Vikings Message Board.Com

Mothman wrote:They do but they also have a relatively complete team. I don't know if Ponder can step up and play at a Super Bowl-winning level or not but I do know he can't do so without a good enough team around him and I suspect you'd agree with that. Flacco's offensive teammates enable him to be successful and the same goes for any QB. I'm convinced the best way to find out if Ponder is the man for the job or not is to address some of the other problems on the team and see how much difference that makes. Give him better protection, give him better receivers and if he doesn't raise his game with better tools to work with, that will be a very bad sign. If he does... maybe they'll be Super Bowl bound in a year or two.

Well said, Jim. I definitely agree that the Niners have a more complete team than the Vikings right now. In fact, I was greatly impressed with the balance demonstrated by both the Ravens and Niners. I may even be a little psyched out right now after witnessing how much horsepower and skill Flacco and Kaepernick brought to their respective teams during the Super Bowl. I couldn't help but wish the Vikings had a passing attack that could do that. Man, if either team had Adrian Peterson's running skills on top of their already strong passing games, they'd be scoring 50 points every game.

I also agree that Ponder absolutely must be insulated better, which means adding more talent around him. Heck, even if the Vikings did get another QB and he was up to the level of a Flacco or Kaepernick, the team would still need to upgrade their WR corps. I believe that Spielman will try to do that during the draft and free agency.

It is hard to compare Ponder to either of the QBs last night. I do not think he’ll ever be the runner Kaepernick can be, but I do think he can be just as effective as either of them throwing the ball. I’d say the key difference is what has been stated, and that is the quality of the skill players both QBs get to throw the ball to. (Also worthy of note is the presence of FA signings at WR for both teams. Boldin stands out for BAL, and Moss for the 49ers.)

I would not put either Flacco or Kaepernick in the same category of Brady, Brees, or Rogers. They can make solid throws, but they are not putting up throws like those other 3.

In both cases we saw very well balanced teams playing last night. In the cast of the tree elite QB I listed above, they all play on lopsided rosters. In that respect it shows that the rest of the mix does matter in the NFL, otherwise it would have been the Falcons vs. the Patriots last night.

The Vikings have gaps at LB and WR they need to fill. Something not being talked about is that we probably saw the two best LB corps in the NFL go at it last night. Yes, they both run 3-4 schemes, but it is something to think about for Frasier and Co, if we want a stronger defense, then this position group should be a priority for talent infusion. WR is also an obvious need for the offense, it has just been beaten to death already.

The reassuring thing to me is that last night we saw two very balanced teams go at it last night. Both teams are heavily invested in OL talent. They both run the ball well. They both play tough defense. They also can throw. We need to work on our passing game, but it shows that the Packers of the world are not the only way to win a big game, the model Frasier/ Spielman are pursuing is viable and that is reassuring. The concern now is talent acquisition and continued execution.

mansquatch wrote:It is hard to compare Ponder to either of the QBs last night. I do not think he’ll ever be the runner Kaepernick can be, but I do think he can be just as effective as either of them throwing the ball. I’d say the key difference is what has been stated, and that is the quality of the skill players both QBs get to throw the ball to. (Also worthy of note is the presence of FA signings at WR for both teams. Boldin stands out for BAL, and Moss for the 49ers.)

I would not put either Flacco or Kaepernick in the same category of Brady, Brees, or Rogers. They can make solid throws, but they are not putting up throws like those other 3.

Maybe not like Brady, Rodgers, or Brees but better than Ponder. I think Flacco and Kaepernick both played a strong game and showed consistency in their throws, decisions, and accuracy that we don't see often enough from Ponder at any time of the season. Not yet, anyway. Ponder is going to have to get much, much more consistent as a QB before he can have the kind of impact that Flacco and Kaepernick have had for their teams during the playoffs and in the Super Bowl.

I'm not trying to dump on Ponder. I like the guy and as a Vikings fan I want him to succeed. But I know what I saw in yesterday's game and Ponder isn't on the same level as Flacco or Kaepernick. Then again, I think the point is that the Vikings as a team don't have a passing attack that stacks up to the Ravens or Niners.

mansquatch wrote:In both cases we saw very well balanced teams playing last night. In the cast of the tree elite QB I listed above, they all play on lopsided rosters. In that respect it shows that the rest of the mix does matter in the NFL, otherwise it would have been the Falcons vs. the Patriots last night.

