Vikings Message Board.Com

Reignman wrote:1 more 80yd TD run from Peterson? That seems to be the difference so far. He's getting his usual 20 3 yard carries a game, but he's lacking the big one. Except week 1 where he got the big one but then couldn't get the 20 3 yard carries. But we all feared this. Could Ponder step up if AD isn't getting it done? We're finding out.

Sure, or the pass that was over thrown to Webb in the endzone is another good candidate. I mean it takes what, like 8-12 inches and he probably catches that ball and we probably win if Ponder can even make ONE half way decent throw there. Of course once again the defense -could- have come up with a stop and it's game over. They're just not doing it so far so we're 0-3 heh.

If I had to describe it another way I'd say this year we're being bad and unlucky while last year we were lucky good if that makes sense!

acousticrock wrote: That pass is really a moot point.
I get that it shows that Ponder is inaccurate sometimes...
but 2 plays later he ran the ball for a TD.
That's the same 7 points that they would have had if he completed the pass to Webb.

You can, however, point to the 3rd and 4 pass to Jennings that sailed way out of bounds.

Thanks, I think I got the drives mixed up then!

mondry wrote:Sure, or the pass that was over thrown to Webb in the endzone is another good candidate. I mean it takes what, like 8-12 inches and he probably catches that ball...

If he had just extended like a more experienced, qualified NFL wide receiver I think Webb probably could have caught that ball. I have no doubt Greg Jennings could have hauled that pass in. The pass wasn't perfect but I was far more frustrated that Webb was in the game and the target of that throw than that Ponder overthrew him a little. I see receivers catch imperfect passes from QBs every week in the NFL. Bennett made a great catch on one last night in the Bears game. Webb doesn't belong on the field at WR in that situation. They have 4 better WRs on the roster and they're all healthy.

Boon wrote: Yeah it is all about ponder. The time of posession had been HORRENDOUS, and that has probably alot more to do with all the 3 and outs. The three straight weeks with a turnover right before halftime. The errant throws on ROUTINE PLAYS. If he hits jennings with that out route, that any high school quarterback can make, the game is pretty much iced. You can't sit here and tell me that with all the turnovers this team has been forcing, that the defense is to blame for these losses. Most teams capitalize on turnovers, not a ponder led offense.

LOL! They scored 10 points off turnovers yesterday and the only time they didn't it was when Loadholt completely blew his assignment and it led to a fumble at the end of the first half.

The offense scored both times the defense gave them the ball off turnovers in Chicago too.They scored at least 7 points off turnovers in Detroit too.

And we're probably near the cellar in total plays attempted per game. But I bet that's the defenses fault too.

Not even close. the Vikings are 18th in total plays attempted. Oakland is last.

Can we at least deal in reality?

Reignman wrote:Has a home opening crowd ever boo'd so vigorously? That's how bad it's been. It's like in unison the crowd was saying, where's the progress we were promised?

I haven't seen it happen, but we had a late opener game 3, but even game 3 is shocking to have the base so pissed off. Maybe Speilman will do something about the QB position, knowing the fans are now booing his guy off the field.

My question would be: Is this regime even the right people to develop a QB?

The fact you are willing to place more blame on a wide receiver who touched the (overthrown) ball for the first time in a regular season game rather than the QB who has started 30 games and sucked in about 26 of them pretty much ices any pretense of objectivity on your part.

Mothman wrote: If he had just extended like a more experienced, qualified NFL wide receiver I think Webb probably could have caught that ball. I have no doubt Greg Jennings could have hauled that pass in. The pass wasn't perfect but I was far more frustrated that Webb was in the game and the target of that throw than that Ponder overthrew him a little. I see receivers catch imperfect passes from QBs every week in the NFL. Bennett made a great catch on one last night in the Bears game. Webb doesn't belong on the field at WR in that situation. They have 4 better WRs on the roster and they're all healthy.

Raptorman wrote:Right. And how many threads are there about the defense?

I would say a few things -

1) I for one am so USED to our porous pass defense that honestly I EXPECTED Hoyer to light us up yesterday. I guess I am just numb to an inopportune defense over the past several years?
2) Human nature and the nature of the NFL makes the QB position an absolute lightning rod.
3) It is far easier for the average fan to see Ponder blow another pass play than it is to notice Chris Cook failing to rotate his coverage two plays in a row and basically losing a game for us.
4) I have tried throwing stones at some of our icons over the past two years, notably proposing we trade Jared Allen two years ago, and get shouted down in a chorus of "he's fantastic, he's the best, we need a premiere DE, love his energy, love his rope-tying, love him off the field, we can't live without his sacks", etc. There's really none of those things for folks to point to for Ponder.
5) In today's NFL you can win with a LOT of shortcomings, even a semi-crappy D, but there is absolutely NO WAY in today's NFL to win consistently with shortcomings at the QB position. It simply cannot be done.

