Patterson to be more involved vs. Bears

[Reignman]

hahah Then it will be "Patterson needs to be more involved vs Broncos in superbowl" !

I can see it now, "Vikings, first 10th seed to advance to a superbowl" ... oh wait

[Eli]

October 30, 2017

Cordarrelle Patterson, a Vikings' first round draft pick in 2013 and virtually forgotten in the past four years, made two key plays in the Vikings 17-10 victory over the Jacksonville Jaguars. Patterson had a career high four catches for 71 yards and a TD in the Vikings' victory over the heavily favored Jaguars.

[Mothman]

hahah Then it will be "Patterson needs to be more involved vs Broncos in superbowl" !

Frazier is calling the lack of playing time for Patterson "a major oversight". It sounds like this is the same issue they had with Musgrave and Harvin in 2011. Musgrave sometimes appears to get too wrapped up in using certain personnel packages instead of focusing on getting the ball to his best weapons. It's mind-boggling that Joe Webb has seen more snaps on offense than Patterson at this point.

Mark Craig has an article about it today but it's not going to make people happy. Fortunately, I don't think Frazier is happy about it either so maybe Patterson really will see significantly more playing time against Cleveland.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 68131.html

[Webbfann]

It's mind-boggling that Joe Webb has seen more snaps on offense than Patterson at this point.

Ehhh....what's truly mind boggling is that Webb hasn't seen more playing time in his years with the Vikes. In light of that, it's entirely consistent that CP not see more playing time either. And if/when he does, it will be in safe, predictable, defensible passes behind the line of scrimmage with 8 guys to beat.

[BGM]

Frazier is calling the lack of playing time for Patterson "a major oversight". It sounds like this is the same issue they had with Musgrave and Harvin in 2011. Musgrave sometimes appears to get too wrapped up in using certain personnel packages instead of focusing on getting the ball to his best weapons. It's mind-boggling that Joe Webb has seen more snaps on offense than Patterson at this point.

Mark Craig has an article about it today but it's not going to make people happy. Fortunately, I don't think Frazier is happy about it either so maybe Patterson really will see significantly more playing time against Cleveland.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 68131.html

For me, this is the biggest knock on Musgrave - it takes too long to get playmakers involved in the offense. Maybe he has the MO of bringing guys along slowly, but when you have a guy with Patterson's skills, you do what you can to get him on the field. Yes, Simpson is having a good season so far, and that's great! But, when you have targets that not only make big plays, but also take pressure off Ponder, you HAVE to get the best players on the field. Of course, it also makes me insane to not see AD in on 3rd downs or on short yardage or red zone formations.

[The Breeze]

From what I see, going back to Childress, Harvin's' complaints are becoming a bit more valid in some sense. Not necessarily the tone or tenor of them but in their spirit.

[Funkytown]

This made me laugh. Good stuff.

[Webbfann]

From what I see, going back to Childress, Harvin's' complaints are becoming a bit more valid in some sense. Not necessarily the tone or tenor of them but in their spirit.

What exactly were Harvin's complaints? I've seen guesses but never the actual complaints.

[The Breeze]

What exactly were Harvin's complaints? I've seen guesses but never the actual complaints.

I'm not suggesting to know what his actual issues were....but i could easily see his discontent with how conservative and confined this offense is due to a few different factors. Namely the dynamic between Ponder/Musgrave and it's impact on Ponder's development or lack of it..... The Musgrave/Fraizer dynamic and it's impact on the overall philosophy of the offense from A to Z. It's not much different than when Childress was here IMO. The element of complete control hasn't changed much, instead they've just dumped players who challenge it.

In the case of Ponder: what Mondry has been suggesting about getting him more involved with the actual flow of the game makes a lot of sense to me. Just sticking him back there while trying to run the wole offense through the RB position is nuts IMO. They need to trust the QB and encourage him to change plays and have more of a coach on the field mentality. Whether the lack of that is on Musgrave or Ponder or both is anybody's guess, I imagine. But until we see Ponder actually commanding the offense instead of being a remote controlled robot, the whole issue of what we have in him will continue to be a gray area. Let him sink or swim.

Anyway, my Harvin comment is based on my belief that he was frustrated with restraints upon this offense....not just his own role.

