pulled that off against the top 2 teams (IMO) in the NFC on the road as a massive underdog, that would’ve been insane. But at this point, if cousins doesn’t win a SB he will forever be a loser in some fans eyes. Granted that’s the ultimate goal but dan Marino never got one and he was one of the greatest to ever do it. Not comparing cousins and Marino but nobody is calling marino a loser. And what did Marino bring to Miami? Not a SB trophy. Hell look at manning. IMO he’s the greatest QB of all time and played for 17 years and only got his 2nd SB ring at the backend of his career riding the coattails of an elite defense. I just feel like some fans just act like it’s so easy. And because cousins took over a 13-3 team it should just be a shoe-in. Like no, that’s not the case and not how the nfl works. Players change, coaches change, schemes change, players age, you go from a 3rd place schedule to a 1st place schedule, other teams get better, etc. There is SO much that plays into that. Not just 1 player. You win the SB as a team. As great as Mahomes is, he’s not winning a SB if it wasn’t for his defense making key stops in that 2nd half. That defense isn’t winning a SB if Mahomes doesn’t make key plays in the 2nd half. Do we see how they go hand in hand?

Every time we play on Monday night, Cousins record on Monday night is brought up? Shocking.

[StumpHunter]

I would love to see the numbers of his defenses in prime time versus what other QBs have faced. Do you have a link?

No Kyle Brandt said it on good morning football last year leading up to the Thursday night game vs Washington. He actually said that his numbers were better, he played better, etc but his defenses averaged 34.2 points per game given up. I’d love to know another QB that had their defense consistently play that bad during prime time throughout their career. I can guarantee nobody touches 34.2 points per game. And if they somehow did, I can sure as shi# guarantee you that QB doesn’t have anywhere near a winning prime time record

Either you are remembering the stat wrong or Brandt was wrong.

[VikingLord]

What is this now? If he only has 1/50th of the impact on whether we win or lose a game, why the heck are we paying him 1/8th of the cap?

Let's just throw Mannion out there at a fraction of the price if that is the case.

You make a fair point. The QB contributes proportionately more to the outcome on offense than any other single offensive player which is why QBs make so much.

Let's just agree that Cousins is a competent QB who can win with solid play around him. He's not a guy who is going to necessarily devise miracles and conjure something out of nothing, but if the team plays well he will win more than he loses and can win the big games.

If we can agree that is a fair description of Cousins, then who is/was available that is a better option? Mannion is not a better option. He'll be paid far less and will likely perform in ways that would detract from an otherwise competent team performance. The same could be said for a lot of other guys who are available either through trade or FA.

So Spielman has Cousins under center. If the Vikings get rid of him, the only way that makes sense to me is if they find a better QB. I just don't see who that QB would be. Maybe they could have drafted one. Maybe they could have even aggressively moved up to draft one. But there are no guarantees in the draft, and in this particular draft I certainly didn't see a QB prospect I thought was better than even odds to become a competent starter over time. IMHO, the first guy off the board in this last draft is likely to have a pro career that will more resemble Kirk Cousins' career than it will Drew Brees' career.

It just isn't worth complaining about at this point. Yeah, the Vikings have a lot invested at QB. Yeah, they probably aren't getting, nor are going to get, the superlative level of play at the position from Cousins that other teams get with some other highly paid veteran QBs. But I'd argue that doesn't matter, both because there are no surefire better options at the position (highly-paid or not), but also because teams can get to and win Superbowls with lower levels of performance than the Vikings have gotten from Kirk Cousins. Cousins hovers at the border between the really good and good starting QBs in the league. The Vikings are probably overpaying him for what they get, but I don't think they could get anything better than that for any amount of money, at least right now.

I don't like that the Vikings have seemingly ignored the QB position in the draft, but even there, their draft position hasn't put them in a great position to take a flyer on a solid prospect in most years. All things being equal, I prefer the draft to be played in a way similar to how Spielman is playing it, that being taking obvious value where it presents itself and, where it doesn't, trading back for more swings.

