The list of Vikings players that should not be back next year!!!

[StumpHunter]

Just wanted to use this opportunity to point out how silly the "we don't need high picks on the oline" argument is. As many of your have pointed out, we have 3 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in a position that usually has 2-3 players on the field. We have 0 1st rounders on our oline that is constantly with 5 on the field. Both positional groups play as a unit out there. Its absurd.

If we dont draft and OL in the first round but draft one in the second, why is that wrong? We drafted O'Neill last year in the 2nd and he was arguably the best OT in the draft (at least from a pass blocking perspective). Just because you pick a first round OL doesnt mean it was the right choice. They could easily but like a Levi Brown or Robert Gallery or they could be all pro's. It's about assessing their talent the correct way. If we're up and there isnt a OL there that we think is worthy of that pick and there is a top DT or TE out there, we shouldnt pull the trigger? I've said this before but I hope we dont go into this draft with OL goggles on and pass up on a better talent just because every analyst and fan out there are screaming take a guard. I'm completely find with them waiting until round 2 this year. There are going to be some good players there. And that's where a lot of the guards are going to be sitting. Most of the first round OL are tackles that "could" switch to guard. The "true" guards are going to be in the 2nd and 3rd round.

So keep up the status quo and continue to neglect the line? How is that working out for the Vikes?

[Pondering Her Percy]

If we dont draft and OL in the first round but draft one in the second, why is that wrong? We drafted O'Neill last year in the 2nd and he was arguably the best OT in the draft (at least from a pass blocking perspective). Just because you pick a first round OL doesnt mean it was the right choice. They could easily but like a Levi Brown or Robert Gallery or they could be all pro's. It's about assessing their talent the correct way. If we're up and there isnt a OL there that we think is worthy of that pick and there is a top DT or TE out there, we shouldnt pull the trigger? I've said this before but I hope we dont go into this draft with OL goggles on and pass up on a better talent just because every analyst and fan out there are screaming take a guard. I'm completely fine with them waiting until round 2 this year. There are going to be some good players there. And that's where a lot of the guards are going to be sitting. Most of the first round OL are tackles that "could" switch to guard. The "true" guards are going to be in the 2nd and 3rd round.

So keep up the status quo and continue to neglect the line? How is that working out for the Vikes?

Just because you dont draft an offensive lineman in the first round doesnt mean you're "neglecting" the OL. What kind of reasoning is that? Did we neglect MLB because we took Kendricks in the 2nd? I'm not saying wait until the 5th round to draft one. That is neglecting it. But if you pass on an offensive lineman in round 1 but draft one in round 2 that is in no way, shape or form neglecting the offensive line. If 1st round OL are either gone by our pick or the only guys on the board we dont like and there is someone better out there at another position, you draft that other position. It doesnt just go for OL. It goes for any position for the most part. We didnt NEED Randy Moss in 1998. We needed a lot of defensive help, but you dont pass him up. This roster is good enough to take BPA. If an offensive lineman isnt there, dont take one just to take one. That's the definition of bad drafting. The earliest pick on the Patriots OL is a 4th rounder. If we have a couple 2nd rounders on our OL, I'm pretty sure we'd be fine. You dont need first rounders on your OL to have a good one. If Spielman just pleased everyone and drafted a guard in the 1st when he was a day 2 talent, and that guard just ends up being average, there are a few on here that would be the first to say "Spielman doesnt know how to draft offensive lineman". Well some of you are asking for it. Some are so honed in on offensive line in round 1. The next John Randle could be sitting there at 18. But hey we need a guard so lets pass on him just to draft a second day talent guard at 18. That is bad drafting. We have to weigh out options when we are up at 18. If a top guard like Lindstrom is there, then draft him. If he's not and it's maybe one or two OT's that dont really fit this system or we dont like, dont take them. Take the BPA. The 2nd and 3rd round will be loaded with guards. There are roughly 1-2 TRUE guards that could go in the first round and it probably wont be any earlier than 16ish is my guess. Maybe Lindstrom could sneak higher. But the point is, it's not like talented guards just end after round 1. I could list about 6-7 guards that we could take between rounds 2-3, maybe into round 4 but I dont want to wait that long. Anything in rounds 2-3 I am fine with. But either way, we dont need to take an OL in round 1 and if we dont but take one a round after, that is not neglecting the OL

[halfgiz]

In all the years Rick has been with the Vikings as GM he has yet to put together an offensive Line of any quality.
So it probably won't matter what round he picks OL.

