Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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PurpleKoolaid
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: If either or both of these players pan out, are you going to recant and say you were wrong?

I mean, for crying out loud ... Jerick McKinnon has played all of 10 games. Neither he nor anyone else thought he'd get more than 50 carries playing behind AP, yet he leads all rookies in rushing yards -- and you're already calling him a bust.

Patterson has been disappointing, but that doesn't mean he'll stay that way. Reports I read point to his lack of maturity more than his ability. Immature people tend to mature at some point. Not saying he'll ever live up to the hype, but it seems pretty dismissive to apply the bust label to a player of Patterson's talent 2/3 of the way through his second season.
I will have no problem recanting if Im wrong. It doesn't happen very often, the being wrong part :D Will you? Is it really even worth making that comment if they both are busts? Ive been hoping I was wrong about things that's have happened since the Wilf's came to MN. But I haven't been.

I wish we had taken a WR who knew the position better then CP does. Hunter would have been the better of the 2, and could have been gotten much later.

Same with McKinnon. You don't take that pick in the 3rd round unless you know he can handle the role. The jury is still out on him, I agree. But we are going to have to pick another RB this year, like a 1st or 2nd round one. We have picked a few athletic 'freaks' and its time to pick value at the position. Life without AD bailing us out for years, is going to be a hard task.
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Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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Thanks for posting the Scoggins article, Jim. I think I'm probably the poster you were thinking of who has talked about his hip and ankle injuries (maybe not, but I've mentioned it 3 times and I haven't noticed a response). I'm glad other people at least see the same thing I see...he's not running the same.

PK, I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't cite the injury as an excuse, I mention it for context. In truth, I think it says a lot about his "immaturity". This is a guy who has deflected praise to his teammates in everything I've seen, and he's potentially playing with an injury that negates his one advantage on the field: his uncanny athleticism. He doesn't sound immature to me.

He definitely needs to work on his craft and become better at the fundamental parts of being a receiver. I see nothing wrong with discussing that he's playing through a difficult situation, though, especially since he isn't making excuses.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: I will have no problem recanting if Im wrong. It doesn't happen very often, the being wrong part :D Will you? Is it really even worth making that comment if they both are busts? Ive been hoping I was wrong about things that's have happened since the Wilf's came to MN. But I haven't been.

I wish we had taken a WR who knew the position better then CP does. Hunter would have been the better of the 2, and could have been gotten much later.

Same with McKinnon. You don't take that pick in the 3rd round unless you know he can handle the role. The jury is still out on him, I agree. But we are going to have to pick another RB this year, like a 1st or 2nd round one. We have picked a few athletic 'freaks' and its time to pick value at the position. Life without AD bailing us out for years, is going to be a hard task.
Wow. Never wrong. Arrogant much?

I'm done with this conversation. It's impossible to compete with perfection.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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I wouldn't know.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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DKSweets wrote:Thanks for posting the Scoggins article, Jim. I think I'm probably the poster you were thinking of who has talked about his hip and ankle injuries (maybe not, but I've mentioned it 3 times and I haven't noticed a response). I'm glad other people at least see the same thing I see...he's not running the same.
Yes, that was you. I'm sorry I couldn't remember who had posted that thought.
PK, I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't cite the injury as an excuse, I mention it for context. In truth, I think it says a lot about his "immaturity". This is a guy who has deflected praise to his teammates in everything I've seen, and he's potentially playing with an injury that negates his one advantage on the field: his uncanny athleticism. He doesn't sound immature to me.

He definitely needs to work on his craft and become better at the fundamental parts of being a receiver. I see nothing wrong with discussing that he's playing through a difficult situation, though, especially since he isn't making excuses.
I don't either. Good post!
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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PurpleKoolaid wrote:It doesn't happen very often, the being wrong part
.....

Remember, this message board never forgets..
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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frosted wrote: .....

Remember, this message board never forgets..
LOL, I put up a smiley face. It wasn't meant to be taken literally, in Kapps original post.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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Sorry, I meant to reply to your post yesterday, Craig, and I got caught up in the Adrian Peterson discussion (again).
losperros wrote:I understand the necessity/design parts and I'm not disagreeing with that. However, aside from 2009, I think Chili put too much emphasis on running the ball and not rebuilding the passing game once Culpepper was out of the game. As for Favre, the Vikings were lucky he was available for the year. No way that was part of Chili's infamous 5-year plan.

I'm not trying to dump on Childress but that gives some perspective about the how long the Vikings have had an anemic passing game. Meanwhile, AD was carrying the offense on his back and the OL has usually been comprised of huge guys that aren't always the best athletes. Admittedly, I thought Kalil was a step in the right direction and now he's having issues. Can't win for losing, I guess.

Despite all the FA signings and draft picks (which I think were pretty darn good), the Vikings again have a dysfunctional offense and the passing game simply doesn't work. There is something wrong. Seems to me that once Adrian Peterson is removed from the equation, the Vikings offense becomes a rudderless boat. It has no signature, no real identity, and it has too much talent at the skill positions to be that way. The team was dependent on AD making super-human plays and despite what talent was/is available, something remains wrong.
My own theory is that it's a combination of things but you're right, without Peterson, the offense lacks identity. I think they're trying to find it and they aren't sure where to look. To me, this gets back to the problem they've had almost every year since 2005: they can never get the right mix of experience at talent on the field at once. They're always limited by inexperience, injury, off-field problems, transition to a new system... it's always something and it's usually a combination of things. This year, all of those dynamics are at work and I believe that's a big part of the problem.
Since I'm not in on the team meetings, I can't say this for certain but from what I've seen this year I would say that some philosophical changes need to be made with the team, including a little less "power running" mantra now that AD is gone. I'm not saying this team is the Broncos or Pats, but there is some talent there at the skill positions and, as I've said before, there are coaches that are paid to fix problems. And even you agreed that a guy like Patterson simply isn't being used for his strengths.
I don't think they're doing all that much power running at this point and honestly,I think they might need to run the ball more. It seems to be what they do best this year. I said some time ago that I think that's one of the best ways to help a struggling o-line get on track and I still believe that's true.