Webbfann wrote:The fact you are willing to place more blame on a wide receiver who touched the (overthrown) ball for the first time in a regular season game rather than the QB who has started 30 games and sucked in about 26 of them pretty much ices any pretense of objectivity on your part.

I think it's safe to say your handle does likewise.

As a self-professed Joe Webb fan, how do you not know that wasn't the time Webb has touched a pass in an NFL regular season game as a wide receiver? He caught a 9 yard pass in 2011!

Seriously, if you re-read my post, you'll see that I was actually blaming the coaches for having Webb in the game in that situation and making him the target of the pass. I acknowledge that it wasn't a good throw by Ponder. I don't think he or Webb did their jobs as well as they could have on that play.

But the only person you are saying should not have been part of that play is Webb. Webb, a rookie receiver, who got wide open in the end zone, shouldn't even have been on the field, while Ponder, who has missed open receivers countless times and missed once again, belonged there.

Makes no sense.

Mothman wrote:

Mothman wrote: Imagine how the offense must feel knowing the defense can't hold a lead at the end of a game.

The idea that Ponder is to blame for this team's defensive woes is ridiculous.

I agree Ponder is not to blame for the lack of defense but also just wondering how many NFL teams win when there offense is turning the ball over 3 plus times a game? I imagine if there is such a stat it is quite low.

Mothman wrote: If he had just extended like a more experienced, qualified NFL wide receiver I think Webb probably could have caught that ball. I have no doubt Greg Jennings could have hauled that pass in. The pass wasn't perfect but I was far more frustrated that Webb was in the game and the target of that throw than that Ponder overthrew him a little. I see receivers catch imperfect passes from QBs every week in the NFL. Bennett made a great catch on one last night in the Bears game. Webb doesn't belong on the field at WR in that situation. They have 4 better WRs on the roster and they're all healthy.

Are you suggesting he alligator armed the catch? It didn't look that way to me, I thought he had his arms fully extended. Why wouldn't Webb belong on the field in that situation anyway, he has the body size, speed, and jumping ability that you want in the redzone. I thought he played his role well, he ran a good route, handily beating the defender, but the ball was overthrown.

Ponder is our worst nightmare...ultimately he will always be a failure but he does JUST enough to give the GM/Coach an excuse to have a chronic hope he will "turn around" .....In my 40 yrs as a Vikes fan, this is going to be the hardest time (well next to Les Steckel). We are watching the utter waste of Adrian Peterson's career/gifts....

Webbfann wrote:But the only person you are saying should not have been part of that play is Webb. Webb, a rookie receiver, who got wide open in the end zone, shouldn't even have been on the field, while Ponder, who has missed open receivers countless times and missed once again, belonged there.

Makes no sense.

I'm not convinced they have a better alternative at QB. I know they have better alternatives at WR.

S197 wrote:Are you suggesting he alligator armed the catch?

No, I'm saying he extended his arms but he didn't extend his body. If I recall correctly, they even commented on it during the broadcast. It seemed to me that he played it like a guy learning the position, not a player who knows and is comfortable with the position.

Why wouldn't Webb belong on the field in that situation anyway, he has the body size, speed, and jumping ability that you want in the redzone.

He shouldn't be out there because they have better options. He still looks awkward to me, uncomfortable with the position.

Mothman wrote: No, I'm saying he extended his arms but he didn't extend his body. If I recall correctly, they even commented on it during the broadcast. It seemed to me that he played it like a guy learning the position, not a player who knows and is comfortable with the position.
He shouldn't be out there because they have better options. He still looks awkward to me, uncomfortable with the position.

He still needs work but I thought on that particular play, he did the best job he could possibly do in terms of getting himself open. A guy who is 6'4, 4.4 speed, with whatever his incredible vertical is, will have a pretty big catch radius so when the ball goes off his fingertips I don't know if another receiver on this squad would have fared any better. He could have dived for the ball but then it's an incredible catch more than anything. I don't know, it's all speculation at this point, I just think it sounds a tad bit harsh to say a guy doesn't belong on the field when he got himself that open and made at worse, a fairly good effort to catch the football.

Maybe Jennings gets jammed at the line and doesn't even get open on the same play, there's a million different "what if" scenarios. Bottom line though is it was more a poorly thrown ball than poor effort on the part of the receiver from my vantage point. Maybe when the coaches tape comes out there will be something that shows otherwise, I'm just going off real time speed and the few replays they showed.