Yes, good point. I can't argue with that.

mansquatch wrote:The Vikings have gaps at LB and WR they need to fill. Something not being talked about is that we probably saw the two best LB corps in the NFL go at it last night. Yes, they both run 3-4 schemes, but it is something to think about for Frasier and Co, if we want a stronger defense, then this position group should be a priority for talent infusion. WR is also an obvious need for the offense, it has just been beaten to death already.

I was thinking the same thing about the LBs in the Super Bowl. The Vikings need to get quicker and better at LB in a big way if they want to have LB corps like that. Along with WR this is a big need.

mansquatch wrote:The reassuring thing to me is that last night we saw two very balanced teams go at it last night. Both teams are heavily invested in OL talent. They both run the ball well. They both play tough defense. They also can throw. We need to work on our passing game, but it shows that the Packers of the world are not the only way to win a big game, the model Frasier/ Spielman are pursuing is viable and that is reassuring. The concern now is talent acquisition and continued execution.

I agree.

That win was why the whole season was so frustrating.

At that point, the 49ers were the unquestioned new force to be reckoned with in the NFL. Then the Vikings spanked them really hard. So much so that sports analysts began questioning themselves (with THEIR egos?).

You felt in every single game that team could come out again and play if it really wanted to. And for awhile there, it was maddening when that team didn't come out like that.

losperros wrote: I was thinking the same thing about the LBs in the Super Bowl. The Vikings need to get quicker and better at LB in a big way if they want to have LB corps like that. Along with WR this is a big need.

I've been pitching for linebacker for awhile now. I still remember everyone's handle who flamed me for saying that I wouldn't be upset if the Vikes took one of the best linebackers in the draft in the first round.

When your best tacklers are in your backfield, your defense has problems no matter how great your line is. And the Vikings interior isn't all that awesome anymore. The Vikings have a guy who is completely inconsistent playing in the mike, so logically, MLB is the spot I'd zoom in on. A great MLB makes good-average DTs a lot better. I just feel that there's some good depth, some good sleepers, at WR this year that can be had in the second, third, and fourth rounds. Probably deeper than last year. I don't see a WR who blows me away that will be there when the Vikings pick in the first, but you never know.

losperros wrote:I was thinking the same thing about the LBs in the Super Bowl. The Vikings need to get quicker and better at LB in a big way if they want to have LB corps like that. Along with WR this is a big need.

Both Super Bowl teams had awesome linebacking corps. I don't think you you can overestimate how big of a need it is for the Vikings. They've been hobbling along now for years on one first round draft pick and a bunch of very average players.

Eli wrote: Both Super Bowl teams had awesome linebacking corps. I don't think you you can overestimate how big of a need it is for the Vikings. They've been hobbling along now for years on one first round draft pick and a bunch of very average players.

I would argue that aside from Ed McDaniel and Greenway the LB of the Vikings have been a weakspot for over a decade. Reember the Foge Fazio/ Ted Cottrell days? I shudder...

The one positive is there might a guy out there with the "stuff" the Vikings need that could slip. Many teams are running 3-4 style defenses now in order to confuse QBs.

mansquatch wrote: I would argue that aside from Ed McDaniel and Greenway the LB of the Vikings have been a weakspot for over a decade. Reember the Foge Fazio/ Ted Cottrell days? I shudder...

The one positive is there might a guy out there with the "stuff" the Vikings need that could slip. Many teams are running 3-4 style defenses now in order to confuse QBs.

I think the SEC is the best and most talented division in college ball. On that note, there are some superb LBs from the SEC entering the draft. They bring the kind of speed and tenacity to the position that the Vikings could really use.

mansquatch wrote:I would argue that aside from Ed McDaniel and Greenway the LB of the Vikings have been a weakspot for over a decade. Reember the Foge Fazio/ Ted Cottrell days? I shudder...