I'd like to see them get Patterson more involved, even if it requires using the approach Musgrave used with Harvin and manufacturing touches near the line of scrimmage. Above all, they need to find a combination of plays they can execute consistently well, routes that Bridgewater is comfortable throwing, the receivers can run effectively and that develop quickly enough for the struggling line to sustain protection and allow completions. Norv may need to simplify the playbook for a while so these guys can master something in the passing game rather than struggling with just about everything.
Something is wrong and perhaps some thinking needs to change in the Vikings brain trust. As a fan, it frustrates me to see another year with a crippled passing game.
It frustrates me too. This passing game reminds me way too much if the one we saw in 2006 and that's scary. I get the feeling Turner may be trying too hard to implement his system work and isn't adapting enough to what his personnel can do effectively. Maybe I'm wrong about that but that's my suspicion.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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Jim the ineptitude might also be a result of either bad QB play or bad WR play. The Coach could be forcing the scheme or the players could be so lousy at executing the scheme that they this is the limit of what they can achieve.

I do not know what the right answer is. Something is up though, the offense is pathetic in pretty much all areas. The QB play has been bad, albeit TB gets something of a pass in that he is a rookie. However, the OL, the WR, and the RB have all had their issues as well. Playcalling has been problematic also.

Maybe it is a case where the coaches and players are figuring each other out and it will be better in 2015? I'd like to think that way, but at this point there isn't any reason to do so.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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As Jim alluded to, there's no identity. You can call plays for Mckinnon, Patterson or for plays that Norv thinks Teddy can execute, but if they don't get the job done then where exactly does he turn? His creativity might lack, but that can't be the sole blame, because for an NFL offense, I sure as heck don't see a lot of these guys stepping up and making plays.

It also doesn't help that the defense can't get off the field on third down. TOP was heavily skewed towards Chicago and it was a result of 3 and outs on offense and sustained drives by Chicago when Minnesota was on defense. The Vikings could never find a rhythym, which I also think is important.

Specifically against Chicago, it wasn't the X's and O's that bothered me though...It was the effort. It looked they were all just going through the motions (coaches included) and just wanted to get back home. Nobody makes plays if they aren't trying.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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PacificNorseWest wrote:As Jim alluded to, there's no identity. You can call plays for Mckinnon, Patterson or for plays that Norv thinks Teddy can execute, but if they don't get the job done then where exactly does he turn? His creativity might lack, but that can't be the sole blame, because for an NFL offense, I sure as heck don't see a lot of these guys stepping up and making plays.

It also doesn't help that the defense can't get off the field on third down. TOP was heavily skewed towards Chicago and it was a result of 3 and outs on offense and sustained drives by Chicago when Minnesota was on defense. The Vikings could never find a rhythym, which I also think is important.

Specifically against Chicago, it wasn't the X's and O's that bothered me though...It was the effort. It looked they were all just going through the motions (coaches included) and just wanted to get back home. Nobody makes plays if they aren't trying.
I agree. And we saw this a lot with Fraizer led teams. But there has to be balance. We have to have talent, and then coaches that can get that talent to shine when its available. If it isn't, bench some of them, and see if anyone else has the drive to play. And maybe find talent where we don't expect it.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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mansquatch wrote:Jim the ineptitude might also be a result of either bad QB play or bad WR play. The Coach could be forcing the scheme or the players could be so lousy at executing the scheme that they this is the limit of what they can achieve.
The truth may lie in-between. I'm attributing the ineffective play of Bridgewater and Patterson to inexperience but whatever the reason, the bottom line is they haven't been very effective in most games.
I do not know what the right answer is. Something is up though, the offense is pathetic in pretty much all areas. The QB play has been bad, albeit TB gets something of a pass in that he is a rookie. However, the OL, the WR, and the RB have all had their issues as well. Playcalling has been problematic also.

Maybe it is a case where the coaches and players are figuring each other out and it will be better in 2015? I'd like to think that way, but at this point there isn't any reason to do so.
I think part of the problem is that there's nobody who demands special attention, nobody an opposing defense has to game plan to stop. Peterson gave them that and without him, it's too easy for defenses to match up with them.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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I think part of the problem is that there's nobody who demands special attention, nobody an opposing defense has to game plan to stop. Peterson gave them that and without him, it's too easy for defenses to match up with them.
Nah. It's Patterson. It was just easier to stop than we were hoping for and than everyone thought. :lol:
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

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Competitive playmaking is definitely a key missing ingredient. We've had few "WOW" plays this year. We do not have a WR who can consistently make a play or beat coverage. Our RB are not going to blow anyone away, and Bridgewater is still in the unknown category. In that respect it shouldn't be so surprising that we are so vanilla.

Still very early to talk draft, but I suspect this year will be an interesting one in terms of what positions they try to improve.
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Re: Zimmer, Vikings will remain patient with Patterson

Post by chicagopurple »

It so early to judge such a young reciever. Its also way too early to judge the OC.....he started the year by losing the keystone of their plan (AP), he has had to train up 2 rookie RBs during the season, all while also training a rookie QB! I would hope that Wilf gives Zim and Turner a full of season with a stable team roster to come up with a good scheme and a full training camp to install it. What DOES need immediate attention it the OL. The OLhas had plenty of time to prove itself and all it has proven is that it sucks, consistently sucks. Oh, and 2 tall guys in the secondary would be nice.
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