[mondry]

For me, this is the biggest knock on Musgrave - it takes too long to get playmakers involved in the offense. Maybe he has the MO of bringing guys along slowly, but when you have a guy with Patterson's skills, you do what you can to get him on the field. Yes, Simpson is having a good season so far, and that's great! But, when you have targets that not only make big plays, but also take pressure off Ponder, you HAVE to get the best players on the field. Of course, it also makes me insane to not see AD in on 3rd downs or on short yardage or red zone formations.

Yeah, I can agree with that... Like I said, I just don't see how Carlson (the 2nd TE in a 2 TE set) is getting more play than Patterson, or even Wright for that matter. From the other thread we know Ponder is scared to throw the seam route over the middle to a TE so might as well get Patterson on the field, he can throw some shorter crossing routes, curls, and slants to him, probably suit his ability more.

I admire Frazier for turning the offense over to someone else and having faith in them since he's clearly more experienced with the defensive side of the ball. I'm also glad he's willing to say "hey I'm not the expert on offense here but clearly somethings wrong if Patterson sees 5 snaps a game."

[Mothman]

Yeah, I can agree with that... Like I said, I just don't see how Carlson (the 2nd TE in a 2 TE set) is getting more play than Patterson, or even Wright for that matter. From the other thread we know Ponder is scared to throw the seam route over the middle to a TE...

I really don't think we can draw that conclusion from one play. All we know is he didn't make the throw on that play. He's thrown more than a few passes over the middle to Rudolph in the last two years so he's not afraid to throw a pass to a TE over the middle.

Maybe it's just me but I think it's a mistake to draw sweeping conclusions from one example.

As for Musgrave, I agree with BGM's take on him. I have the same issues with his approach.

[Webbfann]

My perception-admittedly biased by my own lack of confidence in Ponder-is that Ponder's late, high, telegraphed, predictable throws to Harvin-were putting him at risk of getting his clock cleaned play after play and Harvin got sick of it. I think he finally refused to play if Ponder was still QB. He probably couldn't tell anyone that of course so he became "injured", but thats what I think. You could see it time after time the same plays that left Harvin exposed to just being clobbered over and over. Rarely a nice clean toss to Harvin when he was open and had some control over who he got by, and when. Just poor high late throws with helmets heading toward his ribs.

I'm not suggesting to know what his actual issues were....but i could easily see his discontent with how conservative and confined this offense is due to a few different factors. Namely the dynamic between Ponder/Musgrave and it's impact on Ponder's development or lack of it..... The Musgrave/Fraizer dynamic and it's impact on the overall philosophy of the offense from A to Z. It's not much different than when Childress was here IMO. The element of complete control hasn't changed much, instead they've just dumped players who challenge it.

In the case of Ponder: what Mondry has been suggesting about getting him more involved with the actual flow of the game makes a lot of sense to me. Just sticking him back there while trying to run the wole offense through the RB position is nuts IMO. They need to trust the QB and encourage him to change plays and have more of a coach on the field mentality. Whether the lack of that is on Musgrave or Ponder or both is anybody's guess, I imagine. But until we see Ponder actually commanding the offense instead of being a remote controlled robot, the whole issue of what we have in him will continue to be a gray area. Let him sink or swim.

Anyway, my Harvin comment is based on my belief that he was frustrated with restraints upon this offense....not just his own role.

[Demi]

Trust the QB. For goodness sake we heard the same crap with TJoke. Look at Bevell now. You need a QB capable of BEING trusted. A QB who EARNS that trust. But no, instead let's just give the clown the trust and let him get with the flow of the game.

The flow of the game is 7 point ints the other way if you let that twit take the reins.

Anyway, my Harvin comment is based on my belief that he was frustrated with restraints upon this offense....not just his own role.

He was frustrated because of the role he had to have based on who was behind center. And snapped when Ponder couldn't even complete simple screen passes. And STILL CAN'T! Last week an easy screen and he throws it a yard too high for Simpson who has to leave his feet to come down with it. Good luck doing anything with that.

But let's rev him up and let him go! That's the key!

[Webbfann]

I think it IS the key...the key to proving he can't help us be a winning team. Playing him safe will only prolong our misery I'm afraid. When Muskie hands him the 12th first down run in a row he needs to say F$#@ you, I'm going downfield.

[dead_poet]

@adamlevitan: Leslie Frazier throws Musgrave under the bus regarding Cordarrelle's lack of snaps: “It’s just an oversight on our part; a major oversight."