[PurpleKoolaid]

In all the years Rick has been with the Vikings as GM he has yet to put together an offensive Line of any quality.
So it probably won't matter what round he picks OL.

Exactly. I think its partially out coaches fault for not being able to coach up right after they are drafted. All the trash Rick has picked up this year on the Oline, including Kline, isnt going to help. Just have to hope Kubiak and Co. can get the job done.

[Pondering Her Percy]

In all the years Rick has been with the Vikings as GM he has yet to put together an offensive Line of any quality.
So it probably won't matter what round he picks OL.

Yeah we haven’t had much of an OL. But with a good draft this year, there’s no reason to believe we won’t have at least an average one this year. Kline will be fine at RG. If we get a solid guard and maybe even a tackle, this line can be very good. He picked an offensive lineman in round 2 last year that didn’t allow a single sack all year. Only 3 other lineman to ever do it. His last two “early picks” in O’Neill and Elflein have been fairly solid. Elflien had a down year but had two trash cans on each side of him. Put him next to Kline and a guy like Lindstrom and you’ll see a new pat Elflein IMO. It kills me when guys are down on Kline. One bad year and it’s like he’s the worst lineman in the world. He’s a better overall guard than Mike Remmers. And he’s known for his pass blocking. Which is what we need. 3 straight years of a top 30 PFF grade and then one bad year and he’s awful? Ok? Then my guess is, you’ve never watched Josh Kline play. He’s not great but he’s certainly not as bad as some are portraying. That’s just saying he’s bad because you saw ONE PFF grade. Pretty unreliable assessment if you ask me. Xavier Rhodes was graded as one of the worst CBs in football, should we have cut him? Just because of 1 year?

Guys want us to sign offensive lineman, we do, and they complain. Guys want us to draft offensive lineman, we do and they still complain. If we sign any of the “bigger money” guards, we don’t get Barr back and create another hole. We sign Kline who’s better than a guy like Billy Turner, and still sign Barr. I’m not sure how that’s not a win. We got two players in that move. Or instead, we overpay yet another free agent offensive lineman and don’t get Barr. We saw what handing Reiff and Remmers big money did. Why do it again? Why not get a lower risk higher reward type guard along with a higher draft pick? Guys are acting like we missed out on all these top FA offensive lineman. We didn’t. The class was terrible. Then we simply sign depth guys and Spielman is an idiot for doing that too. Prior to Kline, we had one guard on the roster in Isidora. We need depth. It’s not like Rodger Saffold is sitting out there for us to sign for vet minimum and have as depth. It doesn’t work that way. Saying Spielman signed a bunch of trash then what’s he suppose to do? Not sign depth? And hope we don’t get injured? Like come on. Let’s be realistic here

[halfgiz]

In all the years Rick has been with the Vikings as GM he has yet to put together an offensive Line of any quality.
So it probably won't matter what round he picks OL.

Yeah we haven’t had much of an OL. But with a good draft this year, there’s no reason to believe we won’t have at least an average one this year. Kline will be fine at RG. If we get a solid guard and maybe even a tackle, this line can be very good. He picked an offensive lineman in round 2 last year that didn’t allow a single sack all year. Only 3 other lineman to ever do it. His last two “early picks” in O’Neill and Elflein have been fairly solid. Elflien had a down year but had two trash cans on each side of him. Put him next to Kline and a guy like Lindstrom and you’ll see a new pat Elflein IMO. It kills me when guys are down on Kline. One bad year and it’s like he’s the worst lineman in the world. He’s a better overall guard than Mike Remmers. And he’s known for his pass blocking. Which is what we need. 3 straight years of a top 30 PFF grade and then one bad year and he’s awful? Ok? Then my guess is, you’ve never watched Josh Kline play. He’s not great but he’s certainly not as bad as some are portraying. That’s just saying he’s bad because you saw ONE PFF grade. Pretty unreliable assessment if you ask me. Xavier Rhodes was graded as one of the worst CBs in football, should we have cut him? Just because of 1 year?

