Vikings Message Board.Com

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
We see things differently. I see nothing from Fraizer that makes me thankful hes our guy and will be back next year. Have you listened to his press conferences? Sounds like hes talking to high scgool kids, not grown men. I want to see him in the official face sometimes after bad calls. An emotionless roboot on the sideless, that doesnt even call plays, or Time outs at the right time, or manage the clock just isnt my cup of tea. Now if this team shows some improvement over the next few weeks and we end up in the playoffs, I may change my mind. But him sticking with Ponder like he stuck with McNabb isnt what I call good coaching.

Ok, so you do not like his demeanor. That seems pretty irrelevant, since the players are obviously buying in and how he is perceived by the fans really means little. But, it's understandable to have a preference as a fan.

And while you point out some game management issues, it seems the real problem you have is that he has not developed a quality QB. Yet, if you look at almost every position, there has been solid and steady improvement in the level of play. And that does not occur in a vacuum. There are some exciting and positive things happening with the development of this team, and I believe much of it has to do with both Spielman's eye for talent and Frazier's leadership. Is it perfect? No. But is it headed in the right direction? Obviously.

And I disagree that any coach could have doubled the win total from last year to this. Look at teams like the Jets, who have a wealth of talent but implode. And here are the Vikings, with young talent and lacking a compelling leader at QB and they have exceeded expectations. To me, that points obviously to quality coaching.

Yet, if you look at almost every position, there has been solid and steady improvement in the level of play. And that does not occur in a vacuum. There are some exciting and positive things happening with the development of this team,

Yes, on defense. Where is ANY development on offense? Quarterback? Nope. Guards? Nope? Receivers? Nope.

Need some new coaching on offense is what we need. 7th round MLB, undrafted WLB, 4th round left end, 4th rounder in Griffen, Robinson/Jefferson starting at corner. Where is any player development on offense? Sullivan is about it. Otherwise you've got a few high round draft picks and nothing else. Where's the coaching to improve these guys? Making the offense work with what they have (HA! Like you can make an offense work with Ponder).

He needs another year, with a new OC, and a new QB...

Demi wrote: Yes, on defense. Where is ANY development on offense? Quarterback? Nope. Guards? Nope? Receivers? Nope.

Need some new coaching on offense is what we need. 7th round MLB, undrafted WLB, 4th round left end, 4th rounder in Griffen, Robinson/Jefferson starting at corner. Where is any player development on offense? Sullivan is about it. Otherwise you've got a few high round draft picks and nothing else. Where's the coaching to improve these guys? Making the offense work with what they have (HA! Like you can make an offense work with Ponder).

He needs another year, with a new OC, and a new QB...

Wait... you have not seen any substantial improvement on the OL, other than Sullivan? Really?? It has been more than just Kalil being a force. Loadholt has improved, the depth along the OL is much improved thanks to some focused coaching and use of personnel.

How about the FB situation? That has been one of the major bright spots this season. Rudolph (when healthy) has been quite good. Harvin was having an All-Pro season before he went down. And, while you scoff at the idea of the OC or gameplan having any effect on AD's ability to rush, his success does not occur simply because he is a force of nature. The OL is blocking better, the addition of a REAL FB has been invaluable, and he's being used better as the season has progressed.

Listen, this has been a frustrating season, but this is not a situation in which a scorched earth policy regarding coaching will yield better results.

his success does not occur simply because he is a force of nature.

It doesn't? Then how the heck has he done it since the day he was drafted regardless of everything else around him? New oline, new coaching staffs, everything changes, he still produces.

I'm talking development not just players playing well. We've got a ton of talent in terms of early round picks. They spent years trying to develop a fullback, they sign Felton and he's immediately an upgrade over everyone else they've tried there since before Childress even showed up. Our guards are terrible. Our receivers are bad. Neither are showing any improvement. Our QB is getting worse. Loadholt was more than solid his rookie year it's not like he was some bum they molded into a force at right tackle. Sullivan is about the only guy on offense you can say improved significantly. You've got overachievers all over the place on defense.

I am fine with Frazier being the coach. However, I will not stand for another season with Bill Musgrave as the offense coordinator. If I had to choose between Ponder as the QB next year or Bill Musgrave as the offensive coordinator I would take Ponder. That is very hard to say with a straight face.

