Vikings Message Board.Com

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:30 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:04 am
If we make the playoffs we will eventually have to meet SF along the way. They can play D. Saints also play some D. We are doing what need's to be done against these teams. That's much better than laying an egg. IMO can our D match up to those teams. Even against GB can our D contain Rodgers to allow us to put up 24 and win. I don't know if we can hold Rodgers to under 24. That is the bigger question.

Our D already did hold Rodgers to under 24...

Dames wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:22 pm That could happen in either game, and we have yet to see if we have a team that can overcome 2nd half deficit. I think we've had the lead early in all our wins. We were down by 14 vs Detroit in the 2nd Qtr I think, but other than that we have not had to make any comebacks, have we? We fell short in the comeback vs GB, even though were were in position, and we even had chances vs Chi that we couldn't pull off.

I think we go 3-1. 2-2 at worst. We could easily have an off game vs Dal or KC, but I doubt both.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:18 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:40 pm
You say that because that's what you want it to be. I have been saying this since week 4. Diggs and Thielen were after Zim and the OCs, not Cousins. David Carr said the same thing on NFL live. He said the design of these pass plays were like something you see in high school. He also said, why would Diggs and Thielen be mad at Cousins?? Kirk Cousins gave them BOTH the BEST season of their careers last year. They are well aware of what Kirk can do when it comes to throwing the ball. Whats new is this offense and how it is ran. And early on, this offense was not utilizing either of those WRs like it should have. This team had an average to below average year last year and did you hear Thielen or Diggs complain? Or lets say, call out their QB? No not once. This year, we were losing PLUS they were hardly touching the ball. Then they decide to speak out. If I'm a star WR and my QB just gave me the best season of my career one year prior, I'm not calling out my QB. I know what he can do. But come the following year, if I'm not touching the ball, I'm ticked at the coaches. Not my QB.

The media blew this out of proportion saying it was all directed at Cousins. They said that because they know that's what makes a good story. Not one of them dropped Cousins name and David Carr made a great point. Especially given the fact that he went back and watched the film and the lack of effort and creativity in the passing game was quite obvious. Nobody else looks at it that way, they just point to what makes a good story. And you just look at it that way because that's one more bullet in your gun that you can fire off when Cousins doesnt play well. You refuse to see it any other way.

Cousins apologized to Theilen because he was calling out the coaches? Interesting theory.

At some point, you're not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL. That's when you have to be able to throw the ball. … You have to be able to hit the deep balls.

Wow, he really hammered Zimmer with that one.

I watched the film of that Bears game too, every drop back from the all 22. Posted the video on here so everyone else could as well.

I can't say if the play calls were simplistic or not, I am not qualified to make that kind of speculation. I will say others watched the film who WERE qualified and Carr was the only one calling it a High School offense. Possibly he was trying to come at it from a different angle to keep his entertainment show entertaining? I can also say that if the offense was simplistic, guys were still open and Cousins just missed them. That was clear even to my untrained eye.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:40 pm
How is 21 passes vs 28 rushes vs Oakland not balanced but 36 passes to 16 rushes was balanced vs. Chicago??

Rushing more than passing is not balanced in today’s NFL. I guess I don’t understand what you mean by balance. Passing more than running, running more than passing? The exact same number of rushes as passes? Help me out here.

The Vikings went into that Bears game intending to have a balanced attack. EXECUTION, made them have to throw a bunch late in the 3rd and the 4th. In the first half they had 11 passes to 10 rushes. Seems balanced to me.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:40 pm It's not that simple. Against Chicago, the run game wasnt working so we were forced to become one dimensional. We weren’t finding ways to keep the defense on their toes. We werent utilizing roll outs like we are now and thats a big reason why the sack number was so inflated that game. Chicago knew when we were going to run and knew when we were going to pass. In the last 4 games, for the most part, I couldn’t have told you what play was going to be a run or a pass. Early on, I could have called a solid 80%+ of pass plays vs run plays.

Your entire post here was nothing other than looking at the surface of things....weird

I thought all the roll outs were the reason Cousins was holding the ball so long in that Bears and Packers game?

The Vikings did not go from a simple High School offense in that Bears game to a complicated one in weeks 5, 6, 7, and 8. It is the same offense with some minor tweaks and adjustments that every team makes from week to week. The biggest difference is the competition and the execution.