Honestly, I was a lot more worried about the offensive line heading into this season than the QB, RB, TE or WR positions. In nearly every game the Vikings got whacked last year it was because the offensive line just couldn't get it done running or passing. Cousins caught some well-deserved flak for his contributions to those losses, but from where I sat I didn't see another QB doing much better with the play in front of him. Hopefully that improves this season, and I think if it does Cousins is going to have a great year.

[S197]

What is this now? If he only has 1/50th of the impact on whether we win or lose a game, why the heck are we paying him 1/8th of the cap?

Let's just throw Mannion out there at a fraction of the price if that is the case.

You make a fair point. The QB contributes proportionately more to the outcome on offense than any other single offensive player which is why QBs make so much.

Let's just agree that Cousins is a competent QB who can win with solid play around him. He's not a guy who is going to necessarily devise miracles and conjure something out of nothing, but if the team plays well he will win more than he loses and can win the big games.

If we can agree that is a fair description of Cousins, then who is/was available that is a better option? Mannion is not a better option. He'll be paid far less and will likely perform in ways that would detract from an otherwise competent team performance. The same could be said for a lot of other guys who are available either through trade or FA.

So Spielman has Cousins under center. If the Vikings get rid of him, the only way that makes sense to me is if they find a better QB. I just don't see who that QB would be. Maybe they could have drafted one. Maybe they could have even aggressively moved up to draft one. But there are no guarantees in the draft, and in this particular draft I certainly didn't see a QB prospect I thought was better than even odds to become a competent starter over time. IMHO, the first guy off the board in this last draft is likely to have a pro career that will more resemble Kirk Cousins' career than it will Drew Brees' career.

It just isn't worth complaining about at this point. Yeah, the Vikings have a lot invested at QB. Yeah, they probably aren't getting, nor are going to get, the superlative level of play at the position from Cousins that other teams get with some other highly paid veteran QBs. But I'd argue that doesn't matter, both because there are no surefire better options at the position (highly-paid or not), but also because teams can get to and win Superbowls with lower levels of performance than the Vikings have gotten from Kirk Cousins. Cousins hovers at the border between the really good and good starting QBs in the league. The Vikings are probably overpaying him for what they get, but I don't think they could get anything better than that for any amount of money, at least right now.

I don't like that the Vikings have seemingly ignored the QB position in the draft, but even there, their draft position hasn't put them in a great position to take a flyer on a solid prospect in most years. All things being equal, I prefer the draft to be played in a way similar to how Spielman is playing it, that being taking obvious value where it presents itself and, where it doesn't, trading back for more swings.

Honestly, I was a lot more worried about the offensive line heading into this season than the QB, RB, TE or WR positions. In nearly every game the Vikings got whacked last year it was because the offensive line just couldn't get it done running or passing. Cousins caught some well-deserved flak for his contributions to those losses, but from where I sat I didn't see another QB doing much better with the play in front of him. Hopefully that improves this season, and I think if it does Cousins is going to have a great year.

This neglects the impact of the salary cap. Resources, in this case money, is limited and when you invest so much in one player that by definition means less to put on everyone else. So you can’t have the perfect OL, great defense and all the other tools Cousins needs to succeed. In short, like you said Cousins isn’t a guy that elevates the play of those around him and that’s what you need to do with a contract of his size.

I don’t mind Rick grabbing Cousins and taking a shot but I do disagree with the extension when he’s clearly not the guy that is putting this team over the top. Not to mention Ricks drafting strategy that regardless of draft position he continues to neglect the QB position. 15 draft picks and still waiting until the 7th round really emphasizes this. And it’s not just this year, we have over a decade of drafts with the exact same strategy.

