Vikings Message Board.Com

JEC334 wrote:I think that have similar abilities when it comes to throwing the ball. Because Tarkenton didn't have a arm either. Now when it comes to running that is completely different. Tarkenton would run 40 yards back , run circles in the backfield, and still manage to get off a pass before getting sacked.

Sometimes...

... at other times, he'd end up taking a 20 yard sack which I assure you was VERY frustrating to watch!

Here is the question I'm excited about:

How much better will the offense be if Ponder does turn the corner? I think a 2009-esque season is possible. TE are better than 2009. OL is way better. RB is better version of himself. WR has potential to be better, but until they prove it the nod has to go to 2009. Still, there is potential for a very nice year.

Of course the big question there is one of degree. I think if Ponder can put up a signle digit INT total along with better completion and yardage stats (note I didn't say stellar) then good things will happen to us.

Defense is another story though. The back 7 have some question marks that could be great positives or net negatives. We just do not know at this point.

mansquatch wrote:Here is the question I'm excited about:

How much better will the offense be if Ponder does turn the corner? I think a 2009-esque season is possible. TE are better than 2009. OL is way better. RB is better version of himself. WR has potential to be better, but until they prove it the nod has to go to 2009. Still, there is potential for a very nice year.

Of course the big question there is one of degree. I think if Ponder can put up a signle digit INT total along with better completion and yardage stats (note I didn't say stellar) then good things will happen to us.

I agree and it IS exciting to consider! Statistically speaking, 3500+ yards passing, 20+ TDs, 10 or fewer INTs, a small number of lost fumbles (let's say 4 or less), a 7+ yard average per completion and maintaining his current completion percentage (62.1 last season) could be good enough to win it all. Of course, that has to be accompanied by smart performance and when necessary, clutch performance but speaking purely in terms of stats, those numbers could get it done and those stats don't seem unattainable at all. They would put him in Flacco territory.

To reach those particular goals, Ponder would have to throw at least 2 more TDs, at least 2 fewer INTs and lose at least one less fumble. He'd have to throw for an additional 565 yards. None of that sounds impossible at all and if he could maintain his completion % (or at least stay at around 60%) that really could mean big things for the team if they play well.

Jim

I'm far more concerned about the defense than the offense. Probably 10x more concerned actually, one has the league MVP, the other not so much.

mondry wrote:I'm far more concerned about the defense than the offense. Probably 10x more concerned actually, one has the league MVP, the other not so much.

Jared Allen is back to full health. That'll help. If Harrison Smith takes another jump he could have the makings of a pro-bowler back there.

But I get what you're saying. MLB, NT and CB are question marks.

The big question in my mind is the back 7. I think S is very strong. Smith is set for a breakout year IMO. Sanford and Raymond are solid rolepalyers on the other side.

Greenway is Greenway. The rest of the LB are a giant question mark. The one positive IMO is what Henderson said about playing 40% of the snaps in Nickel which he already did last season. That eases the pain to some degree IMO, but not completely. In that one regard I think the LB thing might be more about not having great playmakers vs. having a total weakness on the field. In base sets this could be less true... At this point the Strongside guy is total unknown. The top guy in Fan's minds is a rookie 4th round pick. Not exactly inspriring.

CB is where it gets interesting. Winfield is a big loss, but we have to remember he wasn't a 3 down guy all of last year. Also of concern is Cook's durability. Robinson got better last year and Jefferson is a solid backup IMO. Rhodes is a rookie, but has shown the physical skills. All in all I think this group is mostly an unknown. There is reason to think the top 4 guys on the depth chart could be a strength of this defense, but there is also reason to think it could end up a weakness. If it turns out to be the former then our Defense could be quite stingy.

I think where we'll see the most pain is against rushing teams. Winfield was a beast against the run where the current roster in the secondary seems to be much more built to beat the pass. The Mike and NT situation also seem to speak to this, but Floyd may have something say on the latter.

dead_poet wrote: Agreed. My difficulty in evaluating is not having film to focus on if our receivers are adept at this or not. Did they quit on the play? Was their effort lackluster? Did they instead try blocking if they thought Ponder was going to run? Were they just incompetent in not working back to the ball? Were they trying hard but lacking the necessary athleticism or awareness of soft spots in coverage? Or was Ponder unable to see/hit them? Statistically, Ponder is not a good scrambler, though he is above average at throwing on the run. It makes me wonder why he's so poor when scrambling. Whatever the case, I just don't think the comparison between him and Tark has much merit. Hopefully he improves on this area (actually, hopefully the receiver can create consistent separation and the line can pass protect adequately enough so that he doesn't NEED to scramble much, if ever).

I can't find much game tape on last years season other than highlights. But I know people who have attended games live. And the number one thing I heard about I WRs was the inability to run effective routes and just the ability to get open downfield. It's easy to blame Ponder because the camera isn't pointed where we can see who all is getting open. Michael Jenkins can run routes but I heard he was too slow to get much separation. Devin Aromashodu couldn't get open. Stephon Burton can't get open. Percy and Rudolph may have been the only two who could get open really. And when Percy went down, Ruldolph was getting double covered I heard. So basically Ponder really didnt have too much to work with. If he scrambled im pretty sure he will wouldn't have found any open men.

mondry wrote:I'm far more concerned about the defense than the offense. Probably 10x more concerned actually, one has the league MVP, the other not so much.

Same here. There are question marks on the D, as DP pointed out, and they have me much more concerned than Ponder and the passing game.

Personally, I think the Vikings has some potentially big problems. For example, they've been slipping at stopping the run. As for the CBs, Cook can't stay healthy. If he gets hurt again, that puts some big time heat on Rhodes, Robinson, and the rest of the guys. And I'm not convinced that anything has been answered at MLB yet.

they said that ponder threw 3 interceptions during an ota session. 3? it will more of the same with this kid he has no vision whatsoever.

mosscarter wrote:they said that ponder threw 3 interceptions during an ota session. 3? it will more of the same with this kid he has no vision whatsoever.

That was during one of their blitz drills. I think the scenario was that the offense was backed up on their side of the field, 3rd & long, and Ponder had to get the ball off before a defender gets to him. Him and Cassel were throwing there throwing pics like crazy. That's not a big concern though. Its nice to put Ponder in the situation so he can get some sort of a feel if it happens to him in a real game. Im sure they will do more drills like that and he will improve.

JEC334 wrote: That was during one of their blitz drills. I think the scenario was that the offense was backed up on their side of the field, 3rd & long, and Ponder had to get the ball off before a defender gets to him. Him and Cassel were throwing there throwing pics like crazy. That's not a big concern though. Its nice to put Ponder in the situation so he can get some sort of a feel if it happens to him in a real game. Im sure they will do more drills like that and he will improve.

Context is everything.

i recently was looking at ponder's so called "brilliant stretch" at the end of last season. in two games against the rams and texans he failed to even break 200 yards. the truth is the team bailed him out, and the only really impressive game was the last one against green bay.

mosscarter wrote:i recently was looking at ponder's so called "brilliant stretch" at the end of last season. in two games against the rams and texans he failed to even break 200 yards. the truth is the team bailed him out, and the only really impressive game was the last one against green bay.

Yeah that whole "ended the season on a good run" has gotten as ridiculous as Tjoke "leading the Vikings to the playoffs". I think after it's repeated enough people just start to believe it.

i'm with you demi, i don't see it with this kid. maybe he'll prove us wrong, but i doubt it. i believe he had 9 games last year with under 200 yards passing, that is downright pathetic. and he had three games under 100 yards. without peterson we would have been 5-11 last year.

Really? Some of you don't like Ponder? I never would have guessed...

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