Guys want us to sign offensive lineman, we do, and they complain. Guys want us to draft offensive lineman, we do and they still complain. If we sign any of the “bigger money” guards, we don’t get Barr back and create another hole. We sign Kline who’s better than a guy like Billy Turner, and still sign Barr. I’m not sure how that’s not a win. We got two players in that move. Or instead, we overpay yet another free agent offensive lineman and don’t get Barr. We saw what handing Reiff and Remmers big money did. Why do it again? Why not get a lower risk higher reward type guard along with a higher draft pick? Guys are acting like we missed out on all these top FA offensive lineman. We didn’t. The class was terrible. Then we simply sign depth guys and Spielman is an idiot for doing that too. Prior to Kline, we had one guard on the roster in Isidora. We need depth. It’s not like Rodger Saffold is sitting out there for us to sign for vet minimum and have as depth. It doesn’t work that way. Saying Spielman signed a bunch of trash then what’s he suppose to do? Not sign depth? And hope we don’t get injured? Like come on. Let’s be realistic here

That's because Remmers wasn’t a guard...he was an average tackle Slick Rick tried to convert.
Rick MO is signing trash and hoping they play like a tier 1 play. We havent really retained to many players he has signed.
Players he has signed or drafted. Compton, Boone, Andre Smith, Sirles, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings and I could go on....All trash.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah we haven’t had much of an OL. But with a good draft this year, there’s no reason to believe we won’t have at least an average one this year. Kline will be fine at RG. If we get a solid guard and maybe even a tackle, this line can be very good. He picked an offensive lineman in round 2 last year that didn’t allow a single sack all year. Only 3 other lineman to ever do it. His last two “early picks” in O’Neill and Elflein have been fairly solid. Elflien had a down year but had two trash cans on each side of him. Put him next to Kline and a guy like Lindstrom and you’ll see a new pat Elflein IMO. It kills me when guys are down on Kline. One bad year and it’s like he’s the worst lineman in the world. He’s a better overall guard than Mike Remmers. And he’s known for his pass blocking. Which is what we need. 3 straight years of a top 30 PFF grade and then one bad year and he’s awful? Ok? Then my guess is, you’ve never watched Josh Kline play. He’s not great but he’s certainly not as bad as some are portraying. That’s just saying he’s bad because you saw ONE PFF grade. Pretty unreliable assessment if you ask me. Xavier Rhodes was graded as one of the worst CBs in football, should we have cut him? Just because of 1 year?

Guys want us to sign offensive lineman, we do, and they complain. Guys want us to draft offensive lineman, we do and they still complain. If we sign any of the “bigger money” guards, we don’t get Barr back and create another hole. We sign Kline who’s better than a guy like Billy Turner, and still sign Barr. I’m not sure how that’s not a win. We got two players in that move. Or instead, we overpay yet another free agent offensive lineman and don’t get Barr. We saw what handing Reiff and Remmers big money did. Why do it again? Why not get a lower risk higher reward type guard along with a higher draft pick? Guys are acting like we missed out on all these top FA offensive lineman. We didn’t. The class was terrible. Then we simply sign depth guys and Spielman is an idiot for doing that too. Prior to Kline, we had one guard on the roster in Isidora. We need depth. It’s not like Rodger Saffold is sitting out there for us to sign for vet minimum and have as depth. It doesn’t work that way. Saying Spielman signed a bunch of trash then what’s he suppose to do? Not sign depth? And hope we don’t get injured? Like come on. Let’s be realistic here

That's because Remmers wasn’t a guard...he was an average tackle Slick Rick tried to convert.
Rick MO is signing trash and hoping they play like a tier 1 play. We havent really retained to many players he has signed.
Players he has signed or drafted. Compton, Boone, Andre Smith, Sirles, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings and I could go on....All trash.