[Pondering Her Percy]

No Kyle Brandt said it on good morning football last year leading up to the Thursday night game vs Washington. He actually said that his numbers were better, he played better, etc but his defenses averaged 34.2 points per game given up. I’d love to know another QB that had their defense consistently play that bad during prime time throughout their career. I can guarantee nobody touches 34.2 points per game. And if they somehow did, I can sure as shi# guarantee you that QB doesn’t have anywhere near a winning prime time record

Either you are remembering the stat wrong or Brandt was wrong.

No I don’t believe it is either one of those. I distinctly remember Brandt saying that before the Washington game. He broke down all the games and figured all the averages. This isn’t the first time I posted it on here either

[Pondering Her Percy]

You make a fair point. The QB contributes proportionately more to the outcome on offense than any other single offensive player which is why QBs make so much.

Let's just agree that Cousins is a competent QB who can win with solid play around him. He's not a guy who is going to necessarily devise miracles and conjure something out of nothing, but if the team plays well he will win more than he loses and can win the big games.

If we can agree that is a fair description of Cousins, then who is/was available that is a better option? Mannion is not a better option. He'll be paid far less and will likely perform in ways that would detract from an otherwise competent team performance. The same could be said for a lot of other guys who are available either through trade or FA.

So Spielman has Cousins under center. If the Vikings get rid of him, the only way that makes sense to me is if they find a better QB. I just don't see who that QB would be. Maybe they could have drafted one. Maybe they could have even aggressively moved up to draft one. But there are no guarantees in the draft, and in this particular draft I certainly didn't see a QB prospect I thought was better than even odds to become a competent starter over time. IMHO, the first guy off the board in this last draft is likely to have a pro career that will more resemble Kirk Cousins' career than it will Drew Brees' career.

It just isn't worth complaining about at this point. Yeah, the Vikings have a lot invested at QB. Yeah, they probably aren't getting, nor are going to get, the superlative level of play at the position from Cousins that other teams get with some other highly paid veteran QBs. But I'd argue that doesn't matter, both because there are no surefire better options at the position (highly-paid or not), but also because teams can get to and win Superbowls with lower levels of performance than the Vikings have gotten from Kirk Cousins. Cousins hovers at the border between the really good and good starting QBs in the league. The Vikings are probably overpaying him for what they get, but I don't think they could get anything better than that for any amount of money, at least right now.

I don't like that the Vikings have seemingly ignored the QB position in the draft, but even there, their draft position hasn't put them in a great position to take a flyer on a solid prospect in most years. All things being equal, I prefer the draft to be played in a way similar to how Spielman is playing it, that being taking obvious value where it presents itself and, where it doesn't, trading back for more swings.

Honestly, I was a lot more worried about the offensive line heading into this season than the QB, RB, TE or WR positions. In nearly every game the Vikings got whacked last year it was because the offensive line just couldn't get it done running or passing. Cousins caught some well-deserved flak for his contributions to those losses, but from where I sat I didn't see another QB doing much better with the play in front of him. Hopefully that improves this season, and I think if it does Cousins is going to have a great year.

This neglects the impact of the salary cap. Resources, in this case money, is limited and when you invest so much in one player that by definition means less to put on everyone else. So you can’t have the perfect OL, great defense and all the other tools Cousins needs to succeed. In short, like you said Cousins isn’t a guy that elevates the play of those around him and that’s what you need to do with a contract of his size.

I don’t mind Rick grabbing Cousins and taking a shot but I do disagree with the extension when he’s clearly not the guy that is putting this team over the top. Not to mention Ricks drafting strategy that regardless of draft position he continues to neglect the QB position. 15 draft picks and still waiting until the 7th round really emphasizes this. And it’s not just this year, we have over a decade of drafts with the exact same strategy.

Then I guess I don’t understand where you think we should’ve taken a QB. A while back I also broke down the starting QBs for every team, where they were drafted and the chances of us hitting on anything outside of the top of the first round. The chances were as slim as slim gets. So whether we took a QB in the 4th vs the 7th round, the outcome is very much the same more often than not. You’re getting a decent backup at best or a guy that gets cut at worst. Our options this year were Hurts, Eason, Fromm and a slew of wildcards. I can honestly say I don’t see a single one of them ever panning out or becoming any sort of legitimate starter.