It is okay for players to have a bad game or two early in the season you know.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:54 pm I know the 6-2 Vikings are on a 4 game win streak, having beaten some pretty, well, average teams, but it might be getting a bit ahead of things to speculate on Stefanski's potential, both as an OC and as a head coach.

I'll be a lot more inclined to believe hype like this if the Vikings make the playoffs and make some noise in the playoffs, as well as to see how well the offense overall does against better defenses. As it stands the offense was pretty poor against the best defense they've faced so far (Bears), and sputtered early against the Packers. Yes, that's within the first 4 games of the season and maybe things have turned around, but we're only talking about 8 total games to sample so far.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:39 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:54 pm I know the 6-2 Vikings are on a 4 game win streak, having beaten some pretty, well, average teams, but it might be getting a bit ahead of things to speculate on Stefanski's potential, both as an OC and as a head coach.

I'll be a lot more inclined to believe hype like this if the Vikings make the playoffs and make some noise in the playoffs, as well as to see how well the offense overall does against better defenses. As it stands the offense was pretty poor against the best defense they've faced so far (Bears), and sputtered early against the Packers. Yes, that's within the first 4 games of the season and maybe things have turned around, but we're only talking about 8 total games to sample so far.

I agree, even with the Cousins praise. Just a few weeks ago, this board was ready to fire everyone, let go all the players, and blow up the stadium. Now we think the Vikings have the best OC and an elite QB? Vikings have had a soft patch in their schedule. This week will be a good test. Aggressive defense, playing outdoors in a hostile environment. Not a true test to where this team is since Mahomes is out but a good test. I do think it was a good sign last week. One of those games that the Vikings usually lay an egg (heavily favored, at home, vs a 1 win team). Even though they struggled against WAS who was giving up 28ppg, and with Haskins at QB (who really has no business being on the field right now), the main thing is they won. I hope we see a good gameplan VS KC, and a QB that will stay poised in the pocket, adjust to the pressure, and make good decisions.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:18 pm
Cousins apologized to Theilen because he was calling out the coaches? Interesting theory.

At some point, you're not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL. That's when you have to be able to throw the ball. … You have to be able to hit the deep balls.
Wow, he really hammered Zimmer with that one.

I watched the film of that Bears game too, every drop back from the all 22. Posted the video on here so everyone else could as well.

I can't say if the play calls were simplistic or not, I am not qualified to make that kind of speculation. I will say others watched the film who WERE qualified and Carr was the only one calling it a High School offense. Possibly he was trying to come at it from a different angle to keep his entertainment show entertaining? I can also say that if the offense was simplistic, guys were still open and Cousins just missed them. That was clear even to my untrained eye.

Rushing more than passing is not balanced in today’s NFL. I guess I don’t understand what you mean by balance. Passing more than running, running more than passing? The exact same number of rushes as passes? Help me out here.

The Vikings went into that Bears game intending to have a balanced attack. EXECUTION, made them have to throw a bunch late in the 3rd and the 4th. In the first half they had 11 passes to 10 rushes. Seems balanced to me.

I thought all the roll outs were the reason Cousins was holding the ball so long in that Bears and Packers game?

The Vikings did not go from a simple High School offense in that Bears game to a complicated one in weeks 5, 6, 7, and 8. It is the same offense with some minor tweaks and adjustments that every team makes from week to week. The biggest difference is the competition and the execution.

It is okay for players to have a bad game or two early in the season you know.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:00 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:18 pm
Cousins apologized to Theilen because he was calling out the coaches? Interesting theory.

Somebody is going to take the blame. That's a good teammate if you ask me. And Cousins apologized for overthrowing the deep balls. There was more issues with this offense at the time than just deep balls. The WRs knew that and that's why they spoke out.

At some point, you're not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL. That's when you have to be able to throw the ball. … You have to be able to hit the deep balls.
Wow, he really hammered Zimmer with that one.

The way I look at it, Zimmer became over reliant on the run. Thought that could win us games with little passing. The Atlanta game didnt help that. The first line of Thielens quote says it all.

I watched the film of that Bears game too, every drop back from the all 22. Posted the video on here so everyone else could as well.