Willie Beavers and Clemmings were draft picks first of all. Second, how many “tier 1” offensive lineman have hit free agency over the last few years? No less even if one did hit the market this year we didn’t have the cap room to sign one unless we let Barr walk. He’s starting to draft more offensive lineman early vs signing them. Yeah moving Remmers to Guard was dumb. Reiff is on his last shot to prove himself. My point is, paying big money for free agent offensive lineman rarely work out. The raiders did it two years ago and had “one of the best OLs in football” and where did it get them? And then they had one of the worst OL in football last year. So woohoo, they had a great line for two years and it got them nowhere. Just like signing Reiff and Remmers to big money got us nowhere. Just like the panthers paying out the as* for Kalil. Just like the packers paying out the as* for Turner. Or the bengals paying out the as* for Hart. So I have no clue what you guys expect in free agency. Worry about the draft. That’s where you’re going to find lineman for the future. Not in free agency. Guys want to complain about Kline and other depth guys we signed this year. Do you want to drop money on more guys like Reiff and Remmers? I sure hope not. So build through the draft. The draft is not here yet. Let’s assess the OL when the draft is done. Sitting here barking about signing guys like Dozier proves nothing. He’s a depth signing. He’s not a starter. Hence why he’s getting vet minimum. We need guard depth. We can’t just draft 7 guards in the draft. As for Kline, like I said, he showed well 3 consecutive years in Tennessee. Then had one bad year. That doesn’t mean he’s trash. He’s an average offensive lineman that’s been solid pass blocker for the most part. We need two guards. If we draft two guards with our first two picks, we then pass on other positions of need. I said before free agency started that our best bet would be to sign one guard and draft the other. Trying to land both starters in either FA or the draft is not a good approach. Would you not be ok with an OL of:

LT: Reiff or O’Neill
LG: Lindstrom or Elflein
C: Elflein or Bradbury/McCoy
RG: Kline
RT: O’Neill or Reiff

???

That line is already MILES better than last years. And that’s with us only selecting 1 OL before like the 3rd round. Again, let’s see what happens on draft day. Some of you act like our starting OL is going to be reiff, dozier, Elflein, Kline and O’Neill. I can 100% guarantee that won’t be the starting OL going into next year. Guys are already freaking out and the draft hasn’t even hit yet. My goodness

[halfgiz]

That's because Remmers wasn’t a guard...he was an average tackle Slick Rick tried to convert.
Rick MO is signing trash and hoping they play like a tier 1 play. We havent really retained to many players he has signed.
Players he has signed or drafted. Compton, Boone, Andre Smith, Sirles, Willie Beavers, TJ Clemmings and I could go on....All trash.

Willie Beavers and Clemmings were draft picks first of all. Second, how many “tier 1” offensive lineman have hit free agency over the last few years? No less even if one did hit the market this year we didn’t have the cap room to sign one unless we let Barr walk. He’s starting to draft more offensive lineman early vs signing them. Yeah moving Remmers to Guard was dumb. Reiff is on his last shot to prove himself. My point is, paying big money for free agent offensive lineman rarely work out. The raiders did it two years ago and had “one of the best OLs in football” and where did it get them? And then they had one of the worst OL in football last year. So woohoo, they had a great line for two years and it got them nowhere. Just like signing Reiff and Remmers to big money got us nowhere. Just like the panthers paying out the as* for Kalil. Just like the packers paying out the as* for Turner. Or the bengals paying out the as* for Hart. So I have no clue what you guys expect in free agency. Worry about the draft. That’s where you’re going to find lineman for the future. Not in free agency. Guys want to complain about Kline and other depth guys we signed this year. Do you want to drop money on more guys like Reiff and Remmers? I sure hope not. So build through the draft. The draft is not here yet. Let’s assess the OL when the draft is done. Sitting here barking about signing guys like Dozier proves nothing. He’s a depth signing. He’s not a starter. Hence why he’s getting vet minimum. We need guard depth. We can’t just draft 7 guards in the draft. As for Kline, like I said, he showed well 3 consecutive years in Tennessee. Then had one bad year. That doesn’t mean he’s trash. He’s an average offensive lineman that’s been solid pass blocker for the most part. We need two guards. If we draft two guards with our first two picks, we then pass on other positions of need. I said before free agency started that our best bet would be to sign one guard and draft the other. Trying to land both starters in either FA or the draft is not a good approach. Would you not be ok with an OL of:

LT: Reiff or O’Neill
LG: Lindstrom or Elflein
C: Elflein or Bradbury/McCoy
RG: Kline
RT: O’Neill or Reiff

???

That line is already MILES better than last years. And that’s with us only selecting 1 OL before like the 3rd round. Again, let’s see what happens on draft day. Some of you act like our starting OL is going to be reiff, dozier, Elflein, Kline and O’Neill. I can 100% guarantee that won’t be the starting OL going into next year. Guys are already freaking out and the draft hasn’t even hit yet. My goodness

You didn't even read what I wrote...All you do is go Blah Blah Blah.
I don't think with who we have now puts us miles ahead of last years line. I think there is still to many question marks. Is Elflien going to rebound, is O' Neil going to slump? Stay tune...

[YikesVikes]

Just wanted to use this opportunity to point out how silly the "we don't need high picks on the oline" argument is. As many of your have pointed out, we have 3 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in a position that usually has 2-3 players on the field. We have 0 1st rounders on our oline that is constantly with 5 on the field. Both positional groups play as a unit out there. Its absurd.

If we dont draft and OL in the first round but draft one in the second, why is that wrong? We drafted O'Neill last year in the 2nd and he was arguably the best OT in the draft (at least from a pass blocking perspective). Just because you pick a first round OL doesnt mean it was the right choice. They could easily but like a Levi Brown or Robert Gallery or they could be all pro's. It's about assessing their talent the correct way. If we're up and there isnt a OL there that we think is worthy of that pick and there is a top DT or TE out there, we shouldnt pull the trigger? I've said this before but I hope we dont go into this draft with OL goggles on and pass up on a better talent just because every analyst and fan out there are screaming take a guard. I'm completely find with them waiting until round 2 this year. There are going to be some good players there. And that's where a lot of the guards are going to be sitting. Most of the first round OL are tackles that "could" switch to guard. The "true" guards are going to be in the 2nd and 3rd round.

The point I was trying to make is the fact that many (maybe not you) continue to view the oline as a group that you can put lessor talent in it and be ok. With everything being equal, 1st rounders are the guys a team envisions to be all pros with the right training. It doesn't always work but that's true of a lot of positions.

Put it this way. Lets say there are 10 DL with talent in this draft. Its waiting until the 2nd round makes sense. However, something you have said often is that there is a dearth of talent coming out of college at the OL position. Why would you then wait until the 2nd round after the talented guys are picked over. It doesn't make sense at a position of need.

Lastly, No defense can be void of holes. You skill players are suppose to make up for that in each grouping. For example, you may have a weak 3 tech but the 0 tech's constant double teams makes his job easier and helps him succeed. Your LCB might be a bit of a liability on deep passes but you pair him with a talented Free that erases those mistake. We have none of that on the OL. It would be sweet to have a Pro Bowler or two able to help out other guys on the line. A guard that can consistently block his guy and hand it off to our lessor skilled tackles. That's why I am an advocate for a 1st rounder "if" the talent is there. Im not saying blindly take a 1st round OL. That should be evident. It just doesn't make sense to wait and get a lessor guy that may have liability issues compared to a guy that can cover someone elses mistakes.