[S197]

This neglects the impact of the salary cap. Resources, in this case money, is limited and when you invest so much in one player that by definition means less to put on everyone else. So you can’t have the perfect OL, great defense and all the other tools Cousins needs to succeed. In short, like you said Cousins isn’t a guy that elevates the play of those around him and that’s what you need to do with a contract of his size.

I don’t mind Rick grabbing Cousins and taking a shot but I do disagree with the extension when he’s clearly not the guy that is putting this team over the top. Not to mention Ricks drafting strategy that regardless of draft position he continues to neglect the QB position. 15 draft picks and still waiting until the 7th round really emphasizes this. And it’s not just this year, we have over a decade of drafts with the exact same strategy.

Then I guess I don’t understand where you think we should’ve taken a QB. A while back I also broke down the starting QBs for every team, where they were drafted and the chances of us hitting on anything outside of the top of the first round. The chances were as slim as slim gets. So whether we took a QB in the 4th vs the 7th round, the outcome is very much the same more often than not. You’re getting a decent backup at best or a guy that gets cut at worst. Our options this year were Hurts, Eason, Fromm and a slew of wildcards. I can honestly say I don’t see a single one of them ever panning out or becoming any sort of legitimate starter.

The last guy we drafted mid-round was John David Booty well over a decade ago. Are you saying we haven’t had an opportunity to draft anyone since then? And it’s all the more ironic considering we’re giving a 4th round pick who was taken to be a backup a mega contract. I’m pretty sure we would’ve done better with Dak Prescott or Jacoby Brissett than Willie Beavers. That’s purely hindsight driven, I’ll admit that, but it shows why you need to take those chances. Because sometimes you do find a Prescott, Wilson, Cousins, etc. in the mid rounds. Even if the hit rate is low, the importance of the position is so high it’s simply a risk you need to take once in a while.

I think Eason has a pretty good shot. Hurts went early otherwise he would be a contender. At the very least he can play a Taysom Hill type of role for a team.

You miss 100% of the shots you never take. Rick doesn’t take shots. Forget about this year, you can look over his entire career here and the narrative fits.

[StumpHunter]

Either you are remembering the stat wrong or Brandt was wrong.

No I don’t believe it is either one of those. I distinctly remember Brandt saying that before the Washington game. He broke down all the games and figured all the averages. This isn’t the first time I posted it on here either

You can look at his game logs and see that couldn't possible be true :

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 0/gamelog/

[StumpHunter]

You make a fair point. The QB contributes proportionately more to the outcome on offense than any other single offensive player which is why QBs make so much.

Let's just agree that Cousins is a competent QB who can win with solid play around him. He's not a guy who is going to necessarily devise miracles and conjure something out of nothing, but if the team plays well he will win more than he loses and can win the big games.

I agree with this. Cousins is the most consistent QB we have had play for the Vikings. For some that is enough, and they are happy with a guy who will put up decent numbers and not lose us games against lesser competition, like a rookie or lesser QB might.

Some are happy with that consistency, while others see the reverse part of that consistency, how he consistently either loses games to winning teams or doesn't do enough to keep his team in games against winning ones, and realize that kind of consistency is not going to help us win a SB.

If we can agree that is a fair description of Cousins, then who is/was available that is a better option? Mannion is not a better option. He'll be paid far less and will likely perform in ways that would detract from an otherwise competent team performance. The same could be said for a lot of other guys who are available either through trade or FA.

So Spielman has Cousins under center. If the Vikings get rid of him, the only way that makes sense to me is if they find a better QB. I just don't see who that QB would be. Maybe they could have drafted one. Maybe they could have even aggressively moved up to draft one. But there are no guarantees in the draft, and in this particular draft I certainly didn't see a QB prospect I thought was better than even odds to become a competent starter over time. IMHO, the first guy off the board in this last draft is likely to have a pro career that will more resemble Kirk Cousins' career than it will Drew Brees' career.