I can't say if the play calls were simplistic or not, I am not qualified to make that kind of speculation. I will say others watched the film who WERE qualified and Carr was the only one calling it a High School offense. Possibly he was trying to come at it from a different angle to keep his entertainment show entertaining? I can also say that if the offense was simplistic, guys were still open and Cousins just missed them. That was clear even to my untrained eye.

I'm pretty sure a former NFL QB is more than qualified to make that comment. Sure there were some guys open on certain plays but there were plenty of plays where that wasnt the case either. You need to look at both sides here. Not just the "Cousins is at fault" side that you always hover in.

Rushing more than passing is not balanced in today’s NFL. I guess I don’t understand what you mean by balance. Passing more than running, running more than passing? The exact same number of rushes as passes? Help me out here.

The Vikings went into that Bears game intending to have a balanced attack. EXECUTION, made them have to throw a bunch late in the 3rd and the 4th. In the first half they had 11 passes to 10 rushes. Seems balanced to me.

You're contradicting yourself here. You're saying rushing more than passing is not balanced. But in the first half there was hardly a difference in the two but you're saying "that seems balanced to me".

Balance is not only the amount of times you run and pass but also being unpredictable as an OC. The 2nd half we passed 31 times and ran 5 times. Zero balance, completely predictable, zero creativity and one dimensional. We became one dimensional in the 2nd half when there was no reason to. We were down 10-0. Hell, we were down 21-0 to GB and kept running the ball. We go down 10-0 to Chicago and pulled a "Flip", panicked and threw the whole half. At that point, Chicago could pin their ears back and rush the passer with their front 4 and sit back and play the pass. New England and Seattle did that to us last year because they KNEW we wouldnt run. Chicago did the same damn thing.

I thought all the roll outs were the reason Cousins was holding the ball so long in that Bears and Packers game?

The Vikings did not go from a simple High School offense in that Bears game to a complicated one in weeks 5, 6, 7, and 8. It is the same offense with some minor tweaks and adjustments that every team makes from week to week. The biggest difference is the competition and the execution.

It is okay for players to have a bad game or two early in the season you know.

Here is part of the problem, any time I "defend" Cousins you think I'm saying he played good and that you're wrong. Never did I say that. He played terrible. But at the same time, the offense turned into being one dimensional, they couldnt adjust and it turned into what it was when Flip was here. One dimensional.

This offense has drastically changed since week 4. What has changed is the play calling and how Stefanski has become unpredictable. And I dont know how you say it didnt change other than minor tweaks when you're not on the practice field and you dont know what new wrinkles and plays they are putting in. Since week 4 we are throwing at times on first down, utilizing more roll outs, running reverses, you dont know what's coming. In the first 4 weeks, you knew exactly what was coming. Bottom line is, they've made some big adjustments. Flip wouldnt adjust his playcalling. Stefanski/Kubiak made it a point to change their playcalling. THAT is the difference. The reason we are executing is because of the unpredictability. It's not just as simple as playing bad weeks 1-4 and playing good weeks 5-8. Defenses dont know what's coming and instead of having to worry about just Dalvin Cook weeks 1-4, they have to worry about Kirk Cousins and our pass catchers on top of it. And they dont know who the ball is going to or when. THAT is balancing an offense.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:39 pm Even though they struggled against WAS who was giving up 28ppg, and with Haskins at QB (who really has no business being on the field right now), the main thing is they won.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:12 pm

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:39 pm Even though they struggled against WAS who was giving up 28ppg, and with Haskins at QB (who really has no business being on the field right now), the main thing is they won.

I'm not sure they struggled against Washington. They didn't hit a lot of big plays down the field and they didn't score TDs, but they quietly won the time of possession battle handidly by the end and piled up over 400 yards of total offense. Had they punch the ball into the endzone instead of settling for field goals, it would have been a proper blowout.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:10 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:00 am

Somebody is going to take the blame. That's a good teammate if you ask me. And Cousins apologized for overthrowing the deep balls. There was more issues with this offense at the time than just deep balls. The WRs knew that and that's why they spoke out.



The way I look at it, Zimmer became over reliant on the run. Thought that could win us games with little passing. The Atlanta game didnt help that. The first line of Thielens quote says it all.