[YikesVikes]

With that said, I wouldn't be mad with a trade back to Get another 3rd and a Simmons (only if we address the OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds) and find a way to get Hakeem Butler.

[YikesVikes]

Would you not be ok with an OL of:

That's my problem with your entire stance. You are fine with an OK OL. Why don't we apply that logic elsewhere on the team. You don't want an OK defensive backfield, you want an exceptional one. You won't settle for an OK Defensive Line, you want an exceptional one. Why then is an OK line, what we strive for. That's the issue. We have one par guy on the DL and everyone is crying for us to take a high 3 tech. We need to fully build up this Ol past functioning to be a strength. Having an OK line will continue to get us killed vs. the Bears. WHy not match strength with their strength, nullifying it and giving us an advantage. We have most of our guys locked up already. Now is the time to build a truly exceptional OL while giving other positions talented guys that might need to be worked up a bit. Our 4th corner can be a 5th rounder; our starting guard shouldn't be. 2nd rounders tend to be guys that are OK. Why not find a guy that is Fantastic. A tackle like Ford or Taylor that Mack can't beat with speed or strength and has to work all game long. Forcing a defense to be limited in where they attack us. Or a center in the 3rd that Hicks can't bully. Forcing the defense to expose themselves to big plays to get to our QB. As of right now and with an "alright" OL, defenses can say, you 4 (or worst last season, 3) get to the QB and the 7 other guys will cover. Force them to bring 5 or 6 and let our guys eat with tosses or quick slants. We have all the pieces we need elsewhere for 2-3 more years. We need to take one draft (the draft with the most OL talent in decades) and cement our legacy. We won't and I fear this is the first season I won't worry about watching that much. It's pointless to see this team get beatdown by lessor teams because they don't understand football is won in the trenches. 2009 took us far because we got Jared and Hutch to build up our trenches. 2017 we did the same. 2018 taught us that no matter how talented a team is, if you ignore the Oline, nothing happens.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Willie Beavers and Clemmings were draft picks first of all. Second, how many “tier 1” offensive lineman have hit free agency over the last few years? No less even if one did hit the market this year we didn’t have the cap room to sign one unless we let Barr walk. He’s starting to draft more offensive lineman early vs signing them. Yeah moving Remmers to Guard was dumb. Reiff is on his last shot to prove himself. My point is, paying big money for free agent offensive lineman rarely work out. The raiders did it two years ago and had “one of the best OLs in football” and where did it get them? And then they had one of the worst OL in football last year. So woohoo, they had a great line for two years and it got them nowhere. Just like signing Reiff and Remmers to big money got us nowhere. Just like the panthers paying out the as* for Kalil. Just like the packers paying out the as* for Turner. Or the bengals paying out the as* for Hart. So I have no clue what you guys expect in free agency. Worry about the draft. That’s where you’re going to find lineman for the future. Not in free agency. Guys want to complain about Kline and other depth guys we signed this year. Do you want to drop money on more guys like Reiff and Remmers? I sure hope not. So build through the draft. The draft is not here yet. Let’s assess the OL when the draft is done. Sitting here barking about signing guys like Dozier proves nothing. He’s a depth signing. He’s not a starter. Hence why he’s getting vet minimum. We need guard depth. We can’t just draft 7 guards in the draft. As for Kline, like I said, he showed well 3 consecutive years in Tennessee. Then had one bad year. That doesn’t mean he’s trash. He’s an average offensive lineman that’s been solid pass blocker for the most part. We need two guards. If we draft two guards with our first two picks, we then pass on other positions of need. I said before free agency started that our best bet would be to sign one guard and draft the other. Trying to land both starters in either FA or the draft is not a good approach. Would you not be ok with an OL of:

LT: Reiff or O’Neill
LG: Lindstrom or Elflein
C: Elflein or Bradbury/McCoy
RG: Kline
RT: O’Neill or Reiff

???