There were options who were better, or at least as good for less money in 2017, 2018 and 2019.
2017: The most realistic move the Vikings could have made outside of Cousins was sticking with Case for a year or two and drafting the QBOTF, Lamar Jackson.

2018: Let's say the Vikings don't draft Jackson and Case sucks for us as much as he did the Broncos, Ryan Tannehill is a Zimmer/Rick type QB. 7 million for a guy who put up better numbers than Cousins seems like a good deal (I hate his extension, but it has an easy out after the 2021 season)

2019: Let's say the Vikings went with Flacco in 2018 instead of Tannehill, and still have drafted a QBOTF. They have a shot at the greatest QB of all time. Past his prime, but the odds of him making this current team a SB contender are better than Cousins, imo.

3 off seasons, at least 3 QBs who would have been better options. My guess is that number goes up as time passes.

It just isn't worth complaining about at this point. Yeah, the Vikings have a lot invested at QB. Yeah, they probably aren't getting, nor are going to get, the superlative level of play at the position from Cousins that other teams get with some other highly paid veteran QBs. But I'd argue that doesn't matter, both because there are no surefire better options at the position (highly-paid or not), but also because teams can get to and win Superbowls with lower levels of performance than the Vikings have gotten from Kirk Cousins. Cousins hovers at the border between the really good and good starting QBs in the league. The Vikings are probably overpaying him for what they get, but I don't think they could get anything better than that for any amount of money, at least right now.

It isn't worth complaining about. I only responded to this thread because it was yet another Cousins apology piece that isn't needed. We don't need to go back to Washington to make excuses for why he failed there, we have seen what type of QB he is in MN. An above average QB who struggles against the better teams in the NFL.

I don't like that the Vikings have seemingly ignored the QB position in the draft, but even there, their draft position hasn't put them in a great position to take a flyer on a solid prospect in most years. All things being equal, I prefer the draft to be played in a way similar to how Spielman is playing it, that being taking obvious value where it presents itself and, where it doesn't, trading back for more swings.

Honestly, I was a lot more worried about the offensive line heading into this season than the QB, RB, TE or WR positions. In nearly every game the Vikings got whacked last year it was because the offensive line just couldn't get it done running or passing. Cousins caught some well-deserved flak for his contributions to those losses, but from where I sat I didn't see another QB doing much better with the play in front of him. Hopefully that improves this season, and I think if it does Cousins is going to have a great year.

I am glad you brought this up. The Vikings aren't worried about the Oline and didn't feel it was that bad last year. So while you don't think any QB could have done better behind that line, they go into the off season, cut a RG, but pretty much stand pat on the Oline otherwise. I don't see any way Cleveland starts this year, and I think there is a good chance the line is Reiff, Elf, Bradbury, Samia/whoever wins that competition, and O'Neil.

I feel the same way about the Oline as I do the QB. It is fine against lesser competition, but struggles against the better teams. The Vikings feel that is good enough for both the QB and Oline, because that is good enough to win enough games for management to keep their jobs. I am not okay with it because it isn't good enough to win the SB.

[VikingsVictorious]

You make a fair point. The QB contributes proportionately more to the outcome on offense than any other single offensive player which is why QBs make so much.

Let's just agree that Cousins is a competent QB who can win with solid play around him. He's not a guy who is going to necessarily devise miracles and conjure something out of nothing, but if the team plays well he will win more than he loses and can win the big games.

If we can agree that is a fair description of Cousins, then who is/was available that is a better option? Mannion is not a better option. He'll be paid far less and will likely perform in ways that would detract from an otherwise competent team performance. The same could be said for a lot of other guys who are available either through trade or FA.

So Spielman has Cousins under center. If the Vikings get rid of him, the only way that makes sense to me is if they find a better QB. I just don't see who that QB would be. Maybe they could have drafted one. Maybe they could have even aggressively moved up to draft one. But there are no guarantees in the draft, and in this particular draft I certainly didn't see a QB prospect I thought was better than even odds to become a competent starter over time. IMHO, the first guy off the board in this last draft is likely to have a pro career that will more resemble Kirk Cousins' career than it will Drew Brees' career.