I'm pretty sure a former NFL QB is more than qualified to make that comment. Sure there were some guys open on certain plays but there were plenty of plays where that wasnt the case either. You need to look at both sides here. Not just the "Cousins is at fault" side that you always hover in.





You're contradicting yourself here. You're saying rushing more than passing is not balanced. But in the first half there was hardly a difference in the two but you're saying "that seems balanced to me".

Balance is not only the amount of times you run and pass but also being unpredictable as an OC. The 2nd half we passed 31 times and ran 5 times. Zero balance, completely predictable, zero creativity and one dimensional. We became one dimensional in the 2nd half when there was no reason to. We were down 10-0. Hell, we were down 21-0 to GB and kept running the ball. We go down 10-0 to Chicago and pulled a "Flip", panicked and threw the whole half. At that point, Chicago could pin their ears back and rush the passer with their front 4 and sit back and play the pass. New England and Seattle did that to us last year because they KNEW we wouldnt run. Chicago did the same damn thing.






Here is part of the problem, any time I "defend" Cousins you think I'm saying he played good and that you're wrong. Never did I say that. He played terrible. But at the same time, the offense turned into being one dimensional, they couldnt adjust and it turned into what it was when Flip was here. One dimensional.

This offense has drastically changed since week 4. What has changed is the play calling and how Stefanski has become unpredictable. And I dont know how you say it didnt change other than minor tweaks when you're not on the practice field and you dont know what new wrinkles and plays they are putting in. Since week 4 we are throwing at times on first down, utilizing more roll outs, running reverses, you dont know what's coming. In the first 4 weeks, you knew exactly what was coming. Bottom line is, they've made some big adjustments. Flip wouldnt adjust his playcalling. Stefanski/Kubiak made it a point to change their playcalling. THAT is the difference. The reason we are executing is because of the unpredictability. It's not just as simple as playing bad weeks 1-4 and playing good weeks 5-8. Defenses dont know what's coming and instead of having to worry about just Dalvin Cook weeks 1-4, they have to worry about Kirk Cousins and our pass catchers on top of it. And they dont know who the ball is going to or when. THAT is balancing an offense.

Execution of passing and run plays brings balance. You can call all the right plays, and if your QB overthrows his open receiver by 5 yards, it isn't going force the defense to respect the pass. If your RB gets stopped behind the line of scrimmage every other rush, it isn't going to force the defense to respect the run.

I like what Stefanski has been doing from the beginning. Implementing a zone blocking scheme that fits his RB's style has been a great decision. When the execution has been there, his play calling has also been great. That 4th down pass play in the Bears game was a brilliant play call AND good execution by the QB and WR. There was the roll out to Theilen in the Giants game I believe? where the defense had no shot. Lots of examples where Stefanski has identified a weakness on the defense, and exploited it. Even in that Bears and GB game.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:12 pm

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:39 pm Even though they struggled against WAS who was giving up 28ppg, and with Haskins at QB (who really has no business being on the field right now), the main thing is they won.

I'm not sure they struggled against Washington. They didn't hit a lot of big plays down the field and they didn't score TDs, but they quietly won the time of possession battle handidly by the end and piled up over 400 yards of total offense. Had they punch the ball into the endzone instead of settling for field goals, it would have been a proper blowout.

808vikingsfan post wrote: Just a few weeks ago, this board was ready to fire everyone, let go all the players, and blow up the stadium.

Purple Domination wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:08 pm

808vikingsfan post wrote: Just a few weeks ago, this board was ready to fire everyone, let go all the players, and blow up the stadium.

This comment inspired me to go back and read the post Bears game thread. Amazing how the mood has changed around here!

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:15 am Here is execute carry out or put into effect (a plan, order, or course of action). Against the Bears we did execute. The plan was followed having a guy that's not a great blocker take on Mack. Execution wasn't the problem having the wrong player taking the course of action was the problem. I don't care if a team executes perfectly if the skill level is far below the opponents level it won't matter. That's were our OC swung and missed. You need to match guys up and if the skill level isn't there then they need help. Skill level is much more important than some buzzword like execute. I watched LT for many years and it wasn't execution or ever knowing the D call. He dominated based on superior skill level. You couldn't block him.