That line is already MILES better than last years. And that’s with us only selecting 1 OL before like the 3rd round. Again, let’s see what happens on draft day. Some of you act like our starting OL is going to be reiff, dozier, Elflein, Kline and O’Neill. I can 100% guarantee that won’t be the starting OL going into next year. Guys are already freaking out and the draft hasn’t even hit yet. My goodness

You didn't even read what I wrote...All you do is go Blah Blah Blah.
I don't think with who we have now puts us miles ahead of last years line. I think there is still to many question marks. Is Elflien going to rebound, is O' Neil going to slump? Stay tune...

Sorry missed the "drafted" part. But either way, I guess I go "blah, blah, blah" . But what's funny is you clearly didnt read what I wrote either. Because I said, THAT OL is miles better. Hence, the line I posted above that included possible draft picks in it. Of course who we have now doesnt make our OL miles better. Never did I say that or anyone else. The offseason isnt over is my point. So why complain now when we can really improve this line come draft day? Why is O'Neill slumping a question mark? It's simply an assumption. Essentially anything can happen. The cowboys went into 2018 with arguably the best OL in football and they got banged up with injuries and had a fairly poor year. Especially when it came to pass blocking.

[Pondering Her Percy]

If we dont draft and OL in the first round but draft one in the second, why is that wrong? We drafted O'Neill last year in the 2nd and he was arguably the best OT in the draft (at least from a pass blocking perspective). Just because you pick a first round OL doesnt mean it was the right choice. They could easily but like a Levi Brown or Robert Gallery or they could be all pro's. It's about assessing their talent the correct way. If we're up and there isnt a OL there that we think is worthy of that pick and there is a top DT or TE out there, we shouldnt pull the trigger? I've said this before but I hope we dont go into this draft with OL goggles on and pass up on a better talent just because every analyst and fan out there are screaming take a guard. I'm completely find with them waiting until round 2 this year. There are going to be some good players there. And that's where a lot of the guards are going to be sitting. Most of the first round OL are tackles that "could" switch to guard. The "true" guards are going to be in the 2nd and 3rd round.

The point I was trying to make is the fact that many (maybe not you) continue to view the oline as a group that you can put lessor talent in it and be ok. With everything being equal, 1st rounders are the guys a team envisions to be all pros with the right training. It doesn't always work but that's true of a lot of positions.

Put it this way. Lets say there are 10 DL with talent in this draft. Its waiting until the 2nd round makes sense. However, something you have said often is that there is a dearth of talent coming out of college at the OL position. Why would you then wait until the 2nd round after the talented guys are picked over. It doesn't make sense at a position of need.

Lastly, No defense can be void of holes. You skill players are suppose to make up for that in each grouping. For example, you may have a weak 3 tech but the 0 tech's constant double teams makes his job easier and helps him succeed. Your LCB might be a bit of a liability on deep passes but you pair him with a talented Free that erases those mistake. We have none of that on the OL. It would be sweet to have a Pro Bowler or two able to help out other guys on the line. A guard that can consistently block his guy and hand it off to our lessor skilled tackles. That's why I am an advocate for a 1st rounder "if" the talent is there. Im not saying blindly take a 1st round OL. That should be evident. It just doesn't make sense to wait and get a lessor guy that may have liability issues compared to a guy that can cover someone elses mistakes.

I havent said there is a lack of OL coming out. I have said it's deeper than some think. Not at the tackle position (most will be 1st-2nd rounders) but the guard position there will be solid picks going up to the 5th round. Tackles are top heavy this year and guards are 2nd-3rd round heavy. If there is a tackle that is talented but we dont necessarily "need" one, yeah take him. My point was that I just dont want us to have OL goggles on and think we have to go there if most of the talent is picked over. Bottom line is, pick BPA. I completely get what you're saying now that you explained it in detail. I just dont want this FO to be narrow minded with our first round pick.

[StumpHunter]

You didn't even read what I wrote...All you do is go Blah Blah Blah.
I don't think with who we have now puts us miles ahead of last years line. I think there is still to many question marks. Is Elflien going to rebound, is O' Neil going to slump? Stay tune...