It just isn't worth complaining about at this point. Yeah, the Vikings have a lot invested at QB. Yeah, they probably aren't getting, nor are going to get, the superlative level of play at the position from Cousins that other teams get with some other highly paid veteran QBs. But I'd argue that doesn't matter, both because there are no surefire better options at the position (highly-paid or not), but also because teams can get to and win Superbowls with lower levels of performance than the Vikings have gotten from Kirk Cousins. Cousins hovers at the border between the really good and good starting QBs in the league. The Vikings are probably overpaying him for what they get, but I don't think they could get anything better than that for any amount of money, at least right now.

I don't like that the Vikings have seemingly ignored the QB position in the draft, but even there, their draft position hasn't put them in a great position to take a flyer on a solid prospect in most years. All things being equal, I prefer the draft to be played in a way similar to how Spielman is playing it, that being taking obvious value where it presents itself and, where it doesn't, trading back for more swings.

Honestly, I was a lot more worried about the offensive line heading into this season than the QB, RB, TE or WR positions. In nearly every game the Vikings got whacked last year it was because the offensive line just couldn't get it done running or passing. Cousins caught some well-deserved flak for his contributions to those losses, but from where I sat I didn't see another QB doing much better with the play in front of him. Hopefully that improves this season, and I think if it does Cousins is going to have a great year.

This neglects the impact of the salary cap. Resources, in this case money, is limited and when you invest so much in one player that by definition means less to put on everyone else. So you can’t have the perfect OL, great defense and all the other tools Cousins needs to succeed. In short, like you said Cousins isn’t a guy that elevates the play of those around him and that’s what you need to do with a contract of his size.

I don’t mind Rick grabbing Cousins and taking a shot but I do disagree with the extension when he’s clearly not the guy that is putting this team over the top. Not to mention Ricks drafting strategy that regardless of draft position he continues to neglect the QB position. 15 draft picks and still waiting until the 7th round really emphasizes this. And it’s not just this year, we have over a decade of drafts with the exact same strategy.

I call BS on his not elevating the play of others. What a load of crap. He plays excellent QB for us and his passes being where the receivers can catch them elevates their play. He's clearly a guy that can put us over the top.

[VikingsVictorious]

Then I guess I don’t understand where you think we should’ve taken a QB. A while back I also broke down the starting QBs for every team, where they were drafted and the chances of us hitting on anything outside of the top of the first round. The chances were as slim as slim gets. So whether we took a QB in the 4th vs the 7th round, the outcome is very much the same more often than not. You’re getting a decent backup at best or a guy that gets cut at worst. Our options this year were Hurts, Eason, Fromm and a slew of wildcards. I can honestly say I don’t see a single one of them ever panning out or becoming any sort of legitimate starter.

The last guy we drafted mid-round was John David Booty well over a decade ago. Are you saying we haven’t had an opportunity to draft anyone since then? And it’s all the more ironic considering we’re giving a 4th round pick who was taken to be a backup a mega contract. I’m pretty sure we would’ve done better with Dak Prescott or Jacoby Brissett than Willie Beavers. That’s purely hindsight driven, I’ll admit that, but it shows why you need to take those chances. Because sometimes you do find a Prescott, Wilson, Cousins, etc. in the mid rounds. Even if the hit rate is low, the importance of the position is so high it’s simply a risk you need to take once in a while.

I think Eason has a pretty good shot. Hurts went early otherwise he would be a contender. At the very least he can play a Taysom Hill type of role for a team.

You miss 100% of the shots you never take. Rick doesn’t take shots. Forget about this year, you can look over his entire career here and the narrative fits.

This is a pretty good analysis. If I were in charge I may have taken the best QB available with the pick we used on Wonnum. Was Eason or Fromm still available.