I don't think its correct to say that ponder will improve. Every game it seems like he's getting worse and worse. I think he is losing confidence in himself, which is a huge problem. He should be over the rookie mistakes by now, but it seems like he's still making so many of them. I don't mind seeing him playing at least a few games in the next season, but we need a backup plan. If we see that ponder is still a complete bust next year, we don't want to be stuck with him the whole year. I want to see if he can shake off some of those mistakes over the offseason and come back a whole new player. And by next year, we may even have a couple great wide recievers to have him throw to. The biggest thing ponder needs to fix is his accuracy downfield. It is absolutely horrific and deep passes are a huge part of the game.

In conclusion, im not completely giving up on this kid. Yet...

I just hope Wilf let's it play out another year. What's Frazier going to leave if he isn't extended now? He's not good enough to require they lock him up. Let him play out the final year and then if they think he's done enough give him a three year deal. Don't blunder like they did with Childress the Favre year instead of letting him play out the final year on his deal...

All you folks drinking the Frasier Kool-Aid and trying to pass all the offensive failures off on Musgrave....A Head Coach is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the performance/decisions of his subordinates. Frasier ENDORSES Musgrave. Frasier reviews the offensive plans before every game. So don't try to convince anyone that somehow Frasier has some better ideas that just don't make it past the control of Musgrave.......

Frazier said "we want to run the ball, stop the run, and play good special teams." I was skeptical but whatever. Then he said, "we can run on 8 in the box." Personally I thought that was a horrible idea!

Here we are, 7-6 compared to 3-13, with talk about Adrian breaking the rushing record all while Ponder for all intents and purposes has been a dud.

Here's the thing, outside of QB I'm seeing major improvement across the board, but QB will never be coached to Peyton Manning level, the guy either is, or isn't. It's not realistic to think the coaches should have a guy like Ponder up to that level. Just like Belechik sucked in cleaveland and got fired, but looks amazing with Tom Brady playing QB for him.

Offensive woes? Not sure I really agree with that, it's been about what I've expected with the run game doing quite a bit better than I expected. Without Harvin there is no doubt we have the worst WR's in the league, and Ponder has been below average for most of the season. Given those 2 factors, 31 of the other 32 teams would be lucky to win 3 games, we still have a small shot at the playoffs heh.

All in all, the dude has earned another year, it's not even a question.

With another win in 2012, the #Vikings will match their biggest jump in win totals from one season to the next.

From 1997 to 1998, the #Vikings increased their win total by 6 wins (9-7 to 15-1).

Minnesota Vikings on Twitter

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What's more impressive about this is the Vikings have done it without adding a Randy Moss talent and starting so many rookies. I don't see how this isn't attributed, at least in part, to our coach & GM.

dead_poet wrote: Minnesota Vikings on Twitter

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What's more impressive about this is the Vikings have done it without adding a Randy Moss talent and starting so many rookies. I don't see how this isn't attributed, at least in part, to our coach & GM.

This is in essence my take on the situation. The general improvement of the roster and their record show the success. Like or hate Frasier and Co you cannot argue with going from 3-13 to at least 8-8 in a single season.

It doesn't really matter though. No coach is called a genius until he gets lucky enough to have a pro bowl QB on the roster. Not sure how those two things are related, but that is the current popular reality of the NFL.

Without Childress taking the chance (other teams passed him up) on AD in the draft, Fraizer could be winnless this year. Just sayin...

wow really? thats your angle? could of this, could of that...he has turned this team around and last year we lost 6 or 7 games by 6 points or less. he is doing a real good job thus far.

I wanted to see the team get to .500 and he's done that. I still have my reservations about Frazier but he's done enough this year to warrant another year.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: No I expected 6 wins this season, and we have 7. We may get more if Texas and GB clinch their spots before we play them. And yes a expect a HC in his 3rd year to at least double the worst record in vikings history. Even Childress could do that, and more right? And he's the idiot responisble for all of Fraizers problems right?

We see things differently. I see nothing from Fraizer that makes me thankful hes our guy and will be back next year. Have you listened to his press conferences? Sounds like hes talking to high scgool kids, not grown men. I want to see him in the official face sometimes after bad calls. An emotionless roboot on the sideless, that doesnt even call plays, or Time outs at the right time, or manage the clock just isnt my cup of tea. Now if this team shows some improvement over the next few weeks and we end up in the playoffs, I may change my mind. But him sticking with Ponder like he stuck with McNabb isnt what I call good coaching.

3rd year HEAD COACH??? HE had one year as an interim coach after what 6 games? Now he was considered head coach this year? Emotionless robot cool doesnt matter what you think of him only the players and the results he gets on the field! Sticking with Ponder gives him confidence we are saying confidence is his issue right now! Okay lets toy around with an unstable unconfident quarterback! Think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!