Sorry missed the "drafted" part. But either way, I guess I go "blah, blah, blah" . But what's funny is you clearly didnt read what I wrote either. Because I said, THAT OL is miles better. Hence, the line I posted above that included possible draft picks in it. Of course who we have now doesnt make our OL miles better. Never did I say that or anyone else. The offseason isnt over is my point. So why complain now when we can really improve this line come draft day? Why is O'Neill slumping a question mark? It's simply an assumption. Essentially anything can happen. The cowboys went into 2018 with arguably the best OL in football and they got banged up with injuries and had a fairly poor year. Especially when it came to pass blocking.

That Oline has the potential to be miles better.

It requires at least one rookie to come out the gate playing well and Kline to be really good in nearly the same system he sucked in last season.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Would you not be ok with an OL of:

That's my problem with your entire stance. You are fine with an OK OL. Why don't we apply that logic elsewhere on the team. You don't want an OK defensive backfield, you want an exceptional one. You won't settle for an OK Defensive Line, you want an exceptional one. Why then is an OK line, what we strive for. That's the issue. We have one par guy on the DL and everyone is crying for us to take a high 3 tech. We need to fully build up this Ol past functioning to be a strength. Having an OK line will continue to get us killed vs. the Bears. WHy not match strength with their strength, nullifying it and giving us an advantage. We have most of our guys locked up already. Now is the time to build a truly exceptional OL while giving other positions talented guys that might need to be worked up a bit. Our 4th corner can be a 5th rounder; our starting guard shouldn't be. 2nd rounders tend to be guys that are OK. Why not find a guy that is Fantastic. A tackle like Ford or Taylor that Mack can't beat with speed or strength and has to work all game long. Forcing a defense to be limited in where they attack us. Or a center in the 3rd that Hicks can't bully. Forcing the defense to expose themselves to big plays to get to our QB. As of right now and with an "alright" OL, defenses can say, you 4 (or worst last season, 3) get to the QB and the 7 other guys will cover. Force them to bring 5 or 6 and let our guys eat with tosses or quick slants. We have all the pieces we need elsewhere for 2-3 more years. We need to take one draft (the draft with the most OL talent in decades) and cement our legacy. We won't and I fear this is the first season I won't worry about watching that much. It's pointless to see this team get beatdown by lessor teams because they don't understand football is won in the trenches. 2009 took us far because we got Jared and Hutch to build up our trenches. 2017 we did the same. 2018 taught us that no matter how talented a team is, if you ignore the Oline, nothing happens.

Never did I say "ignore" it. And did you see the OL I listed below that post? I included Bradbury/Lindstrom/McCoy saying we draft one of them AT LEAST. So if we end up drafting one of them, how is that ignoring the OL? Is it just me or did both you and halfgiz miss the part where I included those guys in that depth chart? And that was me not even counting us drafting anyone from like the 3rd round on. I was simply saying, that's what our starting OL could look like next year:

LT: Reiff or O’Neill
LG: Lindstrom or Elflein
C: Elflein or Bradbury/McCoy
RG: Kline
RT: O’Neill or Reiff

I want good offensive lineman just as much as anyone but I can tell you right now, we arent completely rebuilding this OL into something great this offseason. We can drastically improve it but we are probably going to have to settle for an average to a little above average OL this year unless we dedicate our first 2-3 picks to OL and pass on other needs. That's not Rick "ignoring" the OL like everyone likes to say. If he doesnt draft an OL in the first few picks, yeah 100% that's just dumb. But we cant dedicate every pick and penny we have to the OL. This team has other needs too. In no way, shape or form am I content with an "okay OL". Is that not an average to above average starting OL that I listed above? And already a solid improvement from last year? I would 100% say yes. Maybe Spielman goes 1st round and 3rd round OL. Maybe he goes 2nd and 3rd. Maybe he goes 1st and 4th, I have no idea. But I'm just talking starters here. Not depth. I like that starting OL above to be honest. It has room to improve the following year but it's a solid OL and should be much better than last year.