I hate to break it you but mcDaniel has been retired for over a decade already. Time flies, eh?

mansquatch wrote:I would argue that aside from Ed McDaniel and Greenway the LB of the Vikings have been a weakspot for over a decade.

I'd also add a healthy EJ Henderson into that mix. He may not have been an All-Pro, but he was pretty solid.

We need another Studwell or Blair for sure.

dead_poet wrote: I'd also add a healthy EJ Henderson into that mix. He may not have been an All-Pro, but he was pretty solid.

I agree. Before injuries chipped away at his effectiveness, he was playing at a high level. Ben Leber played well for a couple of years too so I don't necessarily agree with the idea that :LB has been a weak spot for over a decade. However, it's definitely a weak spot now and, like WR, an area that Spielman must address this offseason.

Let me add to my point. At no point in the past decade have we had a guy who an offense feared at this position. JA is a guy an offense fears. KWill has his moments as well. At LB we've had guys who are average to good, but never great. Greenway approaches great, but always seems to be on the cusp.

This defensive scheme is built on the Mike being a monster. We do not have our Brooks or Urlacher. We have a placeholder by the name of Brinkley. The fact is our alignment is designed such that the Mike can be all over place making plays. We need a guy who can flourish in such a system, right now we have a guy who sort of does his job. (His Butt Cheek has been a playmaker at times...)

This is why I think this position deserves attention.

mansquatch wrote:Let me add to my point. At no point in the past decade have we had a guy who an offense feared at this position. JA is a guy an offense fears. KWill has his moments as well. At LB we've had guys who are average to good, but never great. Greenway approaches great, but always seems to be on the cusp.

You've kind of described the Vikings history at LB. I don't know if they've had a great LB, the kind of player offenses fear and game plan to handle, since Matt Blair. They've had some really good LBs like Studwell, McDaniel, Del Rio, Greenway, and so on but rarely a great, elite linebacker.

This defensive scheme is built on the Mike being a monster. We do not have our Brooks or Urlacher. We have a placeholder by the name of Brinkley. The fact is our alignment is designed such that the Mike can be all over place making plays. We need a guy who can flourish in such a system, right now we have a guy who sort of does his job. (His Butt Cheek has been a playmaker at times...)

This is why I think this position deserves attention.

It absolutely deserves attention and it doesn't seem like there's an urgency to re-sign Brinkley so I suspect the Vikings feel the same way. If they get a chance to select one of the top MLB prospects in this draft, I expect it to happen (unless they find a new solution via free agency—I'm not sure who will be available that plays MLB).

I won't be surprised if Brinkley is re-signed but I will be surprised if he's an unchallenged starter.

Mothman wrote:(unless they find a new solution via free agency—I'm not sure who will be available that plays MLB).

Some notables...

Dannell Ellerbe - LB - Ravens

Impending free agent ILB Dannell Ellerbe would prefer to re-sign with the Ravens, but he acknowledges that "it's a business."

It's the same stock answer Ellerbe gave after the regular season. "I would love to be here," Ellerbe said. "Baltimore is where I got my start, but it's not up to me. It's out of my control. The Ravens know how I feel. I hope we can work something out." Baltimore is expected to make Ellerbe a priority this offseason, as he's the heir apparent to Ray Lewis at inside 'backer.
Source: Baltimore Sun

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Brad Jones - LB - Packers

The Packers would like to re-sign impending free agent ILB Brad Jones.

Jones started 12 games, including the playoffs, and graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 10 inside linebacker during the regular season. While Jones was exposed in the playoff loss to the 49ers, so was the rest of the Packers' defense. In an ideal world, the Packers would cut A.J. Hawk, and Jones would compete with D.J. Smith to start next to Desmond Bishop.

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Bradie James - LB - Texans

Rus wrote:I've been pitching for linebacker for awhile now. I still remember everyone's handle who flamed me for saying that I wouldn't be upset if the Vikes took one of the best linebackers in the draft in the first round.

Are you talking about this year's draft or last year? This year quite a number of people have made a case for drafting a LB. Last year, I don't really see anyone worth the #3 pick. A trade down to get Kuechly maybe, but I'd still prefer Kalil.